On my first MINI, I paid for the floor mats but they were out of stock. They said they would send them and didn't after three reminders.

For some reason I ordered a second MINI from them over the phone. I faxed thenm the build sheet from MINIUSA. I told the salesman, Kyle, I would be trading a 1999 Passat and asked the approximate trade in value. He suggested looking at the Kelly Bluebook site to get an idea but actual value could not be determined until they say the car. Sounded right. I did as he suggested and was fine with the results, realizing it was only an approximation.

When the car was ready for delivery They offered $8,500 for the Passat. Kelly had it at around $12,500. When I questionned the amount, Kyle told me there had been a "miscalculation" and the real amount should be $9,300. I was still nowhere near happy. Keith the sales manager explained to my wife and I they didn't sell used cars outside of their own brands and that they would wholesale mine. He raised the amount to $10,000. Still not acceptable. Keep in mind, this is all happening after two months of waiting and tracking the car.

Keith laughed at my wife and I about what we thought the Passat was worth. When we referenced Kelly, he suggested we call them and ask them to buy the car for the amount they said it was worth. When he left us, my wife said to me, "I really don't like being made fun of."

The loan they offered was for $11,000 at 5.9%. We then discovered the car had not been programmed as Kyle and I had discussed two days earlier on the phone. Also, the car was ordered with the wrong interior. Keith saw us looking at the car in the lot and asked how it was going. I told him about the interior problem. His response was to turn his back to me and walk away without a word.

We left without the car. My wife now has a new VW Beetle with all the equipment the MINI was speced for and we are quite happy about it. By the way, the VW dealer treated us as though we were the customer and we mattered. The VW loan was $5,000 at 5.04%

International is the absolute least professional dealership I have ever worked with. Their words are meaningless, they have no integrity. My car will go back once more to get a drivers side window replaced and they might be successful at fixing the fuel gauge problem which just surfaced.

But, it will NEVER GO BACK THERE AGAIN. This episode has tainted my opinion of MINI, and I'm not real sure how I feel about my Cooper anymore. As far as I am concerned, my wife and I were damaged by this experience.

[NEMINI]

one question ..... which kelley blue book value did you look up? "street value"? or "trade-in?"

that dealership does sound like idiots either way but as far as trade-ins I've yet to find any dealer that will give you full kelley blue book "trade-in" value.

We were using the "trade-in" value for the Passat in "good" condition.

Actually, the VW dealer did give us that trad-in value on the Beetle. As an aside, the Beetle is the only car we would have considered as an alternative to the MINI. It's not as sporty or quick as a MINI, but it's got a very European flavor, even though Mexico had a good deal to do with it's existance.

[greyhoundmini]

Frails, I would strongly recommend you post this same message over on Mini Cooper Online's Dealer Rating System forum.

International were complete jerks to us, too. Hell will freeze over before I let those weenies touch one of our MINIs.

Thanks for the suggestion. It's over there now. It's also on the New MINI Message Board (roadfly)

[MINIjewel]

I feel it is necessary to post a response to this situation.
frails car was ordered exactly to contract as SIGNED by him. We would be willing to scan the contract and post a copy (personal info blacked out of course).
I was sitting right there when he came in to pick up his car. When his wife mentioned $13,000 for their car, she was laughing, and my manager laughed when he gave his response. There was absolutely nothing unprofessional about it.
As far as the intrest rate, every manufacturer offers a different rate. 5.9% is what we got for him from MINI. We have no control over that.
I also personally apologized profusely to him for any misunderstanding, and told him (and his wife, who was very nice) that if there was anything I could do to make this up to them I would (even though except for the floor mats, we really didn't do anything wrong). After she suggested they might wait a while and order again later, I told them I would personally handle all of the details.
We were all professional, and tried to be as understanding as possible. We all apologized more than once, even though the order was accurate, and did everything we could to try and be accomodating.
frails, I'm sorry again that you had an unhappy experience, but we as a dealer really did try to make you happy.

[jlivingood]

Not to be too critical, but you ought to consider a few things. It seems that you were most unhappy about the value of the trade and that this colored the rest of your experiences after that to some degree.

I don't understand why people trade cars in and are unhappy with the value you get. You sell the car privately, then you get book value. You trade it to a dealer due to convenience - for which there is a cost. A car is always worth more to the dealer who sells the same marque new and even more to the one who has serviced it completely from new since they can then sell it as a 'certified' used car. If you wanted more money you should have sold it privately. On a hot car, the dealer has no incentive to give you some phenomenal value on your trade since more than likely they are selling your car at MSRP not over.

And as for the % rate on the loan - again you are using the dealer so it is convenient. For that, there's always a price. I recommend people go through PeopleFirst.Com for their own financing, or their local credit union. You get a great rate and you know that rate before you set foot in the dealership to take delivery of the car.

In addition, your dealer has NO control over the % rate. The difference fromn VW and MINI just happens to be what their national credit companies offer and the dealer handles that transaction for you. You will find that car companies will offer more attractive rates when they have trouble moving cars. This explains why VW offers a slightly better rate than MINI and why, say, Chrysler even better rates (0% in many cases).

BTW, my last car was a VW Beetle. It's not the MINI but it's a very good car and should make you happy for many years to come.

Jason

[MINIjewel]

Actually, I must apologize again. To anyone that would wish me to prove my point by posting a copy of the contract, I can't. I forgot that at the request of frails when he was here, the contract was put through the shredder.

[msenkbeil]

I've got to toss in a few comments on this issue since I've been treated well by the International MINI staff.

I think the biggest complicating factor in frails' purchasing experience is that he did it from out of town and was not extra careful about the purchase. I, myself, (though I live only 10 minutes from International MINI) would have been careful to personally double check my order into MINI. (Isn't the detail about your order visible in the MINI owner's lounge online, while you track order progress?) Being out of town and doing this over the phone means you would need to be extra, extra careful. Perhaps you feel you were being extra, extra careful, frails, I don't know.

I think the golden rule of car purchasing was also broken: always agree on the selling price (including your trade in amount) before you sign on the dotted line. If you don't do this, you're asking for trouble. Sure it's a pain in the butt to drive a couple hours to the dealer just to get the vehicle appraised, but the details must be in writing. If they said they can't give you a trade in value without seeing the vehicle, and you still proceeded with the order, then you have assumed the risk of a low trade in value.

I'm still confident in International MINI's quality of service and plan on buying and maintaining my MINI there. I've had my Infiniti Q45 serviced there for years and they've always done a top-notch job on it. Clear communication is key to any business transaction, and as long as I've made clear my expectations, International has always delivered.

[NEMINI]

Quote:

(Isn't the detail about your order visible in the MINI owner's lounge online, while you track order progress?)

Not always ... seems very hit and miss from what I've seen posted by people who have received their MINI's.

I've yet to see anyone with a 2003, including myself, that doesn't have a blank box in factory installed options.

It seems I've stirred up quite a fuss. I should set a point or two straight. First of all, MINIjewel was very friendly and helpful during my unsuccessful visit to International. I am sure if she or someone with her degree of class and professionalism would have been handling the sale, it would have gone much better. She is the only person that I can recall who was in fact upset that things were going downhill so rapidly. I have nothing but the best things to say about Aimee and the way she does her job.

The trade in price we were using as a reference was the NADA trade in price. Not the retail. We wouldn't have been talking trade at all if Kyle had told me up front they didn't take trades outside of their own brands. He told me to use the Kelly trade in price as an approximation of what I could expect. If he hadn't said that, we would have been there without a trade.

The interior problem was that the car had the black leatherette (sp?) with silver trim. That interior was our choice on a previous color combination. That was the contract I actually signed. All that was changed along with the car color and a couple other things as we got closer to the order being placed. All I can conclude is that Kyle was successful in changing all of the details on our order except that one. I should have caught it on the owner's lounge, but I didn't.

In the end, none of this makes any difference. Those who like International will continue to do so, and those who don't will do likewise. We (Mr. and Mrs. frails) have two cars they are very happy with. One MINI Cooper and one VW Beetle. Each car's performance, looks, handling, etc., fits the driving style of the person who drives it.

MINIJewel, please don't feel badly about all this. You are a very nice and caring person who is just trying to do the best job she can and I respect you very much for it. As anyone in the car business will tell you, you can't sell everyone. Sometimes a deal just blows up. That's the nature of things in what is a very tough business.

Aimee, I appologize for any hurt I may have caused you. That certainly was not my intention.

[Mr.X.]

bmw wanted my loan so bad that they knocked down the interest 2% after i countered with my credit union's offer..

In case no one ever heard of it before even the most respectable car dealership are still there to make a profit.

With mini so far it seems to be take the car or leave. Someone else will buy it... we can't be bothered.

[MINIjewel]

Quote:

Originally posted by frails

We wouldn't have been talking trade at all if Kyle had told me up front they didn't take trades outside of their own brands. He told me to use the Kelly trade in price as an approximation of what I could expect. If he hadn't said that, we would have been there without a trade.

I have to say first, that I appreciate your apology, although I wasn't hurt by the comments made.

Second, we do take trades outside our brands, we just don't then sell them. We wholesale them, which is why we may not give as much for a trade as a dealer who does sell that brand. I'm sure that's why the VW dealer was able to give you as much as they were for your Passat.