[jrozario]

This is the 1st car I have owned or driven for appreciable miles (750 mi - 2006 MCSC with JCW kit) with a drive by wire throttle.

I have a '93 BMW 325IS, and compared to my BMW, my MINI's throttle seems to have a significant lag from when I depress it from a standing start to when I feel the engine gain power. So, I have following questions:

1) Is this my imagination or is there a perceptible lag in throttle response on the MINI?
2) Does this response change over time as the DME / ECU learns one's driving style?
3) How does the MINI's drive by wire throttle compare to other cars such as a M3?

Thanks in advance for answering these questions.

[St00ge]

how does it compare? it sucks.

The mini's off-idle throttle response is terrible, but its not all down to the bywire technology, its probably more to do with the parasitic drag of the SC on a small 1.6L engine that's under vacuum. An ecu remap will enhance this response.

[Root Ginger]

Well the MINI's fly by wire throttle is faster than any wired throttle I've driven. The revs dropping slowly is a characteristic of the MINI's engine, supercharged or not. In fact I think my Cooper is actually worse than my S for dropping revs.

The thing I find is that very little movement creates throttle which I love. I can't stand cars that have a big dead spot where you have to take up the throttle cable slack before the car starts to rev. I've always had to adjust my throttle cables so they're pre-tensioned for instant throttle.

[christy]

SLOW it is. we've had an E46 M3 which was always on sport mode so as it make it comparable to the modded S2000 that came before it. They were lighting fast and resposive and the 06 JCW we have is evidence for the theory of relativity. I find that one needs to be deliberate and slow with throttle modualtions or else the car can get confused and surge or just not do what your right foot wants it to do. This is my opinion, the male.


My wife whom the car belongs to says, "stop your whining! it's no sports car. If you want something with fast throttle response, go and get yourself an M3 or something."



She had the M3 before the mini and prefers the mini over the M3. She found the M3 a stressful car to drive and the mini more fun.

"The M3's like a racehorse that always wanted to go, felt comfortable only going over 160km/h, and jerky/clumbsy at city speeds. Triple digit speeds felt like 50km/h and all the other cars on the road were just getting in the way. The mini is toned down unlike the high strung M3. The mini doesn't have the power of the M3 but handles faster more suited to sane city speeds. The mini is comfortable driven casually without feeling awkward and at the same time can be driven more aggressively when desired. It's a fun spirited car. The M3 is all about power and built for a single purpose,".

[Berthil]

I have a ECU remap and (MTH) and 15% pulley, throttle reponse has no lag and engine is also quick at dropping the revs when shifting. There is a lot to say about MTH, their customer service and their over-estimated power gain, but these bits are good.

[Root Ginger]

I think everyone is getting confused here. The throttle response of the fly by wire and the response of the engine are two entirely different things. Remember the engines were nothing to do with BMW. That deal was done while Rover were in charge. That is why the engine is now being changed for the BMW unit.

I would expect the MINI has the exact same system as other BMW's for the fly by wire but mated to an entirely different type of engine makes all the difference.

[Minnington]

Quote: Originally Posted by Root Ginger

I think everyone is getting confused here. The throttle response of the fly by wire and the response of the engine are two entirely different things.

Correct. Fly by wire throttles are driven by servo motors in conjunction with a potentiometer. In english, when you push the throttle it takes readings to see were it is, and then the servo opens the throttle to the correct place. The more readings it takes the better it is, but that takes a more powerful 'brain'. Powerful brains cost more money, so we're stuck with a horrible soggy throttle.

Your average driver doesn't notice it normally, its only picked up by those of us who like a sharp throttle response.

Yes a remap does make the engine a bit sharper, but as Root Ginger says, that is nothing to do with fly by wire. The engine just responds better, to the soggy throttle......

[St00ge]

this is what i experience. my alta CAI makes the sucking noises quite quickly, indicating that the throttle plate is opening as it should, but my engine response is woeful, not to mention a few other (most likely related) problems. What can cause poor engine response in MCSs?

[jrozario]

Thank you all for your perspectives. This lag probably adds precious time to 0 - 60 number. I am also worried about the lag from a standstill when I have to stop and start on the steep hills of San Francisco.

I was hoping this behaviour changes as the ECU learns one's driving habit, but from the comments, it appears to be a permanent condition which I have to learn to live with, as I love everything else about my MINI.

[Root Ginger]

Incidently the JCW Cooper has a modified throttle whereby full throttle is achieved at around 80% of pedal travel as opposed to 100%. Took some getting used when I got my S as I'd got used to not having to push the throttle to the floor to get full power.

I've driven the JCW S and this has the normal 100% throttle though. AFAIK the Cooper was the only car they did this on.

[Penguinracer]

The solutions to the MCS's tardy throttle response are not cheap but they do exist:

(1) lightweight flywheel; and

(2) smaller supercharger pulley (improves bottom-end & mid-range).

Sure the flywheel is an expensive job & would probably only appeal to the motorsport enthusiast but while you're at it a new clutch can go in plus the Quaife LSD!

[ta-boo]

Hi Everyone! I'm Ta-boo and I have a stunning mini 1979 1100 model. I just love it!!! Its probably the best looking mini in South Africa.

I'm currently experiencing problems with it though BUT there's no way i'm selling it! The major problem is that it overheats all the time thereby blowing the head gasket. I dont know if I should either buy a new engine or take it for engine reconditioning. Any advise will be appreciated as its just sitting in the garage right now. It also refuses to start at all. Even when I try to kick start it. Could it be the starter?

Your feedback will be appreciated so that I can get my baby back on the road...

[Baker]

A MTH Tuner remap makes the throttle response instant, as well as giving you more power and better traction control... best way to go.

[MarkW19]

Quote: Originally Posted by Baker

A MTH Tuner remap makes the throttle response instant, as well as giving you more power and better traction control... best way to go.

I am considering this, mainly to reduce (eliminate?) the throttle lag I've noticed in the Works when compared to my Cooper, and to give a bit more power...but it seems a bit silly to overwrite the official JCW remap with the warranty, that I've paid a lot of money for, with a remap from a small German company?!

I've also noted like RootGinger says, that in my Cooper (mod'd) full throttle was at about 80% of pedal travel, while in my S it's all the way.

[Baker]

It puts the JCW upto about 230 BHP as well so its worth it in more ways than one.. and the dealer can't tell that its on unless they have to send you ECU file back to Germany for any reason, or unless they're for some reason driving your car over 7000 RPM.

MTH are far from small; dealers all over the world, and have quite a big name in BMW and Porsche tuning in Germany...

[MarkW19]

So the dealer definitely can't tell it's on unless they have to send my file to Germany? Which is very unlikely...

Is there the possibility of them overwriting the file when my car goes in though? If so, it's a 21/2 hour drive to Simon@EssentialMINI to sort it out

Will I definitely see an improvement? Mainly to the throttle lag, and perhaps a bit more power?

[Baker]

Very rare for them to overwrite it, no need to.

Definately will see an improvement, to throttle lag, more power, more noise, etc etc.

[MarkW19]

No throttle lag? Hmm might just have to do it.

Must admit I had the MTH Tuner remap on my Cooper, and when I had it taken off (for sale) I couldn't tell the difference. So wouldn't do it again on a Cooper.

What noise increase will I get?

I'm just thinking if they reset my ECU if I complain about a problem or something, just out of habit or whatever.

[Baker]

If you could not tell the difference on your Cooper, I'd suggest that you had an old ECU version from Mini - and should have upgraded to the latest to get the best effect from it. It does make a big difference to Coopers.

Noise, you'll get an exhaust noise slight increase, with a bit more burble.

[MarkW19]

I thought I could tell a difference at first, but I was just a feeling which I didn't really miss when I went back to standard..

If BMW do an "ECU" reset (ie when you'd feel the car a bit slower as it has to 'learn' your driving again), does this mean they've overwritten my remap? Or do you have to do something ELSE to overwrite it, ie. not just a reset?

If I get more burble/pops and exhaust noise then perhaps this mod will mean I don't have to mess around with a straight-through JCW pipe as well?