[datwrx]

how useful is this option? Is it worth the money? I'm going to purchase one and need to know if the option i'm getting is worth it. and also, how much did you all get your mini for ? what is the price range i should be looking to pay for type S with NAV, Dynamic Stabiliy, sunroof, automatic.

[YQTYYZ]

Quote: Originally Posted by datwrx

how useful is this option? Is it worth the money? I'm going to purchase one and need to know if the option i'm getting is worth it. and also, how much did you all get your mini for ? what is the price range i should be looking to pay for type S with NAV, Dynamic Stabiliy, sunroof, automatic.

I can only speak for Canada, but I believe that it's $690 CDN. The price depends on what you're willing to pay for in terms of safety features. I do not believe that safety items should be priced out of someone's range just because they couldn't afford it.

It depends where you live; in wintry conditions, I firmly believe that the DSC will HELP, but not avoid all your problems. You still have to drive sensibly and look out for yourself and others. That said, I've never had this feature before in a car, and welcome it with open arms.

I've flogged a Chrysler 300C around the wet and slippery skidpad and ESP features keep it on course. Without it, you'd be spinning every which way.

Bottom line: you'll have to see whether you want this nanny or not. If you can afford it, why not?

Hope this helps!

[haroldchrismeyer]

The best part about it is the switch to turn it off. I don't find it that useful, and do find that with it on the car is very limited in its capabilities. Lets say a camaro tries to blow your doors off, and you forget to turn off the DSC. When you shift to second gear the computer says you have slippage, and reduces throttle to about ten percent. Or you have to swerve to miss a truck that comes across the center line, and when you swerve back to miss the hole on the side of the road the car won't respond quick enough. It cost me a wheel for that one.

[MINIAC]

Quote: Originally Posted by datwrx

how useful is this option? Is it worth the money? I'm going to purchase one and need to know if the option i'm getting is worth it. and also, how much did you all get your mini for ? what is the price range i should be looking to pay for type S with NAV, Dynamic Stabiliy, sunroof, automatic.

Welcome to MINI2

There are numerous threads on your question regarding DSC ...

GENERAL DISCUSSION forum titles for dsc showing threads

The MINI USA website has a "Build Your Own" feature which will let you know the MSRP of a MINI with the specs you want. Don't expect to pay anything less than MSRP

[Johnny V]

If you live in a place that has rough winters with alot of icy roads (as I do) then I would recommend this 100%. I would get it for sure...

I did a little test on DSC to see what if it really was doing anything...

I took my car to an empty parking lot at night that was very icy.... I shut off the DSC (you can disengage it) I then proceeded to take some harder turns and spun out... I tried these same maneuvers with the DSC turned back on and I did not spin out... I lost control temporarily but was able to stay on course...

-j

[nonsequitur]

DSC absolutely does what it is advertised to do, and does it well. You can turn off most of the functionality (except ABS) with the panel-mounted switch as others have stated.

We in the Northwest get to test this equipment on low friction surfaces most of the year. Rain soaked streets and racetracks allow varied experience. The system works.

Because it works using each wheel's brakes, the argument that it is slower on the track with DCS on than with DCS off is true, but the functionality works even at high speeds. We just turn it off when that is appropriate, and leave it on for all street driving.

[Sitcur]

Quote: Originally Posted by datwrx

how useful is this option? Is it worth the money? I'm going to purchase one and need to know if the option i'm getting is worth it. and also, how much did you all get your mini for ? what is the price range i should be looking to pay for type S with NAV, Dynamic Stabiliy, sunroof, automatic.

I ordered my Sa about a month ago - it priced out a little below $26,000 with the features you mentioned, but no sun-roof. MSRP in Los Angeles.

[datwrx]

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm going to get the DSC since you can turn it on or off. Not sure about all the other options yet.

[whokilledkaji]

DSC isn't an option for a Mini Cooper S in Japan... It's standard... Anyways, since I had to get it as standard, I have mixed feeling about it... It's caused me some problems, but the one time I drove in the snow, I totally noticed the difference... For snowy areas, it's good... I'll be needed in next year for sure... Worth the money for most people I would say...

[sbontrager]

I leave DSC on 99.9% of the time. When a Camero pulls up next to me or whatever I'll flip it off, when my WRX driving maniac buddy is in the car I'll turn it offf... but otherwise it's on.

Today, it saved my bacon. I was flying down the North Dallas Speeday (Dallas North Tollway) at [feel free to make up some number] mph and suddenly there was an accident just in front of me, one lane over. The SUV in that lane swerves in front of me. I was in the passing lane, no shoulder, just a concrete barrier--no swerving left. Obviously I can't go right, the only thing to do is get on the brakes. All the weight went forward and the back end got squirly. I felt the DSC correct my course and I never got more than a fraction of a degree off my intended course. If DSC would have been off I guarantee I would have gone into a spin and hit the barrier.

I don't know if it was DSC or ACS. Either way, I don't regret spending the extra money and getting it.

The safest place to be in an accident is not in it. Forget having tonnes of steel around you, be in something nimble enough to avoid the accidents.

The best part? I was on the way to the shop to get the software upgraded.

[nonsequitur]

Quote: Originally Posted by sbontrager

Today, it saved my bacon. I was flying down the North Dallas Speeday (Dallas North Tollway) <edit out> and suddenly there was an accident just in front of me, one lane over.

You should edit your post.

There are several important driving suggestions with the DSC-equipped cars.

Perhaps most important, as sbontrager's story illustrates, your car goes where you look. Keeping your eyes on where you want to go, not on where you are afraid of hitting, is critical. DSC significantly helps in this kind of situation. It works. It will yaw the car back on line, repeatedly.

Find your escape, Look at that escape, and Drive to it - the magic of DSC!

Switch it off only when you are fully aware that you are doing it, for a specific reason. There is no interference with routine driving.

Because DSC works by applying the brakes individually to each wheel, it does retard ("slows down") one corner of the car, relative to the others. This creates rotation that bring it back on line. In certain situations (like a track day, in the wet) that means of correction may not be what you want, or fun. Yoou can turn it off, and turn it back on again.

Physics still rules. Excessive speeds may create energies that simply overwhelm the situation. DSC will still help, may save your butt, but the driver is still very much in control of the what happens.

To repeat: "It works."

[am0eba]

Quote: Originally Posted by nonsequitur

{snip}...

Switch it off only when you are fully aware that you are doing it, for a specific reason. There is no interference with routine driving.
... {snip}

I see from your profile that you drive a CVT automatic. While it may be true that DSC does not interfere with your routine driving, I and several others can attest that it can be very intrusive under certain circumstances. I have an '05 MCS convertible with the Getrag 6-spd and LSD, and due to the aforesaid intrusive action of the DSC, have taken to routinely disabling it when I start the car. (I now have a "track mode" device that does this automatically for me.) I am still able to activate DSC for unknown, wet, or otherwise slippery conditions.

The intrusive behavior manifests itself when accellerating away from a stop at the crest of a hill, or sometimes when downshifting to accellerate, and from what I understand, it may be exacerbated on the '05s, due to the lower gearing in the transmission. In any case, there is a tendency for power to be robbed in a delayed manner, before wheelspin occurs, right when power is need to get away from a bad situuation.

It may not actually be specifically the DSC that is causing the problematic behavior, but when I disble it, the problem goes away.

I appreciate your comments about DSC's behaviour on the highway, and may consider enabling it more often during cruise, but I felt obligated to point out that ther is indeed a potential downside to it.

_Dave_

[nonsequitur]

Quote: Originally Posted by am0eba

I appreciate your comments about DSC's behaviour on the highway, and may consider enabling it more often during cruise, but I felt obligated to point out that ther is indeed a potential downside to it.

Dave's comments should be appreciated, because he describes "aware" situations. He knows a behavior happens, knows that he doesn't want it to happen, and switches off DSC to prevent it - each could be viewed as a decision point. I'm OK with that.

My caution, for most people who have DSC, for most driving situations really, is that DSC works well in extreme situations. Given this is true, then having it enabled for the commute to work, for the shopping trip in the evening, or for the trip to the soccer game, for routine driving, just makes sense. Most crashes are avoidable, most modern day crashes (US) are fender benders, rear enders, ... (according to my insurance carrier). DSC excels under hard braking and fairly wild spin dynamics, each the conditions encountered when that goofball commuter ahead of you slams on the brakes.

Switch it off, when you need to switch it off.

Are you driving Track Days am0eba? If you are, then experiment a bit out there. You can definitely feel DSC differentially braking the inside front when on heavy maintenance throttle at mid-turn (not what you want on the track). Brake late into a corner and purposely mismanage trail braking. DSC will pull you back on line. Each of these reactions would be VERY useful on that three-lane freeway in a summer rain with expensive cars all around you, tail lights screaming bright red "STOP"!

How do you work out the "broom handle" test on your convertible?

Quote: Originally Posted by nonsequitur

Find your escape, Look at that escape, and Drive to it - the magic of DSC! <snip> Switch it off only when you are fully aware that you are doing it, for a specific reason. There is no interference with routine driving.

I should modify this quote.

"Find your escape, Look at that escape, and Drive to it" is decent advice for an car, any situation, any day. Eyes up. Look where you want to go, not at what you're afraid to hit (or you will hit it). This everyday driving habit does not need DSC to work for you.

It's not really the "magic of DSC"; it's training yourself to get out of a situation, and then having DSC engaged to help you do it.

[sbontrager]

Quote: Originally Posted by nonsequitur

You should edit your post.

...

Perhaps most important, as sbontrager's story illustrates, your car goes where you look. Keeping your eyes on where you want to go, not on where you are afraid of hitting, is critical. DSC significantly helps in this kind of situation. It works. It will yaw the car back on line, repeatedly.

Find your escape, Look at that escape, and Drive to it - the magic of DSC!

Physics still rules. Excessive speeds may create energies that simply overwhelm the situation. DSC will still help, may save your butt, but the driver is still very much in control of the what happens.

To repeat: "It works."

What, state troopers going to give me a ticket when they can't prove it? [unnamed value] on the DNT isn't all that fast. I've had my doors rattled by guys going 120+ too many times to count.

Yes, in the normal case your hands follow your eyes. I've been riding mountain bikes for decades and have plenty of training keeping my hands forward and focusing on my line even when my eyes get distracted for a fraction of a second (like that raccoon yelling at me this morning...). I don't know anyone who would be able to NOT LOOK when an accident happens 30 yards up, 8 yards over and a SUV jumps in fronts of you. Basic accident avoidance is "swerve, brake only if necessary" there was just no place to swerve in this case.

That said, my training is all at 10 mph and I have exact control of both of my brakes and power--a mountain bike is a different beast than a car. But, many of the concepts carry over.

But the point remains, if the car yaws for any reason (getting on the brakes hard while not going directly forward). DSC keeps you in line. Even at high speed.

When you are taking a steep descent with tight trees on either side, 80% rear brake, 20% front, any more than that and you are upside down.

[nonsequitur]

Quote: Originally Posted by sbontrager

What, state troopers going to give me a ticket when they can't prove it? 90 on the DNT isn't all that fast. I've had my doors rattled by guys going 120+ too many times to count.

Do what you want, so long as nobody else gets hurt. My only point was to not advertise and please keep MINI2 as clear and legal as possible.

Let's run a little scene... and then try an experiment.

28yr old male weaves his way through traffic on the Dallas North Tollway along with "all the other guys doing 90mph" in several lanes of traffic. All of a sudden... brake lights everywhere (surely this happens?). Years of skillful driving just can't rescue him this time because a little rain shower went through earlier. There's metal-to-metal contact. The fellow ahead happens to be a downtown attorney in his now-dented-trunk SLC500. An officer arrives, measurements, tickets are issued, a court case is scheduled.

He's back at the office with your information...
Google: sbontrager 90mph

It's already out there. Date stamped.

[am0eba]

Quote: Originally Posted by nonsequitur

{snip}...
Are you driving Track Days am0eba? If you are, then experiment a bit out there. You can definitely feel DSC differentially braking the inside front when on heavy maintenance throttle at mid-turn (not what you want on the track). Brake late into a corner and purposely mismanage trail braking. DSC will pull you back on line. Each of these reactions would be VERY useful on that three-lane freeway in a summer rain with expensive cars all around you, tail lights screaming bright red "STOP"!

How do you work out the "broom handle" test on your convertible?


... {snip}

I haven't done any track time in my MINI yet, but I'm definitely looking forward to it. I had some track experiences with my previous car, a 1999 Subaru RS2.5 (non turbo'd version of the WRX), and I drove and rode shotgun to a Pro Rally driver in a WRX at Firebird Raceway in Phoenix. (Not a race, no competition) when they were introduced.

I definitely appreciate what you're saying, especially since with DSC off, it seems like the MINI could go into throttle-lift oversteer pretty easily. Learned about that the hard way in my Subie! (So that's weight-transfer! )

That makes me interested in "learning" some of the DSC's good behavior. Thanks for the comments. I really didn't expect the DSC to be a problem, and maybe I can eventually learn to anticipate it better.

And the broomstick test? You need a reeeeeaallly long broom! Wish those roll hoops were a little farther forward, but at least they're there! I wouldn't have purchased the convertible otherwise.

Again, thanks for the thoughtful comments, and I think you're right on about the high speed antics in traffic.

_Dave_

[sbontrager]

Point taken. Except for a bit of velocity on DNT, I drive like a priest--well, seminarian. I'm not one for weaving all through traffic. And, never do I anything that endangers anyone else consciously. I've had DSC kick in a grand total of ONCE--and I thought it was a good example as to why to get it. Sometimes things are beyond our control--SUVs jump in front of you and you have to get on the brakes. When things are beyond your control is exactly when you need things like DSC. Sometimes expierence and training isn't enough--a bit of technical help will save your bacon.

I did get passed by a Ferrari going about 120 this evening. I was doing 65 in a 65.

In your example, please add some realism: the 28 year old has good insurrance and the SLK500 is repaired without issue. The premiums rise appropriately (first ding in years) and no suit is filed.

[nonsequitur]

Quote: Originally Posted by sbontrager

In your example, please add some realism: the 28 year old has good insurance and the SLK500 is repaired without issue. The premiums rise appropriately (first ding in years) and no suit is filed.

Point taken.

[nonsequitur]

Quote: Originally Posted by am0eba

I haven't done any track time in my MINI yet, but I'm definitely looking forward to it. <snip>

And the broomstick test? You need a reeeeeaallly long broom! Wish those roll hoops were a little farther forward, but at least they're there! I wouldn't have purchased the convertible otherwise. <snip>

I agree with you about the roll hoops being required. I actually saw one upside down on Wednesday, in a crazy freeway accident that appeared to have been someone on a cell phone tapping the car ahead in the bumper at speed, which spun it out and flipped it. The car rested on the roll hoops and windshield frame. Solid.

The "broomstick test" is the way the car clubs decide to allow a convertible into track day events. A "broomstick" (line) must pass cleanly over the head of the driver from the top of the windshield frame or front roll hoop to the top of the rear roll hoop. Most convertibles, including the MINI, don't pass.

[am0eba]

Quote: Originally Posted by nonsequitur

I agree with you about the roll hoops being required. I actually saw one upside down on Wednesday, in a crazy freeway accident that appeared to have been someone on a cell phone tapping the car ahead in the bumper at speed, which spun it out and flipped it. The car rested on the roll hoops and windshield frame. Solid.

The "broomstick test" is the way the car clubs decide to allow a convertible into track day events. A "broomstick" (line) must pass cleanly over the head of the driver from the top of the windshield frame or front roll hoop to the top of the rear roll hoop. Most convertibles, including the MINI, don't pass.

Nice to get another data point on the rollover integrity of the convertibles!

Yeah, I knew about the broomstick test, and with the seat lowered all the way, and the seatback slightly reclined, even my noggin (6' 2") has a few inches of clearance below the line. (I actually used a ladder to do this test. I couldn't find a "stick" long enough otherwise... The gap from the windshield frame to the hoops is about 6 feet or so.) Note that I don't own a helmet, so I couldn't check exactly how much clearance I would have while wearing one, but I observed at least 3 or 4 inches of clearance to my uncovered head.

_Dave_

Have you seen the pic of DUCTAPE's MINI 'vert upside down in the snow?



Wow.

_Dave_