[MarkW19]

...But I have to ask ...

Is Nitrous Oxide (NOS) in a Cooper a really bad idea? Say a 75-100bhp one... Even considering the Wizards of Nos say they've succesfully done some systems in a few new Coopers with no problems, and they say their power delivery is smooth/progressive unlike other NOS systems, and comes in at high revs, so it protects the engine and delivers the power safely?

Just a thought

[insane*mini]

Check out this thread. Also, search NAM, there are plenty of topics. NOS seems to be more used over on this side of the pond.

http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...&highlight=NOS

-Cody (cheap American *******s not making fast cars!)

[Paul Webster]

Mark,

Its not a stupid question if you can learn from others I believe that the cooper has cast pistons in it which could be more prone to damage this is a consideration when using high amounts of nitrous.

In our expeience at the present moment we have around 40 1/4 mile passes using a 100 shot from an american wet kit but this is on a totally stock Cooper S engine, we have improved our 1/4 mile times from a 14.4@93 to a 12.165 @ 111.68 ( 0-60 3.4 0-90 7.9 )

Usually damage occurs through a lack of knowledge about how a kit should operate or through pushing the envolpe to see how fast you can go, we use 450ish hp on a friends car and have never melted a piston.

What application do you want to use it for?

The biggest problem using nitrous is once you've had a taste, there is no going back

[MarkW19]

insanemini: thanks I'll check out the link!

1320: I have heard of piston problems and gearbox problems etc. when trying to push a Cooper too far (remembering I've also got the MTH remap, K&N Typhoon and Milltek catback, which would possibly put me at up to 140bhp [the MTH alone quotes at 135bhp]).

But, I've been on to the Wizards of NOS who seem to be the most reputable and experienced company, and they've suggested an electronic progressive controller, which changes the amount of NOS injected at different revs and delivers it smoothly, so its never just a big "hit" causing massive wear on the engine. Apparently this is a lot safer than most other (US and otherwise) systems available. I'd also be going for an 11lb bottle so that I don't have to re-fill all that often

They do say they've fitted systems to Coopers (non S's) in the past with no problems, but the last thing I want is to get it and then blow my engine up or have to spend extra money on it. Basically I don't want to abuse my car, so if the NOS will do that in any way then I won't do it. But, it seems NOS has come a long way recently with the "safe" progressive injection stuff, so I just thought I'd look into it.

I'd just want it for that extra power kick - overtaking, and the odd burst when driving hard/spirited (only at 4k revs and above though, as NOS can damage the engine at low revs). Perhaps 6 second bursts, 2 times a day maybe? As I don't "race" people off the lights or anything, I wouldn't be "launching" using NOS, so I'm assuming accelerating in 2nd/3rd with NOS is more manageable, smoother and safer than in 1st?

If I did it, I'd want to do either +50bhp (perhaps a bit too low for the trouble involved though), +75bhp (most likely) or +100bhp (probably pushing it a bit too much )

BTW, where do you get refills and how expensive are they??

Just a bit of a mad idea at the moment....

[:: Jon ::]

you may want to check with your insurance... as you may find they wont cover you...

NOS is highly flamable and added with if installed in the boot and you were involved in a rear end shunt the outcome could be very different as if it were not fitted..

[MINIMANIAUK]

Actually nos is not highly flammable,its inert ,the oxygen content is flammable but this is not released until the nos is in the cylinder- its the high temperature that releases the oxygen ,if your boot were to achieve this temperature your car would be burnt to a crisp anyway.true the cylinder is pressurised ,but they are made to withstand the pressure . it is far far more dangerous to carry bar b que gas bottles/petrol cans in your boot. nos is fine to use on the Mini ,I have it on my own car,you must inform your insurance company that it is fitted,have a compressed gas sticker,and it is only to be used off road .a controlled feed of nos is required,and lean condition protection (controller).works well cheapest power available,some would consider it "cheating",but hey power is power.for road use 30/50 shot is more than adequate,

[MarkW19]

Adrian Flux (who luckily I'm with) are one of the few UK insurers to insure JUST the Wizards of NOS (Highpower) systems. I'll get a quote from them I guess

MINIMANIA: The main thing I'm worried about is the Cooper engine, as opposed to the S. As I've heard problems with gearboxes and melted pistons etc. with even relatively minor mods taking the Cooper (or One) to 160/170bhp, obviously I'm concerned adding a 50-100bhp NOS kit (which would take my car to a maximum of maybe 245bhp while under Nitrous, with the 100 shot!!) will cause damage to my Cooper's engine. The S I'm sure is fine, but I am concerned with the apparent limitations of the Cooper, compared to the S.

How do you mean it should only be used off road?

[Paul Webster]

1320: I have heard of piston problems and gearbox problems etc. when trying to push a Cooper too far (remembering I've also got the MTH remap, K&N Typhoon and Milltek catback, which would possibly put me at up to 140bhp [the MTH alone quotes at 135bhp]).
I'm pretty sure that an MTH map like most maps will lean the fuel and bump the timing a bit, in otherwords you have no margin for errors. Our stock Cooper S ecu retards the timing from 21 at WOT to 10 with the nitrous activated and chucks in loads more fuel.
Yours should do this as well.

But, I've been on to the Wizards of NOS who seem to be the most reputable and experienced company, and they've suggested an electronic progressive controller, which changes the amount of NOS injected at different revs and delivers it smoothly, so its never just a big "hit" causing massive wear on the engine. Apparently this is a lot safer than most other (US and otherwise) systems available. I'd also be going for an 11lb bottle so that I don't have to re-fill all that often

How is it a lot safer, does it read its own oxgen sensor like the NX progressive controller, has it got a rpm on rpm off has it got a gear counter will it log your nitrous pressure while in use and your afr etc. etc. etc. go to www.fjoracing.com and you can download the NX progressive controller program.

They do say they've fitted systems to Coopers (non S's) in the past with no problems, but the last thing I want is to get it and then blow my engine up or have to spend extra money on it. Basically I don't want to abuse my car, so if the NOS will do that in any way then I won't do it. But, it seems NOS has come a long way recently with the "safe" progressive injection stuff, so I just thought I'd look into it.

I'm glad to hear that the fitting is no problem
A nitrous system is only as safe as its users understanding off it and its pistons capability. A 100 shot would be to much, as minimania has said he shoots 50 with out a problem.

I'd just want it for that extra power kick - overtaking, and the odd burst when driving hard/spirited (only at 4k revs and above though, as NOS can damage the engine at low revs). Perhaps 6 second bursts, 2 times a day maybe? As I don't "race" people off the lights or anything, I wouldn't be "launching" using NOS, so I'm assuming accelerating in 2nd/3rd with NOS is more manageable, smoother and safer than in 1st?

How long did it take you to get use to/bored of your current power?

If I did it, I'd want to do either +50bhp (perhaps a bit too low for the trouble involved though), +75bhp (most likely) or +100bhp (probably pushing it a bit too much )

See above; 50 tops.

BTW, where do you get refills and how expensive are they??

There's 4 companies around here near Santa Pod who do refills to all bottles both Trevors and US bottles roughly £5 a lb,

Just a bit of a mad idea at the moment....

Not mad at all

[MarkW19]

Cheers!

Obviously I'm after a MASSIVE kick when the NOS kicks in, do you really think +50bhp will do this and make a massive difference to acceleration from 4k revs and above? Basically is it worth all the expense, losing the whole of your boot space, the insurance increase, costs for refilling, and potential future problems/damage to the car?

I'm emailed Wizards of NOS with your questions about the "safety" of the unit.

If I go for the +50bhp shot, considering the pistons and gearbox issues (and probably other things) on the Cooper, and it's delivery 'smoothly' with an electronic controller at specific rpm etc., do you think I'll be ok? Or am I still risking it a bit, especially seeing as this will theoretically take me to up to 195bhp when using NOS?

And finally, I'd be getting an 11b bottle, so that'd be approx £55 per refill. With the +50bhp shot, approximately how long (in time) would you expect one bottle to last? As I said I'd be doing 5-10 second bursts at a time, in 2nd/3rd/4th.

Thanks

[Paul Webster]

Obviously I'm after a MASSIVE kick when the NOS kicks in, do you really think +50bhp will do this and make a massive difference to acceleration from 4k revs and above? Basically is it worth all the expense, losing the whole of your boot space, the insurance increase, costs for refilling, and potential future problems/damage to the car?

It will certainley make a difference The only problem I have is how will you maintain bottle pressure while you're on the way to work also how are you going to switch the bottle on if its in the boot, have you got very looonnnggg arms We've got our bottle mounted just in front of the passanger seat so we can turn it on when we want

I'm emailed Wizards of NOS with your questions about the "safety" of the unit.

I'm sure Trev will appreciate that

If I go for the +50bhp shot, considering the pistons and gearbox issues (and probably other things) on the Cooper, and it's delivery 'smoothly' with an electronic controller at specific rpm etc., do you think I'll be ok? Or am I still risking it a bit, especially seeing as this will theoretically take me to up to 195bhp when using NOS?

I've got 5 x Cooper engines lying around if that helps


And finally, I'd be getting an 11b bottle, so that'd be approx £55 per refill. With the +50bhp shot, approximately how long (in time) would you expect one bottle to last? As I said I'd be doing 5-10 second bursts at a time, in 2nd/3rd/4th.

In 10 secs you'll probably use about 1/2lb but its harder to keep bottle pressure up the emptier it gets, you should get 10 1/2 lb hits then refill

Thanks

No problem just rember these are just my opinions

[MarkW19]

1320: Thanks again

Are you saying that I'll only get 10 10-sec shots out of the 11lb bottle then, which costs £55 to refill?? That's £5.50 for each 10 seconds?

I've just been told by someone whose opinion I respect that I shouldn't go down the NOS route - he's heard of a few Coopers that WERE running just 50bhp shots, and the pistons melted due to the material they're made of. Also due to the limitations of the Cooper gearbox, he's also heard of a good few gearbox issues and problems due to just a 50bhp NOS shot.

Obviously upgrading pistons and gearbox is going to cost a hell of a lot, so with the above in mind (potential major problems, and someone who's had personal experience of Cooper problems with NOS; and also very expensive to refill as it doesn't last very long!), I may have to unfortunately leave it...for now

[Paul Webster]

1320: Thanks again

No Probs

Are you saying that I'll only get 10 10-sec shots out of the 11lb bottle then, which costs £55 to refill?? That's £5.50 for each 10 seconds?

10 x .5lb = 5lb then refill, its hard to get the bottle pressure up in the last 5lb

I've just been told by someone whose opinion I respect that I shouldn't go down the NOS route - he's heard of a few Coopers that WERE running just 50bhp shots, and the pistons melted due to the material they're made of. Also due to the limitations of the Cooper gearbox, he's also heard of a good few gearbox issues and problems due to just a 50bhp NOS shot.

I can't talk from experience here, but you have to ask what kits they are and how were they using them. look at mini mania he has had no problem. I've been thinking about it and we should build a nitrous'd one / cooper so we can find out what the limitations are.

Obviously upgrading pistons and gearbox is going to cost a hell of a lot, so with the above in mind (potential major problems, and someone who's had personal experience of Cooper problems with NOS; and also very expensive to refill as it doesn't last very long!), I may have to unfortunately leave it...for now

Sounds like you've made your decision, you were so near joining us on the darkside