MINI2

Froggie · Sep 18th, 2003, 11:56 PM

My 5 speed Cooper is in for service to take a look at the stumble and they gave me a CVT loaner. The car only has about 1200 miles on it and it drives like CRAP!!! The trnasmissionseems to moan, I tried the sport shifting and it also sucks. Maybe this car was refused by the owner or something and maybe that's wht it's a loaner now, but whatever the reason ...I don't know. I just can't wait to get my 5 speed back. Even with it's occassion stumble. It feels like a completely different car.

Sejanus · Sep 19th, 2003, 02:14 AM

I love my CVT. It takes a little while to learn how to take full advantage of its features, but then that's part of the fun. I've been on a number of MINI runs on twistie roads and I've never had nor have I ever seen a CVT have any trouble keeping up with the other cars. You have to take SpyCar with a grain of salt, if he had his way the CVT wouldn't even be built. In any case a test drive of all options would be the best way to go.

Spy Car · Sep 19th, 2003, 02:38 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Sejanus

You have to take SpyCar with a grain of salt, if he had his way the CVT wouldn't even be built. In any case a test drive of all options would be the best way to go.

Hey, I agree a test drive of all options is a good idea.

And I'm also glad the Cooper comes with a CVT. I just can't see living at the gateway to some of the greatest driving roads in the world and outfitting a car with any form of "automatic".

Let's see what the good doctor decides. Peace

Spy Car · Sep 19th, 2003, 03:17 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Sejanus

You have to take SpyCar with a grain of salt, if he had his way the CVT wouldn't even be built. In any case a test drive of all options would be the best way to go.

Hey, I agree a test drive of all options is a good idea.

And I'm also glad the Cooper comes with a CVT. I just can't see living at the gateway to some of the greatest driving roads in the world and outfitting a car with any form of "automatic".

Let's see what the good doctor decides. Peace

Sejanus · Sep 19th, 2003, 05:01 AM

There was supposed to be a grinning smilie after the "wouldn't even be built" crack, but there aren't any on the quick reply. Still true though. : )

CooperS4us · Sep 19th, 2003, 05:14 AM

While I respect Spy's points of view, I am still having a hard time taking most of his anti-CVT rethoric seriously. To this day, for some reason, he continues to refuse to take out a Cooper CVT for a spin. Until Spy does so, any comments he happens to produce about this car must be taken with a heavy dosage of salt.

nonsequitur · Sep 19th, 2003, 03:40 PM

One of the attributes of this Forum that I like is the full range of opinion, "centered" by the wonderful common sense and careful thought of so many who post here.

Everyone is contributing, each has their own experiences, and all will have some influence on the opinion you will forrm on your own.

Just make sure you form your own opinion, don't just take what we say as gospel.

So ... try out the cars!; mash the throttle, twist the steering, sqeeeeze on the brakes, push the buttons, and laugh or smile together as you experience a MINI. A car, in the modern era, is as much an emotional fit as it is any of the other roles as transportation, image, enjoyment, etc.

This is especially true of a spouse (male or female). If you are the one asking detailed questtions, then your spouse is the one reacting to how well the radio buttons operate, or if the seat is too short under the legs. All this stuff is real important, so give it the time and attention it deserves.

The Forum can help make you informed. Just think how difficult this was only 20 years ago.

We (me, young bride, impressionable 15yr old son) simply love our MINI (and Mini) Coopers (CVT and old S). Each has a clear role, and we've found that the feature choices have worked well for us. The Cooper CVT is bulletproof and lots and lots of fun.

drgrey · Sep 19th, 2003, 03:56 PM

Thanks, Johnewald, that's good advice. On another topic..Where in Puget Sound? We're cruising sailors and do a bareboat charter out of Anacortes almost every summer. You live in a terrific area!

Spy Car · Sep 19th, 2003, 10:59 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by CooperS4us

While I respect Spy's points of view, I am still having a hard time taking most of his anti-CVT rethoric seriously....any comments he happens to produce about this car must be taken with a heavy dosage of salt.

Man! You and Seganus are liable to get high blood pressure from all that salt

I not sure I've engaged in "anti-CVT rethoric", have I?

It just seems to me that drgrey is looking from an alternate to his luxerious but in his words "boring" Lexus, if that's his goal, I feel a 6 speed manual MCS might be a better alternative than a CVT Cooper. This way he gets a proper "sportscar" and not a compromised simulated autoshifter. There maybe that qualifies as "anti-CVT rethoric".

To my taste a big part of a car not "being boring" is the ability to work a cluth and mesh my own gears....here opinions vary. Glad CVT owners enjoy their cars.

Hey CooperS4us, your CooperS arrives soon right?

Let us know how it compares with the CVT, ok?

Sejanus · Sep 19th, 2003, 11:41 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Spy Car

It just seems to me that drgrey is looking from an alternate to his luxerious but in his words "boring" Lexus, if that's his goal, I feel a 6 speed manual MCS might be a better alternative than a CVT Cooper. This way he gets a proper "sportscar" and not a compromised simulated autoshifter. There maybe that qualifies as "anti-CVT rethoric".

Perhaps, but if he gets a CVT he can still have a lot of fun, maybe as much fun (after all how would you know Salt Car?

), and enjoy enhanced domestic tranquility, something that is never to be undervalued.

Spy Car · Sep 20th, 2003, 12:52 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Sejanus

Perhaps, but if he gets a CVT he can still have a lot of fun, maybe as much fun (after all how would you know Salt Car?

), and enjoy enhanced domestic tranquility, something that is never to be undervalued.

As to point two. Mrsdrgey has no interest in a MINI, with or without CVT. If this was a car she was aching to drive (and she was unwilling to learn to drive a manual) the CVT Cooper might be a reasonable compromise. But in this case it's not. His is going to be his car, and I think a man who once owned a 911 might be happier in a Manual MCS than a CVT Cooper. Maybe I'm wrong, he should decide. But I think a happy husband helps make for a happy home.

As to point one, my Morton Salt-Subsitute loving friend, I find the "how would you know Salt Car?

" just a little funny, since last I recall you never drove a 6 speed Cooper S, is that right?

For me I'll take honest to god Sea Salt over Potassium Chloride every time

God I miss you guys...this is just like the old days

drgrey · Sep 20th, 2003, 03:56 PM

All the comments here are valuable-glad my subject is stimulating so much discussion. I'll be driving both an S and a CVT in the next little while and will report my Newbie's assesment of each-and my decision. Thanks for all the input.

Sejanus · Sep 20th, 2003, 06:03 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Spy Car

As to point one, my Morton Salt-Subsitute loving friend, I find the "how would you know Salt Car?

" just a little funny, since last I recall you never drove a 6 speed Cooper S, is that right?

True, I knew what I wanted going in, but I have driven manual transmissions. Have you ever driven a CVT of any type? It isn't an automatic after all. Must find the Morton's before I read your answer.

drgrey · Sep 20th, 2003, 10:03 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Sejanus

True, I knew what I wanted going in, but I have driven manual transmissions. Have you ever driven a CVT of any type? It isn't an automatic after all. Must find the Morton's before I read your answer.

That's an interesting statement. Do you mean it's a different type of auto or another type of trans altogether? Would someone who only knew conventional automatic transmissions have a normal or lengthy learning curve? Would someone who wanted more control than you get with an auto find it in a CVT? I've heard that the engine RPMs seem excessive re the road speed and that takes some getting used to. Has that been your experience?

Spy Car · Sep 21st, 2003, 12:13 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Sejanus

True, I knew what I wanted going in, but I have driven manual transmissions. Have you ever driven a CVT of any type? It isn't an automatic after all.

Driven a Saturn Vue with a CVT. Won't dare compare it to a MINI, but it sure felt like an automatic to me.

Glad you like it better than a standard slush box and that MINI is making something for the "non-manual crowd".

But like you I knew what I wanted in a car .......and that was a 6 speed and a clutch. To each their own I guess.

CooperS4us · Sep 21st, 2003, 07:15 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Spy Car

Driven a Saturn Vue with a CVT. Won't dare compare it to a MINI, but it sure felt like an automatic to me.

Glad you like it better than a standard slush box and that MINI is making something for the "non-manual crowd".

But like you I knew what I wanted in a car .......and that was a 6 speed and a clutch. To each their own I guess.

Spy, friend, you will continue to get a lot of flak from us "CVT" fans until you get your behind inside a Cooper CVT and give a *detailed* test drive report.

You drove a (gasp!) Saturn CVT but you won't be caught dead on a Cooper CVT?

Reagrding my '04 MCS, yep it is coming this week and I am really excited about it. Nothing like having an open mind when it comes to these cars...a CVT and a MCS in my driveway! Very lucky guy indeed!.

Sejanus · Sep 21st, 2003, 07:37 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by drgrey

That's an interesting statement. Do you mean it's a different type of auto or another type of trans altogether? Would someone who only knew conventional automatic transmissions have a normal or lengthy learning curve? Would someone who wanted more control than you get with an auto find it in a CVT? I've heard that the engine RPMs seem excessive re the road speed and that takes some getting used to. Has that been your experience?

Technically (which has never been my strong suit) it is another type of transmission altogether. However, in the Drive mode it is very similar to any automatic you have ever been in. The same is essentially true in Sports Mode, it just delivers a bit more power. In addition though the CVT also has six simulated gears which can be switched up and down manually as well as switching in and out of Drive and Sports Mode at will. I've had mine for a bit over a year and I'm still experimenting with different ways to use all these options fully, but there isn't a learning curve for a new driver in the way there might be for someone who was driving their first manual transmission. You absolutely get more control than with a normal automatic transmission. I've never felt that the RPMs were excessive, though I suppose it could depend on how you are using the transmission.

Sejanus · Sep 21st, 2003, 07:40 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Spy Car

Driven a Saturn Vue with a CVT. Won't dare compare it to a MINI, but it sure felt like an automatic to me.

Interesting. Does the Saturn's CVT have anything like the steptronic mode or is it just used as a presumably more efficient automatic? If it does have a steptronic-like feature did you try it out?

Quote: Originally Posted by Spy Car

But like you I knew what I wanted in a car .......and that was a 6 speed and a clutch. To each their own I guess.

Wasn't that my whole point in the CVT MCS debate?

Spy Car · Sep 22nd, 2003, 08:13 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by CooperS4us

Spy, friend, you will continue to get a lot of flak from us "CVT" fans until you get your behind inside a Cooper CVT and give a *detailed* test drive report.

You drove a (gasp!) Saturn CVT but you won't be caught dead on a Cooper CVT?

Only got to drive a Vue because an old friend bought one

.

Only drove it a couple of blocks because I was curious about the CVT. My friend actually likes the Vue, but is quite upset with himself for not buying a manual. He wanted his daughter to be able to drive the vehicle, but it turns out she bought (and learned to drive) a manual for her first car and now snubs the "auto" in the Vue (you know how snotty and elitist us manual drivers can be

) So now he feels "stuck" with a transmission he would rather not have. As in the MINI the CVT saps power and costs him gas mileage (and is boring to him).

Not at all true that I wouldn't be caught dead in a CVT. Nothing I would enjoy more (ok maybe a slight overstatment) than taking a CVT out for a run in the canyons behind drgrey's place for a proper test.

It is quite true I would never own one, as working a clutch is a joyous part of the driving experience for yours truely. The CVT, no matter how advanced it may or may not be, removes an essential part of the driving equation from my perspective (and unsurprisingly, I think I'm right

)

But believe me I understand I'm in a minority of the general car buying public in the USA. But that's part of the fun of keeping the MCS "auto-free", this way the car remains the preserve of those who value "motoring" over convenience. Didn't MINI create the car to fill a gap for a brother and sisterhood of drivers who wanted an alternative from luxurious but spiritually life numbing cars like Lexus, and those damn "auto transmissions"? I think so.

Quote: Originally Posted by CooperS4us

Reagrding my '04 MCS, yep it is coming this week and I am really excited about it. Nothing like having an open mind when it comes to these cars...a CVT and a MCS in my driveway! Very lucky guy indeed!.

Yes you are a lucky guy. Hope the week flys by...and the delivery goes very smoothy.

For now you will have to be the man who compares the two. Look forward to hearing all about it.

Spy Car · Sep 22nd, 2003, 08:16 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Sejanus

Wasn't that my whole point in the CVT MCS debate?

You mean this isn't the CVT MCS debate?

Sep 19th, 2003, 03:40 PM	#27 (permalink)
nonsequitur Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Seattle area, WA Local Time: 04:01 AM Posts: 1,466 Offline	One of the attributes of this Forum that I like is the full range of opinion, "centered" by the wonderful common sense and careful thought of so many who post here. Everyone is contributing, each has their own experiences, and all will have some influence on the opinion you will forrm on your own. Just make sure you form your own opinion, don't just take what we say as gospel. So ... try out the cars!; mash the throttle, twist the steering, sqeeeeze on the brakes, push the buttons, and laugh or smile together as you experience a MINI. A car, in the modern era, is as much an emotional fit as it is any of the other roles as transportation, image, enjoyment, etc. This is especially true of a spouse (male or female). If you are the one asking detailed questtions, then your spouse is the one reacting to how well the radio buttons operate, or if the seat is too short under the legs. All this stuff is real important, so give it the time and attention it deserves. The Forum can help make you informed. Just think how difficult this was only 20 years ago. We (me, young bride, impressionable 15yr old son) simply love our MINI (and Mini) Coopers (CVT and old S). Each has a clear role, and we've found that the feature choices have worked well for us. The Cooper CVT is bulletproof and lots and lots of fun. '02 MINI Cooper CVT (prod. date: 6/12/2002; Indi Blue/Black roof, R-81 7-hole 15x5.5" or NZO 16x6.5") '67 Austin Cooper S 1275 Mk1 (build date: 6/26/1967; Tartan Red/Black Roof, Minilite 10x4.5" or 10x6.0")

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Sep 18th, 2003, 11:56 PM	#21
Froggie MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Westchester County, New York Local Time: 06:01 AM Posts: 83 Offline	My 5 speed Cooper is in for service to take a look at the stumble and they gave me a CVT loaner. The car only has about 1200 miles on it and it drives like CRAP!!! The trnasmissionseems to moan, I tried the sport shifting and it also sucks. Maybe this car was refused by the owner or something and maybe that's wht it's a loaner now, but whatever the reason ...I don't know. I just can't wait to get my 5 speed back. Even with it's occassion stumble. It feels like a completely different car.

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Sep 19th, 2003, 02:14 AM	#22 (permalink)
Sejanus Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: West Sacramento Local Time: 04:01 AM Posts: 4,231 Offline	I love my CVT. It takes a little while to learn how to take full advantage of its features, but then that's part of the fun. I've been on a number of MINI runs on twistie roads and I've never had nor have I ever seen a CVT have any trouble keeping up with the other cars. You have to take SpyCar with a grain of salt, if he had his way the CVT wouldn't even be built. In any case a test drive of all options would be the best way to go.

Sep 19th, 2003, 02:38 AM	#23 (permalink)
Spy Car I miss Ruthie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of the Angels Local Time: 04:01 AM Posts: 6,359 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Sejanus You have to take SpyCar with a grain of salt, if he had his way the CVT wouldn't even be built. In any case a test drive of all options would be the best way to go. Hey, I agree a test drive of all options is a good idea. And I'm also glad the Cooper comes with a CVT. I just can't see living at the gateway to some of the greatest driving roads in the world and outfitting a car with any form of "automatic". Let's see what the good doctor decides. Peace

Sep 19th, 2003, 03:17 AM	#24 (permalink)
Spy Car I miss Ruthie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of the Angels Local Time: 04:01 AM Posts: 6,359 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Sejanus You have to take SpyCar with a grain of salt, if he had his way the CVT wouldn't even be built. In any case a test drive of all options would be the best way to go. Hey, I agree a test drive of all options is a good idea. And I'm also glad the Cooper comes with a CVT. I just can't see living at the gateway to some of the greatest driving roads in the world and outfitting a car with any form of "automatic". Let's see what the good doctor decides. Peace

Sep 19th, 2003, 05:01 AM	#25 (permalink)
Sejanus Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: West Sacramento Local Time: 04:01 AM Posts: 4,231 Offline	There was supposed to be a grinning smilie after the "wouldn't even be built" crack, but there aren't any on the quick reply. Still true though. : )

Sep 19th, 2003, 05:14 AM	#26 (permalink)
CooperS4us MINI2 Master Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: South Florida Local Time: 07:01 AM Posts: 951 Offline	While I respect Spy's points of view, I am still having a hard time taking most of his anti-CVT rethoric seriously. To this day, for some reason, he continues to refuse to take out a Cooper CVT for a spin. Until Spy does so, any comments he happens to produce about this car must be taken with a heavy dosage of salt.

Sep 19th, 2003, 03:56 PM	#28 (permalink)
drgrey MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Westlake Village, Ca Local Time: 06:01 AM Posts: 35 Offline	Thanks, Johnewald, that's good advice. On another topic..Where in Puget Sound? We're cruising sailors and do a bareboat charter out of Anacortes almost every summer. You live in a terrific area!

Sep 19th, 2003, 10:59 PM	#29 (permalink)
Spy Car I miss Ruthie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of the Angels Local Time: 04:01 AM Posts: 6,359 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by CooperS4us While I respect Spy's points of view, I am still having a hard time taking most of his anti-CVT rethoric seriously....any comments he happens to produce about this car must be taken with a heavy dosage of salt. Man! You and Seganus are liable to get high blood pressure from all that salt I not sure I've engaged in "anti-CVT rethoric", have I? It just seems to me that drgrey is looking from an alternate to his luxerious but in his words "boring" Lexus, if that's his goal, I feel a 6 speed manual MCS might be a better alternative than a CVT Cooper. This way he gets a proper "sportscar" and not a compromised simulated autoshifter. There maybe that qualifies as "anti-CVT rethoric". To my taste a big part of a car not "being boring" is the ability to work a cluth and mesh my own gears....here opinions vary. Glad CVT owners enjoy their cars. Hey CooperS4us, your CooperS arrives soon right? Let us know how it compares with the CVT, ok?

Sep 19th, 2003, 11:41 PM	#30 (permalink)
Sejanus Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: West Sacramento Local Time: 04:01 AM Posts: 4,231 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Spy Car It just seems to me that drgrey is looking from an alternate to his luxerious but in his words "boring" Lexus, if that's his goal, I feel a 6 speed manual MCS might be a better alternative than a CVT Cooper. This way he gets a proper "sportscar" and not a compromised simulated autoshifter. There maybe that qualifies as "anti-CVT rethoric". Perhaps, but if he gets a CVT he can still have a lot of fun, maybe as much fun (after all how would you know Salt Car? ), and enjoy enhanced domestic tranquility, something that is never to be undervalued.

Sep 20th, 2003, 12:52 AM	#31 (permalink)
Spy Car I miss Ruthie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of the Angels Local Time: 04:01 AM Posts: 6,359 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Sejanus Perhaps, but if he gets a CVT he can still have a lot of fun, maybe as much fun (after all how would you know Salt Car? ), and enjoy enhanced domestic tranquility, something that is never to be undervalued. As to point two. Mrsdrgey has no interest in a MINI, with or without CVT. If this was a car she was aching to drive (and she was unwilling to learn to drive a manual) the CVT Cooper might be a reasonable compromise. But in this case it's not. His is going to be his car, and I think a man who once owned a 911 might be happier in a Manual MCS than a CVT Cooper. Maybe I'm wrong, he should decide. But I think a happy husband helps make for a happy home. As to point one, my Morton Salt-Subsitute loving friend, I find the "how would you know Salt Car? " just a little funny, since last I recall you never drove a 6 speed Cooper S, is that right? For me I'll take honest to god Sea Salt over Potassium Chloride every time God I miss you guys...this is just like the old days

Sep 20th, 2003, 03:56 PM	#32 (permalink)
drgrey MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Westlake Village, Ca Local Time: 06:01 AM Posts: 35 Offline	All the comments here are valuable-glad my subject is stimulating so much discussion. I'll be driving both an S and a CVT in the next little while and will report my Newbie's assesment of each-and my decision. Thanks for all the input.

Sep 20th, 2003, 06:03 PM	#33 (permalink)
Sejanus Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: West Sacramento Local Time: 04:01 AM Posts: 4,231 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Spy Car As to point one, my Morton Salt-Subsitute loving friend, I find the "how would you know Salt Car? " just a little funny, since last I recall you never drove a 6 speed Cooper S, is that right? True, I knew what I wanted going in, but I have driven manual transmissions. Have you ever driven a CVT of any type? It isn't an automatic after all. Must find the Morton's before I read your answer.

Sep 20th, 2003, 10:03 PM	#34 (permalink)
drgrey MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Westlake Village, Ca Local Time: 06:01 AM Posts: 35 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Sejanus True, I knew what I wanted going in, but I have driven manual transmissions. Have you ever driven a CVT of any type? It isn't an automatic after all. Must find the Morton's before I read your answer. That's an interesting statement. Do you mean it's a different type of auto or another type of trans altogether? Would someone who only knew conventional automatic transmissions have a normal or lengthy learning curve? Would someone who wanted more control than you get with an auto find it in a CVT? I've heard that the engine RPMs seem excessive re the road speed and that takes some getting used to. Has that been your experience?

Sep 21st, 2003, 12:13 AM	#35 (permalink)
Spy Car I miss Ruthie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of the Angels Local Time: 04:01 AM Posts: 6,359 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Sejanus True, I knew what I wanted going in, but I have driven manual transmissions. Have you ever driven a CVT of any type? It isn't an automatic after all. Driven a Saturn Vue with a CVT. Won't dare compare it to a MINI, but it sure felt like an automatic to me. Glad you like it better than a standard slush box and that MINI is making something for the "non-manual crowd". But like you I knew what I wanted in a car .......and that was a 6 speed and a clutch. To each their own I guess.

Sep 21st, 2003, 07:15 AM	#36 (permalink)
CooperS4us MINI2 Master Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: South Florida Local Time: 07:01 AM Posts: 951 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Spy Car Driven a Saturn Vue with a CVT. Won't dare compare it to a MINI, but it sure felt like an automatic to me. Glad you like it better than a standard slush box and that MINI is making something for the "non-manual crowd". But like you I knew what I wanted in a car .......and that was a 6 speed and a clutch. To each their own I guess. Spy, friend, you will continue to get a lot of flak from us "CVT" fans until you get your behind inside a Cooper CVT and give a detailed test drive report. You drove a (gasp!) Saturn CVT but you won't be caught dead on a Cooper CVT? Reagrding my '04 MCS, yep it is coming this week and I am really excited about it. Nothing like having an open mind when it comes to these cars...a CVT and a MCS in my driveway! Very lucky guy indeed!.

Sep 21st, 2003, 07:37 AM	#37 (permalink)
Sejanus Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: West Sacramento Local Time: 04:01 AM Posts: 4,231 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by drgrey That's an interesting statement. Do you mean it's a different type of auto or another type of trans altogether? Would someone who only knew conventional automatic transmissions have a normal or lengthy learning curve? Would someone who wanted more control than you get with an auto find it in a CVT? I've heard that the engine RPMs seem excessive re the road speed and that takes some getting used to. Has that been your experience? Technically (which has never been my strong suit) it is another type of transmission altogether. However, in the Drive mode it is very similar to any automatic you have ever been in. The same is essentially true in Sports Mode, it just delivers a bit more power. In addition though the CVT also has six simulated gears which can be switched up and down manually as well as switching in and out of Drive and Sports Mode at will. I've had mine for a bit over a year and I'm still experimenting with different ways to use all these options fully, but there isn't a learning curve for a new driver in the way there might be for someone who was driving their first manual transmission. You absolutely get more control than with a normal automatic transmission. I've never felt that the RPMs were excessive, though I suppose it could depend on how you are using the transmission.

Sep 21st, 2003, 07:40 AM	#38 (permalink)
Sejanus Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: West Sacramento Local Time: 04:01 AM Posts: 4,231 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Spy Car Driven a Saturn Vue with a CVT. Won't dare compare it to a MINI, but it sure felt like an automatic to me. Interesting. Does the Saturn's CVT have anything like the steptronic mode or is it just used as a presumably more efficient automatic? If it does have a steptronic-like feature did you try it out? Quote: Originally Posted by Spy Car But like you I knew what I wanted in a car .......and that was a 6 speed and a clutch. To each their own I guess. Wasn't that my whole point in the CVT MCS debate?

Sep 22nd, 2003, 08:13 PM	#39 (permalink)
Spy Car I miss Ruthie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of the Angels Local Time: 04:01 AM Posts: 6,359 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by CooperS4us Spy, friend, you will continue to get a lot of flak from us "CVT" fans until you get your behind inside a Cooper CVT and give a detailed test drive report. You drove a (gasp!) Saturn CVT but you won't be caught dead on a Cooper CVT? Only got to drive a Vue because an old friend bought one . Only drove it a couple of blocks because I was curious about the CVT. My friend actually likes the Vue, but is quite upset with himself for not buying a manual. He wanted his daughter to be able to drive the vehicle, but it turns out she bought (and learned to drive) a manual for her first car and now snubs the "auto" in the Vue (you know how snotty and elitist us manual drivers can be ) So now he feels "stuck" with a transmission he would rather not have. As in the MINI the CVT saps power and costs him gas mileage (and is boring to him). Not at all true that I wouldn't be caught dead in a CVT. Nothing I would enjoy more (ok maybe a slight overstatment) than taking a CVT out for a run in the canyons behind drgrey's place for a proper test. It is quite true I would never own one, as working a clutch is a joyous part of the driving experience for yours truely. The CVT, no matter how advanced it may or may not be, removes an essential part of the driving equation from my perspective (and unsurprisingly, I think I'm right ) But believe me I understand I'm in a minority of the general car buying public in the USA. But that's part of the fun of keeping the MCS "auto-free", this way the car remains the preserve of those who value "motoring" over convenience. Didn't MINI create the car to fill a gap for a brother and sisterhood of drivers who wanted an alternative from luxurious but spiritually life numbing cars like Lexus, and those damn "auto transmissions"? I think so. Quote: Originally Posted by CooperS4us Reagrding my '04 MCS, yep it is coming this week and I am really excited about it. Nothing like having an open mind when it comes to these cars...a CVT and a MCS in my driveway! Very lucky guy indeed!. Yes you are a lucky guy. Hope the week flys by...and the delivery goes very smoothy. For now you will have to be the man who compares the two. Look forward to hearing all about it.

Sep 22nd, 2003, 08:16 PM	#40 (permalink)
Spy Car I miss Ruthie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of the Angels Local Time: 04:01 AM Posts: 6,359 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Sejanus Wasn't that my whole point in the CVT MCS debate? You mean this isn't the CVT MCS debate?

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