[john_cook]

Hi Guys,

I've been thinking of tuning up my cooper S to the 200bhp mark and thought I would try out a JCW. Mine is an 2003 cooper S, the car I drove was a 2005 JCW. When I bought my car (2nd hand 12 months ago) I tried out a JCW at the time (200bhp), to be honest it didn't feel much faster than the cooper S at all. People said that it was a subtle difference in power delivery, more in the mid-range.

Anyway, the test drive yesterday. The car looked and sounded great from the first turn of the key. Got it out on the open road and let it rip.. It did feel quick, but again not much quicker than my cooper S. Mine is the 163bhp version, this the 210. There should have been a more noticable step up in power. I've driven 10,000 miles in my car so now know where the power can be extracted from the car but still I say this JCW did not impress. Driving my car after the test drive confirmed that the JCW didn't really feel any faster. It did sound very good though.

The mini guy said if I upgraded it would cost £3600 for the upgrade to 200 bhp and a further £500 to take it to 210 bhp! He also said the JCW brakes are a waste of money and all your getting is red painted callipers. Guess a few owners on here will disagree with that.

So a subtle increase in performance for a no so subtle decrease in my finances!! I think I will now look elsewhere, my to choices are GTT (220bhp pack) or BBR (220GTi). I've read that both these tuned models kick some serious *****.

Cooky

[Brynster]

Ordered an 06 MCS last month without the JWC kit on the advice of --- the salesman. He said the same as you: not worth the extra in the real world. I'm coming off a Puma with less than 130 bhp so I guess the 170 of the standard S will prove enough of a novelty and - with all the points already on my licence - maybe the smarter choice, too!

[LMB]

It's the difference between gears where the works really shines, especially in th 50 - 70 mark, which I use daily.

[Brynster]

Well, that's certainly where I'd appreciate the difference, too. But the cost of the kit (and the 17 wheels which I'd have to add to take the bigger brakes) would wipe out the entire contribution of my part-exchange. That just seems plain silly. The MCS - in standard form -will be the quickest car I've ever owned so for me I think there'll be plenty of fun in that for a while. I understand the appeal of the JCW, it's just a huge percentage increase for the extra "real world" benefit and takes the price into a different category where there's competition from other makes/models.

[john_cook]

Don't want to open up a huge can of worms or start a huge debate but if the JCW 210 didn't feel that much faster than my standard 163bhp cooper S, how much faster are the 220 bhp GTT or BBR models going to feel?

Cooky

[Dracue]

I totaly agree with you as I bought my MCS 03 model two months ago. Where just before hand I test drove a MCS JCW about a weeke before of which I had the pesky sales guy on my case to go for an extremley low speced JCW.

I ended saving loads for a much better speced standard MCS that I'm more then happy with...

[Brynster]

That looks like a tasty S you already have. Do you actually need more power? Are you looking for a change for fun or practical reasons - or just because the JCW is tempting?!?
If the 210bhp doesn't feel sufficient, haunt your dealer for the sporty limited S that's reportedly coming at the end of this month with a rumoured 235bhp and 300lbs less weight. What's that: 300bhp/ton? I think you WOULD feel the difference with that!
Best of luck.

[Gee'in It Laldy]

Funnily enough I've just been doing the same and had a 5 day test of a 2005 210 works. It was all black with JCW seats, brakes, carbon wing mirros, full aerokit, chilli pack and a few other add ons. Stunning.

I've never driven a mini before this however I do currently drive a 190Celica T Sport which I've clocked at 0-60 in 6.8. Not a slow car by any means, if you know how to get the best from it. I attempted a couple of runs in the works to attempt to beat this but the biggest problem was traction. It is quite hard to get optimum traction on the launch. I achieved a 6.8 easily in the works wheel spinning far too much, but I'm sure it could be beaten with practice.

Traction was a constant problem I found on the move also. With the ASC turned on it simply killed the power if the wheels spun at all for a second or so. This was a constant pain so I ended up turning this off. This is the most obtrusive system I've ever come across and to be honest it can be quite dangerous. Try turning across the path of traffic to have almost all power cut for a second in the process. Scary.

Is it much quicker than a standard S? A 'comparison' on a long stretch of private road with a standard S from about 50-90 certainly suggested so. The following article which is worth a read and it certainly suggests that it is certainly a quick motor. The Works achieves some impressive acceleration figures against tough opposition.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/groupte...atchbacks.html

One of the greatest thing about this car was the exhaust system. I just loved the way it was loud but not in a boy racer nova way. The burbling and popping of it is simply immense. You can here it here

http://www.mini.co.uk/UK/en/john_coo.../tuningkit.jsp

This car is definately on my possible list for a new car, however I think I'll take out a standard S to see if I think it is worth the extra expense. After all, speed isn't everything.

[Eelke]

As for the traction problem, Mini is now offering an LSD as an option (or as part of an upgrade package). I think you actually need it to be able to spec the JCW kit when ordered from the factory.

[john_cook]

I just feel I should experience the Cooper S with the 210-220 bhp it deserves. To be honest i'm not a crazy driver who guns the throttle all the time, most of the time I drive it in a quite civilized manner! I know I will keep the cooper S for another 18 months, perhaps 24. I already know what my next car will be, its going to be a current generation BMW M3 (which I'm buying off my father).

I am going to get some new alloy wheels for the car tomorrow and even fancy getting the JCW leather seats. I always enjoy customising a car, my last car too. I think if the car gets 220 bhp I will have to give it a spin on the track to really see what she can do!

Cooky

[miha]

Hi Owners:

I own MSC for 60.000+ km now, of which last 14.000 was with JCW.
MCS is one cool car with nice power, however JCW is in completly different league !
If you only have one short experience, this might not be relevant.
Low-end, mid-range and SPECIALLY high-end in JCW are
phenomenal.
In everyday driving - I would never go back !
Consumption is marginally higher (0,2 l/100km - I am having exact statistics).
Bottom line: IF YOU CAN, YOU MUST !
Best regards : Miha

[Mike Edwards]

You didn't notice the rather more pronounced scream from the supercharger above 4500rpm at all?

The traction control on the Works feels a fair bit less intrusive when compared to what was there before on my March 2005 MCS.

[bimini]

i'd say on a short test drive on unfamilar roads its quite possible not to be able to see a dramatic difference, especially if the JCW has heavy wheels and the MCS has lighter ones.

Try one back to back with an MCS on a familar road where you can remember what gear gave you what acceleration and i think you'll feel the difference...especially at the top end where the stock mcs seems to feel a little athsmatic to start with and the JCW just pulls like a train all the way up to the softer rev limit.

As for the brakes, well i think they should really be part of the package...compared to the MCS's i've driven, they are a marked improvement...but again that is more evident when pushing the car.

There is the same problem that the MCS has where the traction control kicks in too heavily if you really dump the clutch on a lot of thottle...but good throttle control avoids this and its no different on an MCS except that its more likely to happen on launch and 1st-2nd changes if your abrupt with the clutch and throttle due to the extra power.

Perhaps one day we'll get 2 side by side and can do some real world tests to demonstrate the difference.

[john_cook]

Firstly I'd like to say thanks for eveyones comments, especially the Works drivers.

the car I drove was a black MCS Works (05) with JCW alloys/brakes. It looked the business! It sounded good, yes I said in an earlier post (twice!!) that the sound difference between the Works and the MCS was easily noticable.

But come on, one guy on here said I might not notice the difference if on unfamiliar roads or the weight of the alloy wheels was a factor!!! We are talking about a power increase of 47bhp for £3500! If u say that after the works kit is fitted that one can't the difference of 47 horses because of factors like that then there is something wrong with your nervous system!

It did feel a bit quicker but not nearly 50bhp. I was giving it some boot too. I reckon I will go for GTT or BBR as they will feel faster for less pennies. Will have to get a milltek to hear the difference tho!

Cook

[RedUn]

Quote: Originally Posted by john_cook

Firstly I'd like to say thanks for eveyones comments, especially the Works drivers.

the car I drove was a black MCS Works (05) with JCW alloys/brakes. It looked the business! It sounded good, yes I said in an earlier post (twice!!) that the sound difference between the Works and the MCS was easily noticable.

But come on, one guy on here said I might not notice the difference if on unfamiliar roads or the weight of the alloy wheels was a factor!!! We are talking about a power increase of 47bhp for £3500! If u say that after the works kit is fitted that one can't the difference of 47 horses because of factors like that then there is something wrong with your nervous system!

It did feel a bit quicker but not nearly 50bhp. I was giving it some boot too. I reckon I will go for GTT or BBR as they will feel faster for less pennies. Will have to get a milltek to hear the difference tho!

Cook

thing is real life there isn't 50bhp between the two, most std S's seem to pull about 170-180bhp and the works' pull 190-200, so say the std S u drove was a quick one and the works a not so quick on there mite only be 10bhp difference!

the aftermarket tuned cars do seem to produce better figures and also feel quicker due to the aftermarket not factory feel of the works.

I say the spend the 3.5k on some brakes, suspension and throw the rest at the engine

[bimini]

Quote: Originally Posted by john_cook

Firstly I'd like to say thanks for eveyones comments, especially the Works drivers.

the car I drove was a black MCS Works (05) with JCW alloys/brakes. It looked the business! It sounded good, yes I said in an earlier post (twice!!) that the sound difference between the Works and the MCS was easily noticable.

But come on, one guy on here said I might not notice the difference if on unfamiliar roads or the weight of the alloy wheels was a factor!!! We are talking about a power increase of 47bhp for £3500! If u say that after the works kit is fitted that one can't the difference of 47 horses because of factors like that then there is something wrong with your nervous system!

It did feel a bit quicker but not nearly 50bhp. I was giving it some boot too. I reckon I will go for GTT or BBR as they will feel faster for less pennies. Will have to get a milltek to hear the difference tho!

Cook

the difference unsprung wieght can make to feel and performance especially intertial stuff like wheels is quite considerable...when i used to run bikes the saying was a lb off a wheel was worth 10 horses at the engine...considering some wheels are 10lb each heavier than some others then it can make an impact.

But yours had JCW wheels, i dont know the weight but I assume they are on the light side. All i do know is that the MCS that i have had loaned have had the old JCW's and slites and jumping into mine after them my JCW felt 500lbs lighter just bimbling around the car park.

I also think that feel and performance can be mixed messages...unless your taking account of specific performance. Having driven stuff like old 300bhp Alpinas and ridden superbikes with 1/2 of that at the rear wheel i know that staggering performance can be easily hidden by a competant package...to the same end if i took you out in my old tuned Morris Minor you would feel the opposite...its only got 75hp but because of the way its tuned it feels like a 120.

The MCS is a very competent package (it only needs an engine and perhaps brakes changed and the rest is still capable of handling 150mph)...on my test JCW drive i saw off a Corrado VR6 with me, the missus and the dealer on board...but up until then it felt pretty sane

But if it aint for you, then you've got now excuse to put all that cash to good use on loads of other extras after you've had a GTT done

[Paul]

JCW Wheels:

18" x 7" JCW alloys fitted with 205/40 run flat tires:

R95 spider-spoke ET52 23.5lb (10.7kg) [silver only]

17" S-Spokes:

17" x 7" alloys fitted with 205/45 run flat tires:

R85 S-spoke (aka LeMans, S-lite) ET50 25.1lb (11.4kg) [silver, white]

From the wheel & tyres FAQ on MINI2.

[uncle albert]

God...I love the S-lite design, but why do they have to be so damn heavy?!

[bonz]

I just have to say once you go JCW U will never go back. The power band between 50-90 feels totally differant from my stk S. I drove my 02 for more than a yr before I did the JCW upgraded. I still smile when I put my foot to the floor.

[hyprblu]

Save yourself the money......go out and get a sports panel filter and a 17% reduced pulley....spend is around AUD$750.......and you get a big bang for your buck.....I just did with my 1 year old MCS and it goes like a train......totally different from stock car....and because I did it to my car which is the one I am used to......I really can tell the hugh difference............to get JCW here would have cost me AUD$10,000.