MINI2

Perm · Jan 12th, 2006, 04:28 PM

Can you help me decide ………

I have a BBR 220 converted car and am very happy with it……

However since getting the car converted, BBR have created an updated ECU map and will provide the update for £150.00 also I have become aware of MTH….

The question is, is getting the “latest” map from BBR or maybe MTH going to be money well spent...... ? At the back of my mind is the old saying “if it is not broken….. do not fix it! “.

Anyone give me any advise on what to do ?

Thanks

Perm

Root Ginger · Jan 12th, 2006, 04:49 PM

I'd be asking what does the new BBR Remap improve over the old one?

Perm · Jan 12th, 2006, 05:00 PM

I have asked the question........ did not get a clear answer to be honest, other than it is much improved software following a remapping exercise in early 2005.

Perm

Root Ginger · Jan 12th, 2006, 05:18 PM

Any dyno results plotting old and new maps? Oh and does it produce the same 220BHP?

Perm · Jan 12th, 2006, 05:25 PM

Root,
I am not aware of any dyno results.......... I will ask the question...... However I think I will be better off spending my money on GTT CAI...... an extra 10BHP .....

Root Ginger · Jan 12th, 2006, 05:30 PM

Yep sounds a far better bet to me. Have you seen Rolands recent thread on GTT CRI vs Stock vs JCW Airbox?

Rickys'S · Jan 12th, 2006, 06:16 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Perm

Can you help me decide ………

I have a BBR 220 converted car and am very happy with it……

However since getting the car converted, BBR have created an updated ECU map and will provide the update for £150.00 also I have become aware of MTH….

The question is, is getting the “latest” map from BBR or maybe MTH going to be money well spent...... ? At the back of my mind is the old saying “if it is not broken….. do not fix it! “.

Anyone give me any advise on what to do ?

Thanks

Perm

It it the Tuner file

shazam · Jan 12th, 2006, 10:19 PM

I wouldnt bother getting it, unless you get any other mods, in which case a remap may be worthwhile.

Can a CAI make 10 bhp? Or does it just sound like it.

I have the new map, so if you want to try it you can. Depends how far you are from Oxfordshire.

MINI-Morgan · Jan 12th, 2006, 10:36 PM

If its anything like the first BBR Map then it is MTH anyway.

supercharged99 · Jan 12th, 2006, 11:36 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by shazam

I wouldnt bother getting it, unless you get any other mods, in which case a remap may be worthwhile.

Can a CAI make 10 bhp? Or does it just sound like it.

I have the new map, so if you want to try it you can. Depends how far you are from Oxfordshire.

i have tested k&n panel filter /pipercross cone / k&n typhoon on my mini when it was running with the WEST TUNING 210 bhp package (it made 214 bhp on the day ).

i got the best gain from the TYPHOON CAI and that only made a further 1.2 bhp.

Perm · Jan 13th, 2006, 09:21 AM

Thanks all for your input..... I think I will keep with what I have and save up for the GTT CAI.....

See this thread for the 10BHP claim.....
http://www.mini2.com/forum/engine-drivetrain-tuning/107523-stock-v-john-cooper-works-v-gtt-air-filter-test.html

Rickys -> do you know for a FACT that BBR are using the MTH tuner file ????

Cheers

Perm

Perm · Jan 13th, 2006, 10:14 AM

Fiesta,

I have heard the same story.... i think when BBR developed their very original conversion they used a MTH map, however after that point they have used their own inhouse mapping
skills to develop their own version.

Pemr

stu(pid) · Jan 13th, 2006, 07:13 PM

I had the original BBR software and upgraded to the new BBR software. I find the power in the new version much more usuable. Before I had a big boost of power at about 4500rpm (I think) and the power was not really available below 3000rpm. With the new software, essentially the power delivery is smoothed out throughout the rev range with a nice steady increase in torque as the revs increase. Also, power is available from around 2000rpm. Personally, I think it was £150 well spent as I prefer the new characteristics of power delivery. However, if you prefer the higher reving type characteristics, then I suggest to stick with what you have.
Also, I found no change in fuel consumption with the new software.
I forgot to mention that this is all with the BBR phase 1 conversion.

Perm, you are correct about MTH. When Neil (BBR's mapping guru), first started the BBR project they asked MTH for a tuner file, and as BBR were a potential competing company, they were surprised that MTH gave them a file to try. Neil used this file as a "quick start" to see what parameter changed what areas in the mapping. He was quite prepared to start from absolute basics, but as MTH offered the file, then why not use it to learn? Neil then went on to completely write his own tuner file, and has since improved this file in the latest software. He has also written the software for the 240, 255, 270 bhp versions they offer and even the 300 bhp turbo software. I hope this sets the record straight?

Any questions on the software?

shazam · Jan 13th, 2006, 08:50 PM

Just read Rolands thread on the ram air thing- sounds good.

I must admit, when I put my std filter back in for the service, it did feel noticably slower compared to the K&N panel BBR installed, so maybe it is true.

Has anyone dynoed it, it all seemed like PSI comparisons.

Perm · Jan 14th, 2006, 11:27 PM

Stu,

Thanks for the input.

Two questions :

1) what fuel do you normally use (RON - Brand)
2) Did you car ever suffer from a flat spot when driving from cold ? ( only ever happends when the car is driven from cold and only happends one time per journey ). (this may not be a BBR map issue).Just wondering if this new map may help.

Cheers

Perm

shazam · Jan 14th, 2006, 11:53 PM

Perm

I had a flat spot at 5k revs- is this the same one?

It goes if you use 99ron Tesco's.

Rickys'S · Jan 15th, 2006, 09:41 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Perm

Thanks all for your input..... I think I will keep with what I have and save up for the GTT CAI.....

See this thread for the 10BHP claim.....
http://www.mini2.com/forum/engine-drivetrain-tuning/107523-stock-v-john-cooper-works-v-gtt-air-filter-test.html

Rickys -> do you know for a FACT that BBR are using the MTH tuner file ????

Cheers

Perm

No i don't mate, but do you know for a FACT that the bbr maps aren't MTH?????

It just sounds fishy to me.....thats all!

I will not say any more....

Hey Perm are you coming on 12th march??

stu(pid) · Jan 15th, 2006, 05:02 PM

Hi Perm.
Firstly, I use Tesco 99 RON fuel. I don't know if I have a flat spot when cold because I don't take it above 4000rpm or use full throttle for about 10-15 minutes when cold, to let the oil warm up. Once warm I have no flat spots anywhere.

shazam · Jan 15th, 2006, 09:01 PM

Stu

I think I may have the old map, did you have a flat spot at 5k befor the upgrade?

stu(pid) · Jan 15th, 2006, 09:18 PM

Hi Shazam.
Sorry I cannot say if I had a flat spot at 5k when cold for the reasons stated above. I certainly had no flat spot when warm!!

Jan 12th, 2006, 04:28 PM	#1
Perm MINI2 Senior Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nottinghamshire Local Time: 09:23 PM Posts: 490 Offline	Latest BBR software ? Can you help me decide ……… I have a BBR 220 converted car and am very happy with it…… However since getting the car converted, BBR have created an updated ECU map and will provide the update for £150.00 also I have become aware of MTH…. The question is, is getting the “latest” map from BBR or maybe MTH going to be money well spent...... ? At the back of my mind is the old saying “if it is not broken….. do not fix it! “. Anyone give me any advise on what to do ? Thanks Perm

Jan 12th, 2006, 04:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
Root Ginger Amiga 500 to PS3 20 Years Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Slough, Berkshire Local Time: 09:23 PM Posts: 4,634 Offline	I'd be asking what does the new BBR Remap improve over the old one? It was acceptable in the 80's

Jan 12th, 2006, 05:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
Root Ginger Amiga 500 to PS3 20 Years Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Slough, Berkshire Local Time: 09:23 PM Posts: 4,634 Offline	Any dyno results plotting old and new maps? Oh and does it produce the same 220BHP? It was acceptable in the 80's

Jan 12th, 2006, 05:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
Root Ginger Amiga 500 to PS3 20 Years Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Slough, Berkshire Local Time: 09:23 PM Posts: 4,634 Offline	Yep sounds a far better bet to me. Have you seen Rolands recent thread on GTT CRI vs Stock vs JCW Airbox? It was acceptable in the 80's

Jan 12th, 2006, 10:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
MINI-Morgan MINI Obsessed... My Classifieds Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Southampton, Hants Local Time: 09:23 PM Posts: 4,679 Offline	If its anything like the first BBR Map then it is MTH anyway. One Man, One Project......find out what happens next at MINIProject.co.uk For MINIs in the south it can only be South Coast New MINI Club

MINI2

Fuel for your MINI obsession

From air-filters to exhausts and all in between, discuss them here

Today
Sponsors	Sponsored Links Registered members do not see Google Ads posts, they can also post messages, pictures, and classified adverts. Register your free account today and become a member of MINI2 - MINI Forum

Jan 12th, 2006, 05:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
Perm MINI2 Senior Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nottinghamshire Local Time: 09:23 PM Posts: 490 Offline	I have asked the question........ did not get a clear answer to be honest, other than it is much improved software following a remapping exercise in early 2005. Perm

Jan 12th, 2006, 05:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
Perm MINI2 Senior Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nottinghamshire Local Time: 09:23 PM Posts: 490 Offline	Root, I am not aware of any dyno results.......... I will ask the question...... However I think I will be better off spending my money on GTT CAI...... an extra 10BHP .....

Jan 12th, 2006, 06:16 PM	#7 (permalink)
Rickys'S MINI2 Regular Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Nailsea Local Time: 09:23 PM Posts: 369 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Perm Can you help me decide ……… I have a BBR 220 converted car and am very happy with it…… However since getting the car converted, BBR have created an updated ECU map and will provide the update for £150.00 also I have become aware of MTH…. The question is, is getting the “latest” map from BBR or maybe MTH going to be money well spent...... ? At the back of my mind is the old saying “if it is not broken….. do not fix it! “. Anyone give me any advise on what to do ? Thanks Perm It it the Tuner file

Jan 12th, 2006, 10:19 PM	#8 (permalink)
shazam MINI2 Regular My Classifieds Join Date: Feb 2004 Local Time: 10:23 PM Posts: 377 Offline	I wouldnt bother getting it, unless you get any other mods, in which case a remap may be worthwhile. Can a CAI make 10 bhp? Or does it just sound like it. I have the new map, so if you want to try it you can. Depends how far you are from Oxfordshire.

Jan 12th, 2006, 11:36 PM	#10 (permalink)
supercharged99 clinton steenkamp Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: west yorkshire Local Time: 10:23 PM Posts: 228 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by shazam I wouldnt bother getting it, unless you get any other mods, in which case a remap may be worthwhile. Can a CAI make 10 bhp? Or does it just sound like it. I have the new map, so if you want to try it you can. Depends how far you are from Oxfordshire. i have tested k&n panel filter /pipercross cone / k&n typhoon on my mini when it was running with the WEST TUNING 210 bhp package (it made 214 bhp on the day ). i got the best gain from the TYPHOON CAI and that only made a further 1.2 bhp. yeeeeeehaaaaaaa DAMN THIS THING IS QUICK

Jan 13th, 2006, 09:21 AM	#11 (permalink)
Perm MINI2 Senior Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nottinghamshire Local Time: 09:23 PM Posts: 490 Offline	Thanks all for your input..... I think I will keep with what I have and save up for the GTT CAI..... See this thread for the 10BHP claim..... http://www.mini2.com/forum/engine-drivetrain-tuning/107523-stock-v-john-cooper-works-v-gtt-air-filter-test.html Rickys -> do you know for a FACT that BBR are using the MTH tuner file ???? Cheers Perm

Jan 13th, 2006, 10:14 AM	#12 (permalink)
Perm MINI2 Senior Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nottinghamshire Local Time: 09:23 PM Posts: 490 Offline	Fiesta, I have heard the same story.... i think when BBR developed their very original conversion they used a MTH map, however after that point they have used their own inhouse mapping skills to develop their own version. Pemr

Jan 13th, 2006, 07:13 PM	#13 (permalink)
stu(pid) MINI2 Regular Join Date: Oct 2001 Local Time: 09:23 PM Posts: 118 Offline	I had the original BBR software and upgraded to the new BBR software. I find the power in the new version much more usuable. Before I had a big boost of power at about 4500rpm (I think) and the power was not really available below 3000rpm. With the new software, essentially the power delivery is smoothed out throughout the rev range with a nice steady increase in torque as the revs increase. Also, power is available from around 2000rpm. Personally, I think it was £150 well spent as I prefer the new characteristics of power delivery. However, if you prefer the higher reving type characteristics, then I suggest to stick with what you have. Also, I found no change in fuel consumption with the new software. I forgot to mention that this is all with the BBR phase 1 conversion. Perm, you are correct about MTH. When Neil (BBR's mapping guru), first started the BBR project they asked MTH for a tuner file, and as BBR were a potential competing company, they were surprised that MTH gave them a file to try. Neil used this file as a "quick start" to see what parameter changed what areas in the mapping. He was quite prepared to start from absolute basics, but as MTH offered the file, then why not use it to learn? Neil then went on to completely write his own tuner file, and has since improved this file in the latest software. He has also written the software for the 240, 255, 270 bhp versions they offer and even the 300 bhp turbo software. I hope this sets the record straight? Any questions on the software?

Jan 13th, 2006, 08:50 PM	#14 (permalink)
shazam MINI2 Regular My Classifieds Join Date: Feb 2004 Local Time: 10:23 PM Posts: 377 Offline	Just read Rolands thread on the ram air thing- sounds good. I must admit, when I put my std filter back in for the service, it did feel noticably slower compared to the K&N panel BBR installed, so maybe it is true. Has anyone dynoed it, it all seemed like PSI comparisons.

Jan 14th, 2006, 11:27 PM	#15 (permalink)
Perm MINI2 Senior Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nottinghamshire Local Time: 09:23 PM Posts: 490 Offline	Stu, Thanks for the input. Two questions : 1) what fuel do you normally use (RON - Brand) 2) Did you car ever suffer from a flat spot when driving from cold ? ( only ever happends when the car is driven from cold and only happends one time per journey ). (this may not be a BBR map issue).Just wondering if this new map may help. Cheers Perm

Jan 14th, 2006, 11:53 PM	#16 (permalink)
shazam MINI2 Regular My Classifieds Join Date: Feb 2004 Local Time: 10:23 PM Posts: 377 Offline	Perm I had a flat spot at 5k revs- is this the same one? It goes if you use 99ron Tesco's.

Jan 15th, 2006, 09:41 AM	#17 (permalink)
Rickys'S MINI2 Regular Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Nailsea Local Time: 09:23 PM Posts: 369 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Perm Thanks all for your input..... I think I will keep with what I have and save up for the GTT CAI..... See this thread for the 10BHP claim..... http://www.mini2.com/forum/engine-drivetrain-tuning/107523-stock-v-john-cooper-works-v-gtt-air-filter-test.html Rickys -> do you know for a FACT that BBR are using the MTH tuner file ???? Cheers Perm No i don't mate, but do you know for a FACT that the bbr maps aren't MTH????? It just sounds fishy to me.....thats all! I will not say any more.... Hey Perm are you coming on 12th march??

Jan 15th, 2006, 05:02 PM	#18 (permalink)
stu(pid) MINI2 Regular Join Date: Oct 2001 Local Time: 09:23 PM Posts: 118 Offline	Hi Perm. Firstly, I use Tesco 99 RON fuel. I don't know if I have a flat spot when cold because I don't take it above 4000rpm or use full throttle for about 10-15 minutes when cold, to let the oil warm up. Once warm I have no flat spots anywhere.

Jan 15th, 2006, 09:01 PM	#19 (permalink)
shazam MINI2 Regular My Classifieds Join Date: Feb 2004 Local Time: 10:23 PM Posts: 377 Offline	Stu I think I may have the old map, did you have a flat spot at 5k befor the upgrade?

Jan 15th, 2006, 09:18 PM	#20 (permalink)
stu(pid) MINI2 Regular Join Date: Oct 2001 Local Time: 09:23 PM Posts: 118 Offline	Hi Shazam. Sorry I cannot say if I had a flat spot at 5k when cold for the reasons stated above. I certainly had no flat spot when warm!!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Bbr Racing Evo 2 Software	steve.deakin@blueyon	MINI Cooper S	4	Aug 31st, 2007 07:52 AM
BBR Mini Cooper S EVO-2 Software Only	TallAndy	Engine & Drivetrain Tuning	37	Jun 6th, 2006 08:26 AM
Should I ask for Latest ECU Software?	JG.26	Maintenance & MINI Care	1	Jul 13th, 2005 11:18 PM
Bbr Mini Cooper S Evo-2 Software Only	rene_73	Engine & Drivetrain Tuning	14	Mar 26th, 2005 10:38 AM
Software Revision - What is the latest one?	Tarnofsky	MINI Cooper	9	Jan 2nd, 2005 06:57 PM