MINI2

minioneandrew · Oct 23rd, 2006, 08:59 PM

HI folks!
Was thinking about getting bluefin for my ONE! However have just read about MTH? just a few questions:
1) How much does it cost all in (including cable), as i would be happier installing it myself?
2) Where can i buy it from a reputable dealer in the UK?
3) Can the MTH map be overwritten back to BMW stock at any time and with ease? (dont wanna void warranty)
My main reason for switching from bluefin is because i read that they can write maps specifically for your modifications? I also read that the extra power kicks in before bluefin on the rev range? A power graph would be really helpful!
Cheers guys!
Andy

CoolCarStuff · Oct 23rd, 2006, 09:36 PM

Answers inline...

1) How much does it cost all in (including cable), as i would be happier installing it myself? Checkout EssentialMINI or one of the "Alternative" MTH dealers web sites. Yes, if you have a laptop or a long cable(

) do it yourself...

2) Where can i buy it from a reputable dealer in the UK? EssentialMINI

3) Can the MTH map be overwritten back to BMW stock at any time and with ease? (dont wanna void warranty) YES - you backup your original software before sending it to MTH for a remap... so you can restore thsi anytime you want.

My main reason for switching from bluefin is because i read that they can write maps specifically for your modifications? MTH are masters of the custom remap, and would expect greater flexibility from that angle than bluefin... I may be wrong there... its just more go for MTH with an MCS anyway!

I also read that the extra power kicks in before bluefin on the rev range? A power graph would be really helpful! I would expect the powercurve of Bluefina nd MTh to be very similar as they are juggling with the same variables...

CC07ERS · Oct 23rd, 2006, 09:41 PM

are you telling the insurance com pany i think not join the club

Berthil · Oct 24th, 2006, 12:49 AM

MTH doesn't feel bad but it doesn't show in power graphs (and certainly doesn't reach the promised hp), hence the comparison on one day (in two hours) and same dyno:

Cooper S comparison Dyno for Power
Cooper S comparison Dyno for Torque
Cooper comparison Dyno for Power
Cooper comparison Dyno for Torque

There has been a second dyno day recently and it was disappointing again. One of our members has a GP and has put a MTH manifold and special MTH GP software in it. He was promised 247 hp. The dyno showed 210 hp.

DaFlake · Oct 25th, 2006, 08:12 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by minioneandrew (original)

(dont wanna void warranty)

I like this line. If you flash the ECU, you have pretty much done that. Changing it back may hide the fact that you did it, but your warranty should still be voided. The difference is if you have the conscious to tell them you did it or not. I mod my car, I take the risk, not the dealer.

Anyway, MTH is a good solution that is a bit more customized to your mods....

Berthil did point out great points. Don't fall for the ads on hp gain as they are not realistic. MTH is just good to let your car know "what" you have in it thus hopefully increase your performance a little.

venox22 · Oct 25th, 2006, 11:39 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Flakemeister (original)

I like this line. If you flash the ECU, you have pretty much done that. Changing it back may hide the fact that you did it, but your warranty should still be voided. The difference is if you have the conscious to tell them you did it or not. I mod my car, I take the risk, not the dealer.

Anyway, MTH is a good solution that is a bit more customized to your mods....

Berthil did point out great points. Don't fall for the ads on hp gain as they are not realistic. MTH is just good to let your car know "what" you have in it thus hopefully increase your performance a little.

agreed!!!

CoolCarStuff · Oct 25th, 2006, 12:04 PM

Agreed..esp re HP gains... which kinda covers all similar mods... no two cars or dyno's are the same.

One big plus, certainly for the MCS owner is the MTH does make the car significantly smoother to drive than the stock maps. When I first drove a MCS I was appauled as to how rough around the edges the drive was...especially for a BMW product... (ok - dont shout at me...) ...even the koreans make smooth driving cars now... he, he !

Using something like Digimoto or an AP22 is a great way of doing a before and after case... at least that way, irrespective of the absolute values, it shows what the change has done....

It s all fun in the end...

DJ

DaFlake · Oct 25th, 2006, 12:07 PM

Very true and I couldn't be more pleased with MTH. The car is more aggressive at lower RPMs, DSC is less intrusive and it is much smoother.

Berthil · Oct 25th, 2006, 12:25 PM

I'm also pleased with the torque gain, smoother ride and less intrusive DSC values of the MTH software.
I have had some changes and updates from MTH because of hardware changes and this doesn't seem to bring anything.
The dyno days showed that MTH MINI's run too rich on fuel (10%). I guess this is some kind of safety margin MTH builds in because no car is the same and MTH cannot measure your engine characteristics by e-mail (outlet temp etc.)
That's why I will do a few more hardware changes the coming months and then will go to a tuner who will write tailor made software with the MTH file as a starting point. I have found two tuners who can do that and have done that already, with dyno's before and after to prove the hp gain.

I also agree with the warranty thing.
Keep away from modding if you want to fool the dealer.

venox22 · Oct 25th, 2006, 12:28 PM

sounds interesting, keep us posted!!

Bajanmini · Oct 25th, 2006, 12:38 PM

What do you guys think about MTH for the cooper,i've got on a Pipercross pk222 induction , borla cat back and a set of Bridgestone Potenza's.My aim is that smoothness and the torque to kick in a bit earlier,no intention to race but i love to drive the car,it's on the list for Xmas.Thanks in advance

CoolCarStuff · Oct 25th, 2006, 01:27 PM

I personally cant comment on the cooper... sorry...

Guys with MCS - given the comment about 10% richer.... any views on the change to overall fuel consumption?

Dj

Japper · Oct 25th, 2006, 01:45 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by DJBlack (original)

I personally cant comment on the cooper... sorry...

Guys with MCS - given the comment about 10% richer.... any views on the change to overall fuel consumption?

Dj

I agree with the comments above. Mine feels a little faster, certainly more torque lower down and much smoother. Fuel consumption is better on a run but around 10% worse in urban driving.

Japper.
06 HB/W MCS

DaFlake · Oct 25th, 2006, 01:51 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Bajanmini (original)

What do you guys think about MTH for the cooper,i've got on a Pipercross pk222 induction , borla cat back and a set of Bridgestone Potenza's.My aim is that smoothness and the torque to kick in a bit earlier,no intention to race but i love to drive the car,it's on the list for Xmas.Thanks in advance

Drove a MC on a run with MTH and it was really nice. I think that it is a great upgrade for the Cooper.

It will definetly make it a more aggressive car. 10% sounds about right.

Berthil · Oct 25th, 2006, 05:37 PM

10% richer is at higher revs under stress (dyno).

Day to day driving is the same fuel consuption, maybe even a bit less. The fuel is there when you put the pedal to the metal and ofcourse then fuel consuption is higher the with the standard map, apart from the fact that is runs 10% too rich at the top end.

Oct 23rd, 2006, 08:59 PM	#1
minioneandrew MINI2 Regular My Classifieds Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ayrshire Local Time: 09:40 PM Posts: 329 Offline	MTH remaps HI folks! Was thinking about getting bluefin for my ONE! However have just read about MTH? just a few questions: 1) How much does it cost all in (including cable), as i would be happier installing it myself? 2) Where can i buy it from a reputable dealer in the UK? 3) Can the MTH map be overwritten back to BMW stock at any time and with ease? (dont wanna void warranty) My main reason for switching from bluefin is because i read that they can write maps specifically for your modifications? I also read that the extra power kicks in before bluefin on the rev range? A power graph would be really helpful! Cheers guys! Andy

Oct 24th, 2006, 12:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
Berthil MINI2 Master Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sittard (NL) Local Time: 10:40 PM Posts: 759 Offline	MTH doesn't feel bad but it doesn't show in power graphs (and certainly doesn't reach the promised hp), hence the comparison on one day (in two hours) and same dyno: Cooper S comparison Dyno for Power Cooper S comparison Dyno for Torque Cooper comparison Dyno for Power Cooper comparison Dyno for Torque There has been a second dyno day recently and it was disappointing again. One of our members has a GP and has put a MTH manifold and special MTH GP software in it. He was promised 247 hp. The dyno showed 210 hp. EB/W R53 MCS Highly Modified

Oct 25th, 2006, 08:12 AM	#5 (permalink)
DaFlake Lovin' every MINI of it! Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hanging on The Cape! Local Time: 04:40 PM Posts: 11,037 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by minioneandrew (original) (dont wanna void warranty) I like this line. If you flash the ECU, you have pretty much done that. Changing it back may hide the fact that you did it, but your warranty should still be voided. The difference is if you have the conscious to tell them you did it or not. I mod my car, I take the risk, not the dealer. Anyway, MTH is a good solution that is a bit more customized to your mods.... Berthil did point out great points. Don't fall for the ads on hp gain as they are not realistic. MTH is just good to let your car know "what" you have in it thus hopefully increase your performance a little. Global Moderator

Oct 25th, 2006, 12:04 PM	#7 (permalink)
CoolCarStuff Flying Scotsman My Classifieds Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sunny Scotland Local Time: 09:40 PM Posts: 238 Offline	Agreed..esp re HP gains... which kinda covers all similar mods... no two cars or dyno's are the same. One big plus, certainly for the MCS owner is the MTH does make the car significantly smoother to drive than the stock maps. When I first drove a MCS I was appauled as to how rough around the edges the drive was...especially for a BMW product... (ok - dont shout at me...) ...even the koreans make smooth driving cars now... he, he ! Using something like Digimoto or an AP22 is a great way of doing a before and after case... at least that way, irrespective of the absolute values, it shows what the change has done.... It s all fun in the end... DJ Last edited by CoolCarStuff : Oct 25th, 2006 at 01:26 PM.

Oct 25th, 2006, 12:07 PM	#8 (permalink)
DaFlake Lovin' every MINI of it! Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hanging on The Cape! Local Time: 04:40 PM Posts: 11,037 Offline	Very true and I couldn't be more pleased with MTH. The car is more aggressive at lower RPMs, DSC is less intrusive and it is much smoother. Global Moderator

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Oct 23rd, 2006, 09:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
CoolCarStuff Flying Scotsman My Classifieds Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sunny Scotland Local Time: 09:40 PM Posts: 238 Offline	Answers inline... 1) How much does it cost all in (including cable), as i would be happier installing it myself? Checkout EssentialMINI or one of the "Alternative" MTH dealers web sites. Yes, if you have a laptop or a long cable( ) do it yourself... 2) Where can i buy it from a reputable dealer in the UK? EssentialMINI 3) Can the MTH map be overwritten back to BMW stock at any time and with ease? (dont wanna void warranty) YES - you backup your original software before sending it to MTH for a remap... so you can restore thsi anytime you want. My main reason for switching from bluefin is because i read that they can write maps specifically for your modifications? MTH are masters of the custom remap, and would expect greater flexibility from that angle than bluefin... I may be wrong there... its just more go for MTH with an MCS anyway! I also read that the extra power kicks in before bluefin on the rev range? A power graph would be really helpful! I would expect the powercurve of Bluefina nd MTh to be very similar as they are juggling with the same variables...

Oct 23rd, 2006, 09:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
CC07ERS TYPE R GT VTEC POWERED My Classifieds Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Type R GT Local Time: 09:40 PM Posts: 2,718 Offline	are you telling the insurance com pany i think not join the club

Oct 25th, 2006, 11:39 AM	#6 (permalink)
venox22 only the brave! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lincs Local Time: 10:40 PM Posts: 1,290 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Flakemeister (original) I like this line. If you flash the ECU, you have pretty much done that. Changing it back may hide the fact that you did it, but your warranty should still be voided. The difference is if you have the conscious to tell them you did it or not. I mod my car, I take the risk, not the dealer. Anyway, MTH is a good solution that is a bit more customized to your mods.... Berthil did point out great points. Don't fall for the ads on hp gain as they are not realistic. MTH is just good to let your car know "what" you have in it thus hopefully increase your performance a little. agreed!!!

Oct 25th, 2006, 12:25 PM	#9 (permalink)
Berthil MINI2 Master Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sittard (NL) Local Time: 10:40 PM Posts: 759 Offline	I'm also pleased with the torque gain, smoother ride and less intrusive DSC values of the MTH software. I have had some changes and updates from MTH because of hardware changes and this doesn't seem to bring anything. The dyno days showed that MTH MINI's run too rich on fuel (10%). I guess this is some kind of safety margin MTH builds in because no car is the same and MTH cannot measure your engine characteristics by e-mail (outlet temp etc.) That's why I will do a few more hardware changes the coming months and then will go to a tuner who will write tailor made software with the MTH file as a starting point. I have found two tuners who can do that and have done that already, with dyno's before and after to prove the hp gain. I also agree with the warranty thing. Keep away from modding if you want to fool the dealer. EB/W R53 MCS Highly Modified

Oct 25th, 2006, 12:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
venox22 only the brave! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lincs Local Time: 10:40 PM Posts: 1,290 Offline	sounds interesting, keep us posted!!

Oct 25th, 2006, 12:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
Bajanmini MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jul 2006 Local Time: 05:40 PM Posts: 137 Offline	What do you guys think about MTH for the cooper,i've got on a Pipercross pk222 induction , borla cat back and a set of Bridgestone Potenza's.My aim is that smoothness and the torque to kick in a bit earlier,no intention to race but i love to drive the car,it's on the list for Xmas.Thanks in advance

Oct 25th, 2006, 01:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
CoolCarStuff Flying Scotsman My Classifieds Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sunny Scotland Local Time: 09:40 PM Posts: 238 Offline	I personally cant comment on the cooper... sorry... Guys with MCS - given the comment about 10% richer.... any views on the change to overall fuel consumption? Dj

Oct 25th, 2006, 01:45 PM	#13 (permalink)
Japper MINI2 Master My Classifieds Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Oil Country Local Time: 09:40 PM Posts: 1,041 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by DJBlack (original) I personally cant comment on the cooper... sorry... Guys with MCS - given the comment about 10% richer.... any views on the change to overall fuel consumption? Dj I agree with the comments above. Mine feels a little faster, certainly more torque lower down and much smoother. Fuel consumption is better on a run but around 10% worse in urban driving. Japper. 06 HB/W MCS 06 HB/W MCS Chilli

Oct 25th, 2006, 01:51 PM	#14 (permalink)
DaFlake Lovin' every MINI of it! Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hanging on The Cape! Local Time: 04:40 PM Posts: 11,037 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Bajanmini (original) What do you guys think about MTH for the cooper,i've got on a Pipercross pk222 induction , borla cat back and a set of Bridgestone Potenza's.My aim is that smoothness and the torque to kick in a bit earlier,no intention to race but i love to drive the car,it's on the list for Xmas.Thanks in advance Drove a MC on a run with MTH and it was really nice. I think that it is a great upgrade for the Cooper. It will definetly make it a more aggressive car. 10% sounds about right. Global Moderator

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Oct 25th, 2006, 05:37 PM	#15 (permalink)
Berthil MINI2 Master Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sittard (NL) Local Time: 10:40 PM Posts: 759 Offline	10% richer is at higher revs under stress (dyno). Day to day driving is the same fuel consuption, maybe even a bit less. The fuel is there when you put the pedal to the metal and ofcourse then fuel consuption is higher the with the standard map, apart from the fact that is runs 10% too rich at the top end. EB/W R53 MCS Highly Modified

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