[Ven0m]

PM'd u

[Haggi]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ven0m (original)

PM'd u

not got it ?

[Ven0m]

have now

[GTT 280]

For me, a RR is a tool to assist in the fine tuning of the engine build, not to check the max bhp - that's merely a side benefit.

It can certainly map out the torque and bhp curves relative to rpm, regardless of the actual figures.

For me, my car is **** fast, having driven a few 280 and 300 bhp cars previously (non MINI) i can saftely say this car is 260bhp+ so i wouldn't use a RR to tell me that.

I may use a RR to show me my power curves, and more interestingly I would use OBDII to monitor my ECU variables to assess where problem attributes existed (if any ).

But as for the maxed out bhp acheivable on the day, well, i'd rather have a bottle of Best Double Ale!!! and polish the paintwork.

Cheers,
K.

[roland2003]

Actually I will guarantee the car wont hit 220bhp on this companys RR aswell ! This is common practice in the tuning buisness if you have your own rolling road. You 'prove' how underpowered a competitors conversion is, get the customer all wound up & 'anti that tuner'. Next you offer to increase the power 'properly' (possibly an expensive remap for example...?.),charge a handsome sum for the privilage,then you do another run on the rollers to demonstrate (prove) the new much increased power. The reality is the run is doctored on the initial run to under read, and doctored the other way on the final run to make it over read. I can right you a book on various ways this can be achieved & the hawk eyed customer will be none the wiser! As you've disclosed its a GTT conversion perhaps we could know who the Mini tuner is whose already got the poor RR printout pinned on the wall a week before the cars even come in.!
On the other hand it is possible (if the car feels slow, though your mate says it doesnt ?) that you have a fault with your car. If this is the case putting it on the Rolling Road is the last thing you want to do. You must bring the car to us & we will check it over FREE OF CHARGE. Putting it on RR could cause serious engine damage ,and we will not cover anything under warranty if you ignore this advice and stick it on the rollers anyway. As everyone on here knows we help everyone, theres no need to pre-empt a problem when there there isnt one.
Best Regards Roland GTT
ps Its also worth reading the notes regarding RR's and power on our website. Its all there to help.

[Ven0m]

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

Actually I will guarantee the car wont hit 220bhp on this companys RR aswell ! This is common practice in the tuning buisness if you have your own rolling road. You 'prove' how underpowered a competitors conversion is, get the customer all wound up & 'anti that tuner'. Next you offer to increase the power 'properly' ,charge a handsome sum for the privilage,then you do another run on the rollers to demonstrate (prove) the new much increased power. The reality is the run is doctored on the initial run to underread, and doctored the other way on the final run to make it overread. I can right you a book on various ways this can be achieved & the hawk eyed customer will be none the wiser! As you've disclosed its a GTT conversion perhaps we could know who the Mini tuner is whose already got the poor RR printout pinned on the wall a week before the cars even come in.!
On the other hand it is possible (if the car feels slow, though your mate says it doesnt ?) that you have a fault with your car. If this is the case putting it on the Rolling Road is the last thing you want to do. You must bring the car to us & we will check it over FREE OF CHARGE. Putting it on RR could cause serious engine damage ,and we will not cover anything under warranty if you ignore this advice and stick it on the rollers anyway. As everyone on here knows we help everyone, theres no need to pre-empt a problem when there there isnt one.
Best Regards Roland GTT

Roland...

I never mentioned GTT in any of the above,just the mods which have been done,but as i have now mentioned GTT i will also mention Minispeed which i popped into yesterday as they are 2 mins away from my work place,i was enquiring about brakes,gauges etc when i mentioned i have already had done 220bhp and this was when i was told that i would only get 190 max.My orginal post was asking if a RR could be made to under achieve figures for the purpose of fooling the customer into thinking that they have not got what they expect so that they can work on your car to then magically get the results you want to see and of course spend lots of money with them,as you have already stated in your post that this is possible.

I have never said i think my car feels slow,since it has been tuned by yourself the car feels quicker and more eager through the rev range and i was very happy with the service you provided and would certainly stay a customer of yours,its just when you get told by another tuning company that they can prove that i only have 190 bhp instead of 220 which i paid for it does bring doubts into my mind.

[Ven0m]

Roland...

Could you make a little room in your inbox so i can reply to your message

Ta

[roland2003]

...they were one of the two companys I had suspected.
If it feels right and your happy with it ,for the sake of things staying that way ,(and in view of what they said to you), I would recommend you keep the car away from there. I've known faults to
' appear' with previous work carried out ,after going into a competitors premises behind closed doors for 'new work.'
- I know Im being paranoid now. doing it all far too long now (yawn).
Take care, Best Regards Roland GTT

[supercoopers]

I'd listen to Roland Venom...been there, done that got the T-Shirt etc.

If it isn't broke or running badly, don't try to fix it. Rather, if you're chasing more power, get some headwork and the intercooler done instead of wasting more money in what is in effect a circular process (you're probably near-as-dammit to 220bhp on the road, unless, as Roland says, there's a fault with your car). Even a a slightly leaky intercooler boot will make it run weak.

It's possible that you've become accustomed to the power. That's fine, I've experienced the same thing in the past as well. My warning, however, is to not try to get validation of a previous tuners' conversion from a competitor...It's not going to happen in most cases. Roland will commend good engineering of competiors' products where due and won't just immediately begin to slate the product in question, unlike other tuners I've been to.

Finally, if you are chasing a dyno figure with this car, you are in for a world of financial pain and disappointment! They don't dyno well a) and b) you need to go twincharge or single turbo for it to produce very big figures on the dyno for 'pub talk' purposes

In summary, save your money head back to GTT for a free diagnosis and plan for some extra work to be done if all that the problem isthat you've gotten used to the power already

Cheers,

Henry

Have to agree with roland on this one! Some tuners will use all sorts of tactics to help
you part with your hard earned cash! And at the end of the day it can be a Dyno lottery!!!!
One company saying this is the best way to get power, speak to another and they NO!

And yes, could be bad news putting a car under that kind of pressure if its not in
the best of health.

Regards
Dean

[Ven0m]

Quote: Originally Posted by supercoopers (original)

I'd listen to Roland Venom...been there, done that got the T-Shirt etc.

If it isn't broke or running badly, don't try to fix it. Rather, if you're chasing more power, get some headwork and the intercooler done instead of wasting more money in what is in effect a circular process (you're probably near-as-dammit to 220bhp on the road, unless, as Roland says, there's a fault with your car). Even a a slightly leaky intercooler boot will make it run weak.

It's possible that you've become accustomed to the power. That's fine, I've experienced the same thing in the past as well. My warning, however, is to not try to get validation of a previous tuners' conversion from a competitor...It's not going to happen in most cases. Roland will commend good engineering of competiors' products where due and won't just immediately begin to slate the product in question, unlike other tuners I've been to.

Finally, if you are chasing a dyno figure with this car, you are in for a world of financial pain and disappointment! They don't dyno well a) and b) you need to go twincharge or single turbo for it to produce very big figures on the dyno for 'pub talk' purposes

In summary, save your money head back to GTT for a free diagnosis and plan for some extra work to be done if all that the problem isthat you've gotten used to the power already

Cheers,

Henry

Yes thats the problem,it doesn't take long before we get used to the extra power and then start thinking it feels slow,then when you get told by another company that your not producing the power that you thought it should be producing the doubts start creeping in.Same thing happened when i had my subaru,i had lots of power mods done to it and 6 months down the road i thought it was slow...several trips later down to various rolling roads just to confirm that the power is as it should be,just time and money wasted proving this...and now i have had my original question answered that RR's can be made to produce figures that benifit them so you part with your hard earned cash i don't think i'll bother.

Still find it strange that Minis don't do well on RR's though.all cars suffer from heat soak and the RR's that i have been to all provide good cooling for your cars

Think i'll take up Rolands offer of a free inspection and discuss where i can go from here,uprated Ic,manifold etc and stay clear of other tuning companies opinions and RR's

[vikingboy]

My 2005 210 bhp was on rollinr road a few days ago and only did 160 bhp @ wheels and 183 bhp @ fly?

What do you think?

[Jove]

I had my car on the rollers a while ago got poor figures... Then took it up to Santa pod a couple of weeks later very happy with the performance.

Take it to the track it's the only way to do it!