[docnorton]

Hi all,

I apolgise if you feel this is off topic but I have access to a Cooper S supercharger due to a friend having the Cooper Works done.

I currently own a Toyota Starlet (ahem) SRi (1.3i 1331cc engine)

Just to be different to everbody else (as I always am !) I was thinking of getting the Toyota Glanza (96+ version of the Starlet GT Turbo) but I decided against.

I wondered would I still need an intercooler for the M45 SC if I put it on a 1.3 engine?!

Sorry if it seems like one of those "Well Durrr" questions but it would save a few pennys if I don't need one.

Also I only have access to the SC unit itself. I understand I would need the pullys and gaskets. could some kind soul provide me with the parts I would need if I only bought the SC unit.

[docnorton]

Quote: Originally Posted by Max

Welcome in here

Try a Toyota Forum for your answer?

We all drive MINIs

regards

Max

sorry

[Paul Webster]

There's no reason why you cant run the supercharger without the intercooler, in fact most roots type blowers actually run day I say it carbs , good luck with your project.

They're quite a few people who have added this blower to various engines because of its availiblity lately.

[XTREEM]

There is a guy on UK ebay who sells custom made flanges, which does away with the mini duct and converts it to a 3 inch pipe for easy plumbing to other applications.

John.

[docnorton]

Thanks for takin the time to answer - I wasn't sure what sort of reception I would get. The reason I posted here is that the majority of your peeps will know about the Eaton Supercharger being a Mini used part.

I don't want to ask the Toyota bods because:

a) They won't know about the blower with it being a predominatly Mini/BMW unit.

b) It's a secret and I don't want them to know until someone tries taking me on and I blow them away !

So I would need a Flange - how about pulleys how does that all work - I see there are different sizes - step up / reductions etc...

What sort of cash am I looking at for all the necessarys.

Also you say I could run the blower without an intercooler - would it hamper the performance not being cooled - if so how much would I loose.

It probably won't matter as there will be such a noticable difference from my N/A 1.3 engine.

Thanks in advance guys...

[XTREEM]

No worries docnorton, most of us Mini folk have arrived via other forms of modified cars and are happy to help where we can.

As for pulleys etc that will have to be worked out via the diameters of your other pulleys, you can probably keep the standard charger pulley and adjust the sizing of your crank pulley to suit, you will also have to come up with some sort of belt tensioner.

You should drop 1600Dave a PM he is setting up a mini charger on a Datsun 1600 and will have heaps of valuable information you may be able to tap into.

I would run a intercooler if I was you.

John.

[docnorton]

Quote: Originally Posted by XTREEM

No worries docnorton, most of us Mini folk have arrived via other forms of modified cars and are happy to help where we can.

As for pulleys etc that will have to be worked out via the diameters of your other pulleys, you can probably keep the standard charger pulley and adjust the sizing of your crank pulley to suit, you will also have to come up with some sort of belt tensioner.

You should drop 1600Dave a PM he is setting up a mini charger on a Datsun 1600 and will have heaps of valuable information you may be able to tap into.

I would run a intercooler if I was you.

John.

Thanks for all your help - I am seeing the cost of this project going up and up and up !!!

[Andy@Ross-Tech.com]

Buy this book:

http://www.bentleypublishers.com/product.htm?code=gsup

[docnorton]

Quote: Originally Posted by Max

Sorry - I did not mean to offend - but this is a MINI website

+ I know *** all about Toyos

No problem Max ;o)

[Cooper_si]

i know a company who are fitting M45 eatons to VWs no problem
So id have thought doc with the right knowledge with what your doing
it will be possible

[pocketrocketowner]

The issue of the intercooler is pretty straightforward. The cooler the air the denser it is and thus the more power you get out of your combustion event. When you use the air charge directly off of a blower or turbo (a LOT more so with turbos), the charge is hot thus less dense thus less HP for your troubles. You do not need to install the specific intercooler but you certainly should consider cooling the air charge before it goes into your cylinders.
Hope this helps

[docnorton]

Thanks for all that guys,

Just a thought - I mentioned to someone I wouldn't be that bothered if the blower wasn't using it's full potential.

If I fit it straight to the car - no, I wouldn't get the full HP out of the blower as the air would be too hot/dense but it would give me the edge at the lights right?!

If I put it on now I assume it would be feaseable to come back at a later date and fit the intercooler without doing too much damage as I only have a little 1.3i.

Thanks in advance.

Chris

[supercoopers]

Quote: Originally Posted by docnorton

Thanks for all that guys,

Just a thought - I mentioned to someone I wouldn't be that bothered if the blower wasn't using it's full potential.

If I fit it straight to the car - no, I wouldn't get the full HP out of the blower as the air would be too hot/dense but it would give me the edge at the lights right?!

If I put it on now I assume it would be feaseable to come back at a later date and fit the intercooler without doing too much damage as I only have a little 1.3i.

Thanks in advance.

Chris

Chris,

You will see gains regardless of whether or not you use an intercooler, that is correct.

What you have to be mindful of though, is the fact that with very high intake temperatures, (60-80deg C above ambient), you will see pinking or heaven forbid level2-3 detonation which will accelerate the death of your pistons far beyond what you plan to do to them in the short term. Linked to this, don't expect your bottom end to last too long with 10 odd PSI of hot supercharged boost pressure punishing them. That is if you don't snap a rod first! .

Cheers,

Henry

[XTREEM]

Quote: Originally Posted by docnorton

Thanks for all that guys,

Just a thought - I mentioned to someone I wouldn't be that bothered if the blower wasn't using it's full potential.

If I fit it straight to the car - no, I wouldn't get the full HP out of the blower as the air would be too hot/dense but it would give me the edge at the lights right?!

If I put it on now I assume it would be feaseable to come back at a later date and fit the intercooler without doing too much damage as I only have a little 1.3i.

Thanks in advance.

Chris

If you"re going to do this thing, I would hang off "save your money" and do it once properly, its really not worth the bother to do it half arsed, the charger isn't really efficient and will take some driving from your little 1.3ltr, its not like a turbo where its nearly all profit!!! the supercharger is a trade off, you use a lot of power to drive it and get a little profit back. A non intercooled set up is a waste of time.


John.

[docnorton]

Quote: Originally Posted by supercoopers

Chris,

You will see gains regardless of whether or not you use an intercooler, that is correct.

What you have to be mindful of though, is the fact that with very high intake temperatures, (60-80deg C above ambient), you will see pinking or heaven forbid level2-3 detonation which will accelerate the death of your pistons far beyond what you plan to do to them in the short term. Linked to this, don't expect your bottom end to last too long with 10 odd PSI of hot supercharged boost pressure punishing them. That is if you don't snap a rod first! .

Cheers,

Henry

So the general concensous is: Buy an intercooler !

In that case - what sort of prices can I expect to pay for an intercooler?

I found one for a Toyota Starlet GT Turbo/Glanza for £800 (Front Mounted)

but I heard you can use a 2nd hand cossie one that I could pick up for about £20?!

Any truth in this.

So far then the blower cost me £130, in theory the intercooler could be £50, air outlet flange off ebay £30,

Thats £210 so far - the next bit is drive belts and stuff - is there anything I have missed as I know bugg3r all about SC's?

How much extra am I looking at? Also I understand if I'm going fast I need to stop fast so will be uprating brakes on the front then changing to disks on the back.

Also eventually will be getting strut braces front and rear (£90 a piece) and Koni struts.

Does anyone recommend I look at uprating any engine parts or drive shafts due to the increase in power - I won't be thrashing the thing all the time - just using it as a boost from the lights...

When I ask for recommedations I mean essential - not more power mods...

Thanks again chaps...


Chris

[XTREEM]

Pretty much any intercooler that fits and is easy to plumb without to long a track, the least sharp turns in the plumbing the better.

What are you doing about engine management? Your going to need a aftermarket computer or someone to custom tune your stock one "depending on what type it is" you may also need to look at bigger injectors, good exhaust system etc etc.

How are you going to mount the throttle body? do you have the mini throttle body tube?

John.

[docnorton]

Quote: Originally Posted by XTREEM

Pretty much any intercooler that fits and is easy to plumb without to long a track, the least sharp turns in the plumbing the better.

What are you doing about engine management? Your going to need a aftermarket computer or someone to custom tune your stock one "depending on what type it is" you may also need to look at bigger injectors, good exhaust system etc etc.

How are you going to mount the throttle body? do you have the mini throttle body tube?

John.

Hi there,

As of yet I don’t have anything its all in the works. The SC I bought of eBay has just fallen through due to an admin error on behalf of the seller. This doesn’t worry me as there are blowers going on eBay all the time.

I have a modified exhaust on my car at the moment, in fact twin race bike cans !

The air filter is about to be replaced with a RamAir foam filter from Fensport.

I am can quite happily afford the blower but I still don’t know how much the extras will be. You mentioned a mounting unit?

Could someone list all the extra bits I will need.

I have sorted so far:

Performance Air Filter
Performance Exhaust
Eaton M45 Blower
Flange for air outlet (Mini to 3” round hole)

And that is all… I need the cost of:

Intercooler units? –
- 2nd hand cheap old one, will that do off an old cossy or something? What is best to use?
Pulleys?
Drive belts?
Mounting?
And anything else I need with the rough cost…

As for the fuel management – I will be getting it chipped at some point as part of the whole project. I assume when it’s done they will slap her on a rolling road and map the fuel there and then? If not – oh bugg3r!

Any more tips are much appreciated – even small possibly insignificant things that you think of may save me £1000’s in the long run…

Much appreciated you guys have been really helpful so far – I hope I may be able to show a few of you the finished product once I’m done if you’re around the Preston way…..

Keep them coming….

Chris.