MINI2

HarryHBMCC · Jul 24th, 2002, 03:32 PM

The outer diameter of 195/55R16 is much closer to 185/65R15 than it is to 175/65R15. Does anyone know why they downsized the standard 15" tires?

I'm looking into winter tires (I know, a long way off but it's fun to plan). The only winter tires (almost only tires period) that I've found in 175/65R15 are Vredestein Snowtracs, which are T rated. In 185/65R15, Vredestein has both T-rated Snowtracs and H-rated Wintracs, while Bridgestone, Dunlop and Michelin only have Q-rated winter tires in that size. I don't know how often I'll be over 160km/h in the winter, if any time, but I'd prefer not to have Q rated tires if possible.

I know Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3's (H rated) are available in 195/55R16 so an alternative to getting 15" rims and tires would be to put some M3's on my existing rims, though I might worry about salt damage to my 5-stars.

I want a narrower tire for winter which makes the 175 Snowtrac attactive. By the time you hit 185 width, it is just 10mm narrower than 195, not really much of a difference.

Any thoughts?

Harry

Apial · Jul 24th, 2002, 03:56 PM

I use 195/55 HR15s Michelin Pilot Alpins. They are brilliant in snow. I wouldn't worry about the width. Narrow tyres are good for cutting through the surface snow to the harder surface beneath. Thats a good idea for tread patterns not designed to grip on ice and snow. Wider tyres do not sink in so much. This is good if you don't want to bottom out. Best is a grippy tyre that doesn't sink.

I found out that driving 4x4s in extreme weather fitted with winter tyres, wider is best. The skinnier winter tyres used to give up once the snow had formed a wedge under the axle. This would leave me digging for 45 minutes to free myself. Some of the drifts I was driving through were rib height.

As far as grip is concerned the Alpins are truly remarkable.
It will be the design of the MINI that will be your Achilles Heel in the end. You can not expect a 2 wheel drive car of limited ground clearance to cope with the deep stuff, but you will be amazed at what it can do once shod with a decent set of snow tyres on depths of about 6 inches.

The only warning is that snow chains can not be fitted to sizes wider than 175. This will be relevant if in your area there is a legal requirement for them to be fitted on mountain roads. I can not comment on studded tyres as they are not legal for road use here.For my driving review of Michelin Alpin tyres click here.

HarryHBMCC · Jul 24th, 2002, 04:24 PM

Thanks for the review of the Pilot Alpins.

I guess I didn't think about the chains. I guess that might be one reason to downsize the standard 15's though I don't know how often they'd be used in the UK. Here in Ontario, at least in the south, I don't think either studs or chains are legal anywhere that I go. I'm not a ski buff so I don't generally head to the mountains in the winter.

If I can go 195 width then there is a lot more choice in H rated winter rubber. More choices...

Harry

Red & White Cooper 2 · Jul 24th, 2002, 05:10 PM

Quote:

The outer diameter of 195/55R16 is much closer to 185/65R15 than it is to 175/65R15. Does anyone know why they downsized the standard 15" tires?

You've got the question the wrong way round! The car was originally designed for the 15" wheels and tyres. Run flats were added fairly late in development. The 195/55R16s are too big - the greater diameter of the 16" run-flats eliminates the lower ride height given by the sports suspension. Why did they upsize the run-flats?

ezrally · Jul 24th, 2002, 05:53 PM

The only snow tyre around (at least N. America) in a 165/80-15 is a Nokian Hakka 09,nothing special in compound but is good in all conditions esp. deep snow.
I'm getting 185/65-15 Hakka Qs which are one of the best "studless" snows around, and are almost narrow enough for my personal taste. Check them out-search Nokian Tyres.
Good Luck!

HarryHBMCC · Jul 24th, 2002, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Red & White Cooper 2

You've got the question the wrong way round! The car was originally designed for the 15" wheels and tyres. Run flats were added fairly late in development. The 195/55R16s are too big - the greater diameter of the 16" run-flats eliminates the lower ride height given by the sports suspension. Why did they upsize the run-flats?

Hmm, I guess I didn't think of it that way! I just know that every tire place recommends 185/65R15s for those 15" wheels so I wondered why the stock tires seemed to be the odd ones out. I guess 175/65R15 is just an odd tire size for north america; of course, 195/55R16 is pretty odd too but not nearly as odd as the 15's.

Harry

HarryHBMCC · Jul 24th, 2002, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ezrally
The only snow tyre around (at least N. America) in a 165/80-15 is a Nokian Hakka 09,nothing special in compound but is good in all conditions esp. deep snow.
I'm getting 185/65-15 Hakka Qs which are one of the best "studless" snows around, and are almost narrow enough for my personal taste. Check them out-search Nokian Tyres.
Good Luck!

I don't think I quite want to go to 80 profile tires. I just traded in a Geo Metro on the Cooper; the Metro had 155/80R13's on it and I could practically feel the tires rolling over on hard cornering. 65 or 70 profile is about the most I'd want on this car.

It looks like Nokian has some T rated snow tires in addition to the Qs. The standard tires are H rated so I don't think I want to go as low as Q. The Hakka 1's come in 185/65R15 and 195/65R15, both T-rated, so that might be another good option. Hakka 10's come in 175/70R15, T-rated though they look pretty heavy duty.

Harry

ezrally · Jul 24th, 2002, 10:24 PM

I'm sure the winter tyre discussion and opinions will pick up when the weather cools off!

I have Bridgestone Blizzaks (WS 50-old tread pattern) and those are the first "studless" snow tyres I've had. They were 4 for price of 2 at Sears at springtime a couple of years ago. A closeout deal I think, that was the reason why I didn't get the Hakkapeliitta (went out to the garage to check the spelling again) Qs

I always got by on 08s,09s or 1s thinking the studless would wear out to fast but they don't if you corner lightly on pavement etc.
Once you try the "studless" option you really won't want to go back to the old compounds. I guess it depends on how much true snow/ice driving you do!

HarryHBMCC · Jul 25th, 2002, 07:52 AM

Last year it didn't snow much at all and I just had (new) all-seasons. On light amounts of snow all-seasons are fine but on a few of the bad storms I kissed my (now traded) car's steering wheel when I reached my destination. A hill was totally iced up on one occasion and when I crested the top all I could see through the white-out was flashing red emergency vehicle lights by all the cars crashed into the guardrails. I pressed on the brakes but there was nothing, no stopping ability at all, which probably turned out for the best as the car went straight instead of spinning which is what happens if just one wheel got some traction (no ABS or anything on this car, just new tires and brakes thankfully). There was enough space to get by at the bottom of the hill so I made it but for a while I thought I would be getting some insurance money on that car instead of a trade-in value...

I will definitely put on winter tires this year!!! I just have to decide between H-rated performance winter tires or more serious winter tires with handling penalties; 175, 185 width or 195 width; separate 15" rims or just put Dunlop Winter Sport M3s or Blizzak WS-50's on my existing rims.

Harry

azul68 · Aug 2nd, 2002, 07:50 PM

Does anyone know if I could put 205/16/15's on my standard Cooper rims? Snow is not a problem where I am. These are what BMW provided me for my 1997 318i with 8 spoke rims, but I'm not sure if they are wider. Anyone?

Bilbo Baggins · Aug 2nd, 2002, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by azul68
Does anyone know if I could put 205/16/15's on my standard Cooper rims? Snow is not a problem where I am. These are what BMW provided me for my 1997 318i with 8 spoke rims, but I'm not sure if they are wider. Anyone?

You need to check with the tire manufacturer to see what rim widths that tire will fit. Look for their web site.

ezrally · Aug 2nd, 2002, 10:13 PM

Go to Tire Rack.com, they have everything about fitments etc, plus alot of choices for the MINI- very comprehensive site...
205s will fit, not sure if that would tech. proper though. I've got 135s to fit on 6" wide wheels (w tubes) in a pinch.

Jul 24th, 2002, 03:32 PM	#1
HarryHBMCC MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Guelph, Ontario, Can Local Time: 08:42 AM Posts: 2,686 Offline	Why are 15" tires 175/65 instead of 185/15? Winter tire thoughts The outer diameter of 195/55R16 is much closer to 185/65R15 than it is to 175/65R15. Does anyone know why they downsized the standard 15" tires? I'm looking into winter tires (I know, a long way off but it's fun to plan). The only winter tires (almost only tires period) that I've found in 175/65R15 are Vredestein Snowtracs, which are T rated. In 185/65R15, Vredestein has both T-rated Snowtracs and H-rated Wintracs, while Bridgestone, Dunlop and Michelin only have Q-rated winter tires in that size. I don't know how often I'll be over 160km/h in the winter, if any time, but I'd prefer not to have Q rated tires if possible. I know Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3's (H rated) are available in 195/55R16 so an alternative to getting 15" rims and tires would be to put some M3's on my existing rims, though I might worry about salt damage to my 5-stars. I want a narrower tire for winter which makes the 175 Snowtrac attactive. By the time you hit 185 width, it is just 10mm narrower than 195, not really much of a difference. Any thoughts? Harry MINI Cooper Cabrio: now the car with go cart handling really feels like an open go cart! "... the only man that can come home at 3 am in the morning without getting into trouble with his spouse is the owner of a British sports car!" -- Phil Bailey

Jul 24th, 2002, 03:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
Apial MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Lincolnshire Wolds Local Time: 02:42 PM Posts: 826 Offline	I use 195/55 HR15s Michelin Pilot Alpins. They are brilliant in snow. I wouldn't worry about the width. Narrow tyres are good for cutting through the surface snow to the harder surface beneath. Thats a good idea for tread patterns not designed to grip on ice and snow. Wider tyres do not sink in so much. This is good if you don't want to bottom out. Best is a grippy tyre that doesn't sink. I found out that driving 4x4s in extreme weather fitted with winter tyres, wider is best. The skinnier winter tyres used to give up once the snow had formed a wedge under the axle. This would leave me digging for 45 minutes to free myself. Some of the drifts I was driving through were rib height. As far as grip is concerned the Alpins are truly remarkable. It will be the design of the MINI that will be your Achilles Heel in the end. You can not expect a 2 wheel drive car of limited ground clearance to cope with the deep stuff, but you will be amazed at what it can do once shod with a decent set of snow tyres on depths of about 6 inches. The only warning is that snow chains can not be fitted to sizes wider than 175. This will be relevant if in your area there is a legal requirement for them to be fitted on mountain roads. I can not comment on studded tyres as they are not legal for road use here.For my driving review of Michelin Alpin tyres click here. Balloons? http://www.loony-balloony.co.uk Last edited by Apial : Jul 24th, 2002 at 04:08 PM.

Jul 24th, 2002, 04:24 PM	#3 (permalink)
HarryHBMCC MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Guelph, Ontario, Can Local Time: 08:42 AM Posts: 2,686 Offline	Thanks for the review of the Pilot Alpins. I guess I didn't think about the chains. I guess that might be one reason to downsize the standard 15's though I don't know how often they'd be used in the UK. Here in Ontario, at least in the south, I don't think either studs or chains are legal anywhere that I go. I'm not a ski buff so I don't generally head to the mountains in the winter. If I can go 195 width then there is a lot more choice in H rated winter rubber. More choices... Harry MINI Cooper Cabrio: now the car with go cart handling really feels like an open go cart! "... the only man that can come home at 3 am in the morning without getting into trouble with his spouse is the owner of a British sports car!" -- Phil Bailey

Jul 24th, 2002, 05:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
ezrally MINI2 Senior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Delavan, WI Local Time: 07:42 AM Posts: 663 Offline	The only snow tyre around (at least N. America) in a 165/80-15 is a Nokian Hakka 09,nothing special in compound but is good in all conditions esp. deep snow. I'm getting 185/65-15 Hakka Qs which are one of the best "studless" snows around, and are almost narrow enough for my personal taste. Check them out-search Nokian Tyres. Good Luck! Jet Black MCS Lapis leather 17s or 15s (winter) no DSC

Jul 24th, 2002, 08:39 PM	#6 (permalink)
HarryHBMCC MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Guelph, Ontario, Can Local Time: 08:42 AM Posts: 2,686 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by Red & White Cooper 2 You've got the question the wrong way round! The car was originally designed for the 15" wheels and tyres. Run flats were added fairly late in development. The 195/55R16s are too big - the greater diameter of the 16" run-flats eliminates the lower ride height given by the sports suspension. Why did they upsize the run-flats? Hmm, I guess I didn't think of it that way! I just know that every tire place recommends 185/65R15s for those 15" wheels so I wondered why the stock tires seemed to be the odd ones out. I guess 175/65R15 is just an odd tire size for north america; of course, 195/55R16 is pretty odd too but not nearly as odd as the 15's. Harry MINI Cooper Cabrio: now the car with go cart handling really feels like an open go cart! "... the only man that can come home at 3 am in the morning without getting into trouble with his spouse is the owner of a British sports car!" -- Phil Bailey

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Jul 24th, 2002, 05:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
Red & White Cooper 2 MINI2 Senior Join Date: Dec 2001 Local Time: 01:42 PM Posts: 372 Offline	Quote: The outer diameter of 195/55R16 is much closer to 185/65R15 than it is to 175/65R15. Does anyone know why they downsized the standard 15" tires? You've got the question the wrong way round! The car was originally designed for the 15" wheels and tyres. Run flats were added fairly late in development. The 195/55R16s are too big - the greater diameter of the 16" run-flats eliminates the lower ride height given by the sports suspension. Why did they upsize the run-flats?

Jul 24th, 2002, 08:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
HarryHBMCC MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Guelph, Ontario, Can Local Time: 08:42 AM Posts: 2,686 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by ezrally The only snow tyre around (at least N. America) in a 165/80-15 is a Nokian Hakka 09,nothing special in compound but is good in all conditions esp. deep snow. I'm getting 185/65-15 Hakka Qs which are one of the best "studless" snows around, and are almost narrow enough for my personal taste. Check them out-search Nokian Tyres. Good Luck! I don't think I quite want to go to 80 profile tires. I just traded in a Geo Metro on the Cooper; the Metro had 155/80R13's on it and I could practically feel the tires rolling over on hard cornering. 65 or 70 profile is about the most I'd want on this car. It looks like Nokian has some T rated snow tires in addition to the Qs. The standard tires are H rated so I don't think I want to go as low as Q. The Hakka 1's come in 185/65R15 and 195/65R15, both T-rated, so that might be another good option. Hakka 10's come in 175/70R15, T-rated though they look pretty heavy duty. Harry MINI Cooper Cabrio: now the car with go cart handling really feels like an open go cart! "... the only man that can come home at 3 am in the morning without getting into trouble with his spouse is the owner of a British sports car!" -- Phil Bailey

Jul 24th, 2002, 10:24 PM	#8 (permalink)
ezrally MINI2 Senior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Delavan, WI Local Time: 07:42 AM Posts: 663 Offline	I'm sure the winter tyre discussion and opinions will pick up when the weather cools off! I have Bridgestone Blizzaks (WS 50-old tread pattern) and those are the first "studless" snow tyres I've had. They were 4 for price of 2 at Sears at springtime a couple of years ago. A closeout deal I think, that was the reason why I didn't get the Hakkapeliitta (went out to the garage to check the spelling again) Qs I always got by on 08s,09s or 1s thinking the studless would wear out to fast but they don't if you corner lightly on pavement etc. Once you try the "studless" option you really won't want to go back to the old compounds. I guess it depends on how much true snow/ice driving you do! Jet Black MCS Lapis leather 17s or 15s (winter) no DSC

Jul 25th, 2002, 07:52 AM	#9 (permalink)
HarryHBMCC MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Guelph, Ontario, Can Local Time: 08:42 AM Posts: 2,686 Offline	Last year it didn't snow much at all and I just had (new) all-seasons. On light amounts of snow all-seasons are fine but on a few of the bad storms I kissed my (now traded) car's steering wheel when I reached my destination. A hill was totally iced up on one occasion and when I crested the top all I could see through the white-out was flashing red emergency vehicle lights by all the cars crashed into the guardrails. I pressed on the brakes but there was nothing, no stopping ability at all, which probably turned out for the best as the car went straight instead of spinning which is what happens if just one wheel got some traction (no ABS or anything on this car, just new tires and brakes thankfully). There was enough space to get by at the bottom of the hill so I made it but for a while I thought I would be getting some insurance money on that car instead of a trade-in value... I will definitely put on winter tires this year!!! I just have to decide between H-rated performance winter tires or more serious winter tires with handling penalties; 175, 185 width or 195 width; separate 15" rims or just put Dunlop Winter Sport M3s or Blizzak WS-50's on my existing rims. Harry MINI Cooper Cabrio: now the car with go cart handling really feels like an open go cart! "... the only man that can come home at 3 am in the morning without getting into trouble with his spouse is the owner of a British sports car!" -- Phil Bailey

Aug 2nd, 2002, 07:50 PM	#10 (permalink)
azul68 MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: San Diego, California Local Time: 05:42 AM Posts: 2 Offline	Does anyone know if I could put 205/16/15's on my standard Cooper rims? Snow is not a problem where I am. These are what BMW provided me for my 1997 318i with 8 spoke rims, but I'm not sure if they are wider. Anyone?

Aug 2nd, 2002, 09:55 PM	#11 (permalink)
Bilbo Baggins MINI2 Master Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Shire, Middle Earth Local Time: 09:42 AM Posts: 8,854 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by azul68 Does anyone know if I could put 205/16/15's on my standard Cooper rims? Snow is not a problem where I am. These are what BMW provided me for my 1997 318i with 8 spoke rims, but I'm not sure if they are wider. Anyone? You need to check with the tire manufacturer to see what rim widths that tire will fit. Look for their web site. Motor on, Dudes and Dudettes!!! '06 MCS SB/S '02 MCS DS/W (retired)

Aug 2nd, 2002, 10:13 PM	#12 (permalink)
ezrally MINI2 Senior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Delavan, WI Local Time: 07:42 AM Posts: 663 Offline	Go to Tire Rack.com, they have everything about fitments etc, plus alot of choices for the MINI- very comprehensive site... 205s will fit, not sure if that would tech. proper though. I've got 135s to fit on 6" wide wheels (w tubes) in a pinch. Jet Black MCS Lapis leather 17s or 15s (winter) no DSC

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