[Garfield]

Ok folks, here's the end result:

Long Story Short: The 8 discs is optimum, which I can live with sound wise as well, how convienient. By changing from 4 discs to 8 discs dynos an extra 5hp/5lbft.

So, for rough numbers from my dynos, the results are as follows.

STOCK:
Peak HP - 118hp
Peak Torque - 113lb/ft.

Supertrapp w/ 8 Discs
Peak HP - 131hp
Peak Torque - 126lb/ft.

Obviously these numbers seem low because it's the power at the wheels and in 90 degree F, with about 85% humidity.

So your total gain from a Supertrapp in 13hp/13lbft.
Oh, and I'm not unhappy about the sound anymore.

BTW, if you're in the Maryland area and looking for a place to Dyno, contact York Automotive in Mt. Airy, MD. He's a road racer so he's glad to help performance enthusiasts.

[Garfield]

By the way, I just realized something. That 13hp is at the wheels. That means approximately a 25hp increase at the crank. Sounds rediculous, but I've dynoed it too many times to say it's not right.
Now I just have to see if the G-Tech times reflect it. Gotta wait for a 78 deg F time to do it to somewhat match the last ones.

[Albert]

25hp at the crank? I thought that parasitic drag loss when comparing HP at the wheel vs. the crank was only 25% at most.

[PghArch]

Well, if the stock configuration measured 118 at wheels and would have reached 163 at flywheel then using the same proportion gets me 18 hp increase at the engine. (about 30% loss) Of course, rumor has it that the official specs are a bit conservative, and weather is a factor, etc. so it is hard to know for sure.

[paulmon]

Garfield, very interesting information. I like how the cooper S stock pipe comes out of the center. Any way to get the supertrapp to come out the center and not the side? It seems the pipe after the cat goes off to the right rear side to connect to the stock can. Do you think it would take much to align things so the supertrapp ends up coming out the center like the stock Cooper S tips?

How much did the supertrapp set you back if you don't mind me asking?

Cheers!

Paul

[Garfield]

The Supertrapp can't come out the center because of it's length (17.5") and the battery box being in the way.

Now I can't even figure out how I got that number. Let's try this again.

17.35 hp at the crank.

17.35 - 25% = 13hp at the wheels.

Does that sound better?

Going from 118 to 131 is an 11% increase in hp.

[Garfield]

To the top since I see more talk about exhausts recently.

[ghillie]

Garfield,

Are these results with everything stock but the supertrapp?

Have you dyno'ed it with an intake? And can you post the dyno charts?

THX

[Garfield]

No intake. Stock with exception to Enkei RPO-1 wheels in 16x6.5, 45mm offset, 14.5lbs, with Falken Azenis 215/45R16 tires.
The damn dyno chart files are too huge, I sent them to "911ETR", ask if he's posted them somewhere. Perhaps on their site, but I haven't seen them yet.

Brian

[DerekR]

Brian

Very interesting results! Have you run the G-Tech on the car yet? I replaced the stock back boxes with a 2.5-inch Dynomax box in the same position as the S'trapp would be and measured a best time of 7.1 seconds for 0-60 with a G-Tech. This was in 85-degree tropical weather with high humidity. Best I'd done with absolutely standard setup was 7.59. I also did a run at night where the temperature was down to about 75 degrees and got 6.79 seconds.

I have seen a 6.37 second run but that sounds too incredible so I don't count it. In all the runs after the Dynomax was fitted the car was standard except for a K&N filter insert in the OEM box.

I know you've sent me this info before but could you post the model number and description of the S'trapp.

Also, where's the best deal on those Enkei's now? I need some fast for an event on Feb 9th?

Derek

[Garfield]

****For anyone reading this, please keep in mind the original posting date, things have changed****

Derek, awhile back *I* posted those great numbers on the G-Tech.
The Enkeis aren't available anymore, they weren't even when I was getting my sets. If you NEED a 16x6.5, you either have to run a custom wheel (eg: Kodiak) or the stock 16" X-Lites.
If you can run a 16x7, there's plenty of good lightweight choices out there, including the SSR Comp.

Please do a search, I've got all kinds of numbers posted here. Enough that I can't remember.

But here's what I recall:

1)Cooper S with Enkeis and Falkens, otherwise stock, 45 deg., about 2k miles:
Best 0-60 = 6.54

2)Cooper S with Enkeis, Falkens, Red Line Oil, and 8 Disc Supertrapp, 75 deg., about 7k miles:
Best 0-60 = 6.57

3)Cooper S with Enkeis, Falkens, Red Line Oil, and 8 Disc Supertrapp, 45 deg., about 10k miles:
Best 0-60 = 6.11

NOTE: Here's a link to my last run's G-Tech numbers (6.25)on Video: http://mini.loonybin.net/0to60/

Believe what you want, and how accurate the G-Tech is, but I can't give you any better proof.

Keep in mind also that those last great numbers were done at night when it was damp, and the pavement was cool. Imagine a sunny 45 deg day and how much better the traction would be.


Brian

[friedduck]

From www.wheelweights.net, here are all the wheels (aftermarket or stock) listed in 16x6.5, and their weights. Of course a lot of them are 5-lug, or wrong offset. HTH.

Jeff

AFTERMARKET
Enkei RPO-1 14.5
RS Watanabe EightSpoke F8FT 16.3
RS Watanabe EightSpoke F8FS 17.2
Compomotive MO 17.4
Compomotive TH2 18.1

OEM
Honda S2000 JDM (BBS) 13.3
Mazda Miata 01 15.5
Acura RSX 16
Subaru Impreza MY02 WRX 16.5
Honda S2000 17.5
Nissan 240SX 95-98 LE and SE 18.5
Ford Taurus SHO 18.8
Honda Prelude 97-99 19
Nissan Maxima 95-99 SE 19.6
Honda Prelude 97-99 SH 19.7
Alfa Romeo 156 21.7
Mitsubishi GSX 1997 25

[Garfield]

Or wrong hubcenter, which is a lot of them.

[ghillie]

Garfield,

Do you have any problems with the Supertrapp melting the valance where you cut it for the silencer??

Thanks,

John

[Garfield]

I wish I did, that would make it legal for Stock class, since you're not allowed to cut it (but it is legal if it melts, go figure).

Nope, mine probably sits about 1/8th to 1/4 of an inch away from the valance. My father has got his touching, and I believe it might be melting a little, but it's not an issue.

The dyno sheets are now available at 911ETR's website www.MCSHP.org under the Supertrapp "Pics/Video" stuff.

Brian

[Casey]

Garfield - the pic you have of on the MCSHP site has the rear valence cut...the black plastic part...not the actual painted bumper.

[Garfield]

Oh, I see what you're saying. I didn't mean to imply that mine wasn't cut. It IS cut, and it IS illegal, for a weeny protest. What I'm saying is that if the exhaust appears to melt it, it's legal. Mine is obviously cut, so it's illegal.
After the cut, it is not touching the plastic, but it's 1/8th inch away.

Sorry for the confusion,
Brian

[Casey]

i think ghillie was refering to the black part...which you did cut...and I assumed you meant that you didn't cut it cuz I thought you were running stock class. my confusion.

[ghillie]

Brian,

I bought jlm's Supertrapp he had for sale here. Very quality design he fabricated.

I am in agreement with you the sound of the Supertrapp is very good. It has a nice medium sound, not too low, which it's the low tones that can be intrusive into the passenger compartment. And it clearly has very noticeable power increase. I only have seat of the pants feel, but it is noticeable.

So thanks to you for your insight, you provided great info to make an informed decision. And thanks to jlm for providing a quality item.

John

[Garfield]

Thanks, I'm glad you're happy. I have GOT to get this thing on the Dyno in the COLD to see what kind of power it's putting out. I can't get any traction at the mid-top of 1st gear, even with warm sticky tires.

Brian