[colin guy]

Hey all,

My unofficial plan is to take a used Mini Cooper (save some money from the supercharger in exchange for a turbocharger) and turn it into exactly what I want; a high performance, track-worthy, street machine. As I'm the kind of person to research something to the death, I've a few driveline questions:

1- As the Cooper will come with the 5-speed, I will want to swap that out for the 6. Should I go to the stock 6-speed, or is there an aftermarket company I should be looking at. Better yet, is it possible to retro-fit the 6-speeds into the 5-speed tranny?*NOTE: I would be upgradding the clutch on it as well to handle the additional power I have planned

2- In 2007 Mini is going to an aluminium block for their engines. While I don't know if it's a completely different engine or not, I do know that they are also opting for the turbo set-up. Thus said, I would want to ditch the heavy stock engine for the lighter version, but...
a- is it the same engine w/ a new block? *do a block swap
b- is it a completely different engine?

3- Does anyone have any addiotnal information on the Getrag Traxxter AWD system for the Mini's? I have the test review from Getrag themselves (as a PDF) on my computer, but I was wondering if anyone has attempted to contact Getrag themselves.

I think that's it for now for my questions. Thanks in advance for thoes who reply.


-Colin

[Humourl3ss]

Regarding #2, it's an entirely new block/new design.

BTW, your project sounds expensive. Why not just buy an S, modify, and be done with it?

[colin guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Humourl3ss

BTW, your project sounds expensive. Why not just buy an S, modify, and be done with it?

The main downside to superchargers is their permanancy; let me explain. Once you turn the key, your power is already activated, and such - you have to deal with more fuel consumption. As well, while you are able to change pully ratios, once you've done so - again, it's a consistant change.

In light of turbochargers, you're able to determine when your power generates by spool size (same as supers), but also in blow-off valves and multi-stage turboswhere you're able to control by the flip of a switch how much boost you want to run (i.e., street mode, and competition mode).

The reason for my preference is that this car will be used as a daily driver, but I want it to be a performance machine for novice racing.

In light of cost; somone on this forum was selling a 6-speed tranny for $500 USD (cheap), so I was just wondering as to the durability / performance (ex. gear ratios) of the stock transmission as opposed to an aftermarket one.

Really, with the sale of the stock engine / transmission, and many other components of the vehicle that I'll be changing, the total cost isn't really all that bad. As well, with the vehicle being both used, and the base Cooper, I'm saving approx. $6,000 CDN + as compared to the S model.

-Colin

[Humourl3ss]

Sorry, I guess I didn't make my point clear, and you never mentioned a turbo upgrade in your first post. Why not just remove a supercharger from an S and then turbocharge the remaining block? Then you have the engine internal work already taken care of (with concomitant cost savings versus doing it yourself), you can sell the SC, and you don't need to do the tranny swap. Sounds like a more cost effective solution to me, since the potential cost savings of a tranny will be eaten up with shipping, labour and exchange (let's assume you're not relegated to paying an import duty as well). Last time I checked an AutoTrader issue, the difference between an MC and MCS of similar vintage, mileage and option set was between $4,000 and $5,000, not $6,000.

Plus you'll already have the battery switched to the back for you.

[colin guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Humourl3ss

Sorry, I guess I didn't make my point clear, and you never mentioned a turbo upgrade in your first post.

I too must appologize for the lack of clerity regarding the turbocharger upgrade, but I am consistantly finding the Cooper's (at their very cheapest) going for $19,000 CDN, and the Cooper S at approx. $25,000.

Given that stock 6-speeds are available for $750-ish, that's another five thousand to put into a nice turbocharger set-up. As well, while the battery would be already in the rear of the vehicle, I would be able to do such a thing for far less than what I'd be paying for the S / getting back from the sale of the supercharger.

I suppose my viewpoint is that of - the less I buy, the less I have to sell - as my intentions are as follows:

- lighten up the vehicle (i.e., remove rr bench, alum. block, replace driver / passenger seasts with composate racing buckets)

- make it AWD (idealy through the Getrag set-up, or else fabing in Subaru components)

- more power through a multi-stage turbo

The looks department will actuially come first (no, not because I'm a poser) but because the airdamn will be functional to vent the large water to air intercooler system.

Thus, as you can see a lot will be comming out of the car, I don't deem it reasonable to spend additional money on such components and features I will not take atvantage of (if not removing them all together).

Which brings me back to my original post in that I am not aware of the durability and capability of the stock transmission in handeling a lot of power or if I should be looking at an aftermarket solution. Many thanks go to you for clerifying that the enigne is all new, and that if I do want the aluminum block, I will be selling the entire stock engine anyways. The only question that is left unanswered so far is in regards to the Getrag AWD setup, and any available information regarding it.


Thanks again for all your input so far,

-Colin

[St00ge]

i've heard a minute amount of info on the Getrag 4WD on MINI2. I'd suggest popping onto NAM and having a look there.

By the way, the 6,000 you save from buying a Cooper over a Cooper S will be spent on the following, right?

Upgraded Cylinder Head, gaskets, pistons, rods, valves, ECU mapping etc etc.
New turbocharger and all the components to go with it.
New gearbox and clutch.

The Cooper S engine can take a hell of a lot of beating. So can the clutch and gearbox. I personally think you'd better off ripping the supercharger out and going with an S.

By the way, what you say about the supercharger using it's power all the time, is not necessarily true. Getting a smaller pulley actually makes the car more efficient at low revs. Its only at the higher revs that the smaller pulley robs you of power and fuel. However, i agree totally that a turbo set up is preferred, as superchargers "drag" on the engine and rob power, whereas turbos don't.

BBR do a turbo-only conversion as well, you might want to have a look at their site and see what they have to offer.

[colin guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by etalj

By the way, the 6,000 you save from buying a Cooper over a Cooper S will be spent on the following, right?

Upgraded Cylinder Head, gaskets, pistons, rods, valves, ECU mapping etc etc.
New turbocharger and all the components to go with it.
New gearbox and clutch.

BBR do a turbo-only conversion as well, you might want to have a look at their site and see what they have to offer.

Percicely; for the list of parts which I'll change. While I do understand that the S model comes with a factory tuned version of all of the above, I would bet my bottom dollar that when pushing very high boost they would be insufficient (as Im sure they're designed to handle slightly more boost than what the engine is producing).

In addition, Im very much interested in having the all aluminum block engine (for weight savings and a new design which produces more torque - ideal for a turbo set-up) so I'm actuially thinking of selling the entre engine / transmission assembaly and going from there. Part of me wishes that the Mini One was available in Canada to save me a little more money, but that's not the case.

In regards to BBR, I've actuially already contacted them regarding their 300HP Mini, but even after asking directly which set-up they use (turbo only/ twin charge/ super only) they refused to disclose any information to me. I did however see stats on a twin-charge kit from the US producing the same numbers (a set-up I don't want) so I assumed they were doing the same.

Though it may seem as if I'm shooting your ideas down, I really do appreciate them as you are all Mini owners and I'm sure there are other things which I have not already thought of (which could potentially throw off my entire plan, ect.)


Thanks to all and keep the comments comming,
-Colin

[St00ge]

not at all mate, it's ur ideas, and i'm only giving advice..good luck with it all

[Bilbo Baggins]

There are at least one thing that I would like to point out. The MCS has the added strength of a forged crankshaft and connecting rods along with special high strength pistons.

It just sounds like you are starting with one foot already in a hole if you start with a MC instead of a MCS.

I'll agree with the others that say to start with an MCS and take off the supercharger if you really do not want it.

Just as you can choose to not use the boost from a turbocharger you do not need to use all of what the supercharger has to offer. By learning control of your right foot you can dial in as much preformance as you wish, or as much fuel savings.

Just how much do you think that you will be able to get a 2007 engine for? It won't be $6,000!!! Even if you were able to find a wrecked one it is going to be more than that. Then, of course, you will have to wait for someone to wreck their new car. I can hear the conversation now, "Hey, I hear that you just wrecked your new MINI. Did you damage the engine or tranny? Can I buy it? I'll give you $500 and I'll take it away for you."

If you are lucky you might be able to beat the solicitor that is chasing the ambulance.

[SalemMINIDriver]

I wouldn't take it as a given that the '07+ engine will fit the earlier cars. Also, where you are planning on building an engine that will produce twice the power that its engineers intended, wouldn't you sleep easier knowing that the block was cast iron rather than aluminum?

I'd be very surprised if Subaru drivetrain bits will work as they are designed around a longitudinal engine. Where do you intend to route your exhaust on converting to AWD?

All in all this sounds like a very ambitious project. Have you done anything like this before? Are you sure that a MINI is the best starting point? You mention that your goal is a track-worthy vehicle. I love my MINI, but FWD is wrong-wheel-drive on the race track. Maybe a BMW 2002 or early 3-series?