[Gr1zzLy]

Just wondering whether there are any reviews on this. I read in one of the posts that it's LOUD when it's combined with the Miltek cat-back. I'm running the JCW exhaust, and looking at installing this manifold... so anyone got any information other than the standard MTH spiel?

[Berthil]

That would be me, with the MTH header and Milltek catback. And yes it's loud.

In our NewMINIclub there was someone with a MTH header and JCW exhaust (he now has a GP). It is also loud but not too loud. At the end of our dyno-day movie you hear it roaring away (black cabrio). Unfortunately I missed him in the dyno day line-up. The louder your hear the dyno in the movie, the more silent is the exhaust.

BTW, MTH did't prove any of their claimed hp-gains that day, many have MTH. Nevertheless, the MTH header feels very good with good torque gain at the lower revs. I know that the Milltek header and catback combination does not give you that.

[MiniFr34k]

tbh... i dont think the mth /miltek is that loud anymore

[THE ITCH]

Quote: Originally Posted by Berthil (original)

That would be me, with the MTH header and Milltek catback. And yes it's loud.

In our NewMINIclub there was someone with a MTH header and JCW exhaust (he now has a GP). It is also loud but not too loud. At the end of our dyno-day movie you hear it roaring away (black cabrio). Unfortunately I missed him in the dyno day line-up. The louder your hear the dyno in the movie, the more silent is the exhaust.

BTW, MTH did't prove any of their claimed hp-gains that day, many have MTH. Nevertheless, the MTH header feels very good with good torque gain at the lower revs. I know that the Milltek header and catback combination does not give you that.

Berthil
Would you happen to know if that MTH/JCW combiation was still running with the resonator intact or if it was removed? Thanks Steve

[Boddington]

Could anyone comment on how easy it is to fit a header / manifold please? Is it the sort of job your local garage could do, or does it really need a mini specialist (eg Lohen or someone). Much as I like the guys at Lohen, the 2 hour return journey on a Saturday is not ideal! Cheers.

[Berthil]

Quote: Originally Posted by THE ITCH (original)

Berthil
Would you happen to know if that MTH/JCW combiation was still running with the resonator intact or if it was removed? Thanks Steve

Whats the Resinator? He just used 'stock' JCW exhaust and unaltered MTH Exhaust, so I asume with Resonator. That's the first damping device after the header with cat?

I think any (good) garage can switch a header. You need to remove some heatshields to get the header out. Also bring some new plates that go between header and engine, and header and exhaust (donnow the English word for it). But you get the MTH header with the tuner file, not only change the header.

The same guy on the with the JCW exhaust and MTH header now has a GP. He has put the MTH header on his GP, but still without the MTH software. It brings little power gain without the soft. He also put in some sound deadening in the back of his GP

[MINIMANIAUK]

To replace the header/manifold is not a very hard job and any garage can do it, there is more to a manifold than its noise level! its design is critical , pipe diameter,length,and collectors all combine to maximise the engine performance, old conventions have it that 4-1 manifolds are for high rpm benefits and 4-2-1 are for lower/mid range benefits, but with a 4-2-1 you have the capability to move the torque peak point up/down by design. the 4-2-1 works as an extractor ,sucking the air through the head,hence works very well on the one/cooper keeping the air velocity high, however it also works very well on the S despite the fact it is supercharged and air velocities higher, partly due to the poor original design of the head(singlecam),and partly due to the poor intake route twisting back and forth doing 180s (they had no choice due lack of space)
The benefits of the 4-1 manifold are not always felt unless the engine is in a state of tune that matches it ,although there is a noise increase! in road use regardless of the tune the 4-2-1 gives results,
The 4-1 does however work well with modified head/valves/exhaust/the smaller pulleys 17 % 0n,at the high rpms.
there are lots of one/cooper owners who replace the exhaust with a less restrictive one,yes they work but struggle to gain 5-6 bhp,but few replace the manifold where the benefit is greater,and then fit a 4-1manifold , when what they need is an extracting manifold,

[THE ITCH]

Quote: Originally Posted by Berthil (original)

Whats the Resinator? He just used 'stock' JCW exhaust and unaltered MTH Exhaust, so I asume with Resonator. That's the first damping device after the header with cat?

I think any (good) garage can switch a header. You need to remove some heatshields to get the header out. Also bring some new plates that go between header and engine, and header and exhaust (donnow the English word for it). But you get the MTH header with the tuner file, not only change the header.

The same guy on the with the JCW exhaust and MTH header now has a GP. He has put the MTH header on his GP, but still without the MTH software. It brings little power gain without the soft. He also put in some sound deadening in the back of his GP

Berthil
Yes the resonator is the first dampening device after the cat. Some people remove it for less restriction and more noise. Putting the MTH on a GP is actually what I was thinking. I would love to hear what this sounds like. Does this person visit this website, I would love to discuss this with him. If not does he have an E-mail adress? Possibly you could PM me that if available. Thanks Steve

[Gr1zzLy]

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMANIAUK (original)

To replace the header/manifold is not a very hard job and any garage can do it, there is more to a manifold than its noise level! its design is critical , pipe diameter,length,and collectors all combine to maximise the engine performance, old conventions have it that 4-1 manifolds are for high rpm benefits and 4-2-1 are for lower/mid range benefits, but with a 4-2-1 you have the capability to move the torque peak point up/down by design. the 4-2-1 works as an extractor ,sucking the air through the head,hence works very well on the one/cooper keeping the air velocity high, however it also works very well on the S despite the fact it is supercharged and air velocities higher, partly due to the poor original design of the head(singlecam),and partly due to the poor intake route twisting back and forth doing 180s (they had no choice due lack of space)
The benefits of the 4-1 manifold are not always felt unless the engine is in a state of tune that matches it ,although there is a noise increase! in road use regardless of the tune the 4-2-1 gives results,
The 4-1 does however work well with modified head/valves/exhaust/the smaller pulleys 17 % 0n,at the high rpms.
there are lots of one/cooper owners who replace the exhaust with a less restrictive one,yes they work but struggle to gain 5-6 bhp,but few replace the manifold where the benefit is greater,and then fit a 4-1manifold , when what they need is an extracting manifold,

Sorry if this sounds like I'm repeating what you're saying.. but I'm still a little confused...

A 4-2-1 is good for road use, and a 4-1 is good for track or conditions of high rpm?

[MINIMANIAUK]

correct for a road car 4-2-1 and for the one/cooper road or track 4-2-1, for a track car with complementary tuning then the 4-1 works well , We have seen mixed results with the 4-1 on the S but consistant gains with 4-2-1. In theory the 4-1 should work with the faster moving gasses on the S and not require scavenging ,but doesnt seem to work with all combos of tune

[cristo]

in the spirit of propaganda, let's keep posting stuff about 4-2-1 headers, and maybe
more vendors will start making them for us.

[Gr1zzLy]

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMANIAUK (original)

correct for a road car 4-2-1 and for the one/cooper road or track 4-2-1, for a track car with complementary tuning then the 4-1 works well , We have seen mixed results with the 4-1 on the S but consistant gains with 4-2-1. In theory the 4-1 should work with the faster moving gasses on the S and not require scavenging ,but doesnt seem to work with all combos of tune

If that's the case, then how come on some "reports" the MTH header (4-1) produces a feeling of more torque over the standard header (4-2-1)? Wouldn't torque from my understanding tends to be more for line starts/pulling, and more consistent for4-2-1, therefore general road use, or am I totally off track?

Also, why don't aftermarket tuners make better 4-2-1 headers?

[MiniFr34k]

grizz

4-2-1 = more mid range torque.. sorta runs out of puff towards 6-7k rpm i think, so for road this is good coz your hovering around this rpm range

vs.

4 - 1 = more umph in the later rpms.. ideal for track coz you stay in higher rpms (5.5k - 7k rpm) about 90% of the time.. which doesnt happen on street..

[MINIMANIAUK]

Grizzly The standard manifold is not a 4-2-1 its a 4-1 even on the one /cooper,its universal across the range as stock, the manufacture uses different criteria ; cost being the primary one, noise is also an issue ,as are emissions, so they come up with a one fits all answer even though there is a large difference between the one and the GP.
its not hard to see why the aftermarket manifolds out perform the stock 4-1 , I believe the JCM is a 4-2-1 and I can see why they went down this route

[petervankessel]

The guy Berthil was talking about now had the MTH maifold and tunerfile on his GP. Sounds great not too loud. He has dampened the sound a bit with dynamat and undercarpet because he drives over 20,000mls a year and uses the mobile phon quite often in the GP.

A bit too silent for my taste but hey, i drive a convertible with a complete Milltek system so everything is quiet compared to my MCSC .