[Jim Ray]

Quote: Originally Posted by nonsequitur

One of you who actually have the the car should lay out what the gearbox functions are, describe how they work, and carefully discuss how to use them!
A place to start this exercise is for someone to transcribe the contents from the MINI Cooper S Auto Owner's Manual (starting at Page 56 according to ASK-MINI) into this Thread, or maybe start a new thread titled appropriately. It can form the "starting place" for comments, corrections, additions, and thus Understanding of the Aisin AW TF-61SN 6-speed Automatic that's installed in your cars. The Moderator can also change the thread's title later if this one morphs into something useful.

I've never been able to read what BMW Group wrote as a description of how to drive the MCS Auto, because we don't have one yet.

Ok, I am kicking this off, and will add more facts as soon as I read my owners manual.

As I have driven our MCSCa less than 100 miles, I am far from the expert, but willing to do research. So far, putting the lever in D and pressing the foot feed has resulted in forward motion. Selecting R has caused rearward motion.

My initial impression is that it is a great gearbox. As I stated in another post, it is almost as smooth as the CVT, which I was very pleased with. I am not going to flog my car during the break in period, so some of you other owners will have to post your impressions during spirited driving. I will also after the mileage gets up a little more.

1. If you are reading this thread, you have purchased, or are contemplating purchasing a MCSa. Note, this is NOT a CVT. Stop calling it a MINI S with a CVT. Great tranny the CVT, but the MCS tranny is a full juice box. Torque converter, six distinct speeds computer selected and controlled.

More posts to follow with the facts as I can research them, if any of you have info to add, please contribute, I need all the help I can get. I will never race our car, so that info will have to be from the more daring owners.

If this thread works as I hope, it will become a sticky, and reside at the top permanently.

Jim Ray

[racoman]

I have an MCSCa with a little over 1300mi.
There are 3 basic modes for this tranny.
1-Standard D N R
2- Sport Mode (accessed by pushing stick to the right) This causes sportier shifts.
3-Manual Mode. This is the real fun. When in Sport Mode you can use the paddle shifters on the wheel to shift "manually" You pull up for up shifts and.....yes, push down for down shifts. The transmission won't let you screw up and, say, down shift from 6th to 1st....truly idiot proof.
Since passing the 1250 break in period I must say that I'm really enjoying this car and continually rev into the 4M+ range where it really comes alive.
Great car & great tranny!

[AprilWhine]

Minor correction: You can use the paddle shifters in either standard or sport mode. The time lag for going back to automatic shifting is shorter in standard mode.

[nonsequitur]

Quote: Originally Posted by AprilWhine

You can use the paddle shifters in either standard or sport mode.

A.
This means you have four (4) Selections?

Shifter Left:
1. Standard Drive ("P", "R", "N", "D")
2. Standard Manual, using Paddles to manually select Gears ("1", "2", "3", "4", "5", "6")

Shifter Right:
3. Sport Drive (what does the Speedometer indicate: "S" or "SD"?)
4. Sport Manual, using the Paddles ("1", "2", "3", "4", "5", "6")

Do you get an objective performance difference, Left versus Right?

This actually makes sense because the Aisin Gearbox is a Stepped Automatic. There is only a performance map between standard and sport, same gearing underneath.

B.
Another way to characterize this is Two (2) Selections: Standard and Sport, with an Override always available through the Paddles or Shifter to select a specific gear.

How does the Owner's Manual explain this? Which viewpoint is best?

[AprilWhine]

Quote: Originally Posted by nonsequitur

A.
This means you have four (4) Selections?

Shifter Left:
1. Standard Drive ("P", "R", "N", "D")
2. Standard Manual, using Paddles to manually select Gears ("1", "2", "3", "4", "5", "6")

Shifter Right:
3. Sport Drive (what does the Speedometer indicate: "S" or "SD"?)
4. Sport Manual, using the Paddles ("1", "2", "3", "4", "5", "6")

Do you get an objective performance difference, Left versus Right?

This actually makes sense because the Aisin Gearbox is a Stepped Automatic. There is only a performance map between standard and sport, same gearing underneath.

B.
Another way to characterize this is Two (2) Selections: Standard and Sport, with an Override always available through the Paddles or Shifter to select a specific gear.

How does the Owner's Manual explain this? Which viewpoint is best?

That is correct, there are four options. I haven't played with it enough to say if there is a difference or not yet, I am waiting to hit 1200 miles to work it out.

[sjbartnik]

Quote: Originally Posted by nonsequitur

Shifter Left:
1. Standard Drive ("P", "R", "N", "D")
2. Standard Manual, using Paddles to manually select Gears ("1", "2", "3", "4", "5", "6")

Yes. Even with the shifter to the left, you can grab the paddles and start manually shifting anytime. As aprilwhine mentioned, when the shifter is in D, the tranny will revert to automatic operation within a few seconds of your last paddle input.

Quote:

Shifter Right:
3. Sport Drive (what does the Speedometer indicate: "S" or "SD"?)

When in SportDrive, display indicates SD.

Quote:

4. Sport Manual, using the Paddles ("1", "2", "3", "4", "5", "6")

Yep, and of course you can use the shifter itself as in the Cooper CVT, or you can use the paddles, or you can use both.

Quote:

Do you get an objective performance difference, Left versus Right?

In manual mode there really isn't any difference between left and right because you are shifting manually so you determine the shift points.

There is a noticeable difference in performance and tranny behavior between D and SD. D is more concerned with casual crusing and normal day-to-day driving. In this mode it behaves like most other automatics out there, upshifting as early as possible to increase fuel economy. This is the mode to use for heavy traffic situations or if you are concerned about mpg.

SD is a lot more fun
It puts the transmission into more of an aggressive mode. It will hold gears longer and it will not upshift as readily (so that, when you brake for a turn, it does not upshift into a gear that would be inappropriate for high-speed corner exit like a traditional auto would, thus having to downshift again as you exit the corner and apply throttle). Also, in SD, if you floor it, the auto will hold a gear until the engine is bouncing off the rev limiter. Yes, I was surprised to find that out.

SD will also downshift sequentially through the gears as you decelerate (say approaching a stoplight) so that should you need to hit the throttle again, you are always in an appropriate gear for rapid acceleration. You can feel and hear it do this as you are slowing (another reason why D is more appropriate for heavy traffic situations, as this SD behavior is somewhat inappropriate for that kind of situation -- but very cool otherwise).

Accelerating rapidly on a busy street it wound out first gear until it hit the rev limiter (you know when it gets there, you can feel/hear the fuel cutoff), then shifted into second. Then it did the same thing in second gear! I was impressed.

As I've said to many folks, I don't generally like automatics, but I have to admit that I like this one.

[sbontrager]

Just over 400 miles in and I have a few minor things to note, and a couple of questions.

The questions first. Do D and SD actually use 1st gear? I think that SD does, but I don't think D does. It just starts off in 2. Anyone have different notes on this? I'm usually in manual mode so I've not paid close attention to it. It just doesn't seem to send the supercharger into the whine like 1st normally does.

The downshift in SD is quite abrupt and caught me off guard the first few times I did it. Don't use this in heavy traffic or you'll find a truck up your tail pipe in a hurry.

When you switch to manual mode at a stop you can either upshift or downshift. If you downshift you start in 1st, if you upshift you start in 2nd. Just a tid-bit to save you a click.

In manual mode it will downshift all the way to 2 for you when you come to a stop. 1st almost seems optional. It's fun to use 1st to get off the line in a hurry, but most of the time starting out in 2nd is fine. No reason to smoke everyone all the time. Anyone have any comments on pulling away in 2nd?

Last night I had an unexpected moment. I was merging onto the tollway and a minivan didn't want to let me over, so I downshifted at the same time I put my foot in it, which triggered a second downshift. Needless to say, I was well above the 4500 RPM break-in limit. Thrilling, but caught me off guard. A click or two of the paddle and the minivan was a speck of dust in the mirror.

[Wondaboy]

Jim,

Good to hear you have your car

Piers

[Jim Ray]

Quote: Originally Posted by Wondaboy

Jim,

Good to hear you have your car

Piers

Piers, thanks for the note. The main difficulty is watching for the rev limit during run in time. Absolutely love the performance of the automatic.
Jim

[Wondaboy]

I know what you mean! That said I have heard mixed opinion on the validity of the break in period, even from BMW technicians. Three BMW/Mini employees told me different things, ranging from 1200 miles at under 4500rpm, 300 miles mixed revs not exceeding 5000, and even no need to bother. I think the 300 is more to do with the brakes.

Anyway, as I plan to keep the car for a while (a first for me), I aimed for the 1200 rule, mixing up the revs on long journeys. I must admit at around 800 miles I lost my head, and forgot, but otherwise I did behave.

You will be run in in no time... enjoy

Piers

[Jim Ray]

Wow.

I just read your review of your MCSa mods. That should be manditory reading for all of us with the auto MCS. Very well written, and I like your analysis of the car.

Any of you who have not seen what can be done to the automatic S should follow the link on the above post by Piers.

Thanks again.

Jim

[Wondaboy]

your to kind,

thanks

[GBMINI]

Recent observation:
Even in full sports manual mode, the transmission will shift to prevent redline - on my tests it shifted between 6200 & 6500 rpm ... you CANNOT hold redline on the MCS auto.

[beekman]

One question I have:

Both 'D' and 'SD' are adaptive, but do they learn from how the car is driven in 'M'?

[nonsequitur]

Quote: Originally Posted by GBMINI

you CANNOT hold redline on the MCS auto.

Probably true, but why would you want to "hold redline"?


I've not driven a modern car (Manual, Auto, CVT, ...) that can be driven "at" redline. Either the car shifts (if an Auto or automated manual), or it "cuts out" from the rev limiter shutting down fuel delivery.

There are sometimes differences between the computer management system reading of the engine rpm and the indication fed to the speedometer/tachometer. I would expect the MINI Cooper S Auto to be very consistent, however.

[GBMINI]

Quote: Originally Posted by nonsequitur

Probably true, but why would you want to "hold redline"?

Personally ... no idea
But it came up in discussion on my weblog, and I did the test and wrote up the results.

To quote from the questioner ...
Quite often on the track and at AutoX events it is faster to momentarily bump up against the rev limiter for a few seconds than it is to up shift and then immediately down shift for the next corner
(Not sure how relevant that is if the auto is good enough to shift up and then down again though)

[nonsequitur]

Quote: Originally Posted by GBMINI

Quite often on the track and at AutoX events it is faster to momentarily bump up against the rev limiter for a few seconds than it is to up shift and then immediately down shift for the next corner

This explains how they exploit the behavior of a particular device to achieve a racing (timed) result on the autocross course. The decision (in a Manual?) is to accept the reduced power of the rev limiter versus the decoupled time of two gear shifts.

They are not "holding redline" in this example. There's an argument it's just pushing the motor against the computer-controlled limiter, using the computer for the fine control typically exercised by driver control.

If this is the concern, then I'd say clearly there is "No Problem" with this gearbox!

[beekman]

I've heard the MCS rev limit quoted anywhere between 6750 and 7000 RPM, so if the MCSa is shifting up for you as low as 6200 that's a fair difference.

During a test drive I went up over 6500 and I upshifted before the computer could do it for me - admittedly I wasn't trying to hold it there though.

But being that peak power arrives at 6500 anyway, it probably doesn't make a lot of difference unless you're doing a lot of track time.

[nonsequitur]

Quote: Originally Posted by beekman

I've heard the MCS rev limit quoted anywhere between 6750 and 7000 RPM, so if the MCSa is shifting up for you as low as 6200 that's a fair difference.

Unless MINI changed things for 2005, the redline for the Cooper S is 6,750rpm indicated; 7,000rpm limiter redline.

There was a goofy concept of "cushion" inserted in the thinking that goes something like this: "We tell you that the redline is 6,750rpm, but it's really 7,000rpm before the limiter shuts off fuel so that you have a cushion between the decision point and when the car's computer takes over." It was finally removed from the CVT due to our insistent complaint, and the dangerous illogic it introduced there. It may have been removed from the Cooper S too.

What does the Owner's Manual say?

I'd expect the MCSa to be very consistent and reliable on this point. It won't shift at different numbers unless you are using your right foot or the shifter to modify the program.

[caminifan]

It would appear that I have a mix-up on the owners manual for the MCSa - the manual I have only covers operation of the CVT (pseudo/hybrid automatic) transmission. No discussion at all of the 6 speed Aisin A/T. Therefore, could someone who has the manual that describes the operation of the 6 speed Aisin A/T, please post the part number that is on the manual? Thanks in advance.