[Cooooooperslad]

Ok, I'm no way on the ball as any members here on this subject...

I'm thinking of getting an Alta induction kit as it seems a cheap 10-20bhp to add to my GTT210 kit. I know the kit is a similar design to the also popular GTT CAI which is a open filter with a heatshield that in theory protects the filter from warm air from the engine bay. One question is, does the rubber along the top of the heatshield on the alta kit touch the inside of the bonnet to make a seal?

But... I'm still thinking, with the standard air box when the filter is sucking air into the engine its creating a vacum in the sealed air box so air is actually forced through the ram pipe from the front of the car. Where as the two CAI kits do not sit in a sealed box so cannot create such an effective vacumn?

This might all just be bull but its the way I'm thinking and I hope you lot can prove me wrong so I can stop being fussy and just get on and buy my Alta CAI.

[:: Jon ::]

the rubber does make a seal

[Bhozar]

I cut a hole in the panel near the windscreen so it could suck air in from those holes in the skuttle, rather than just from the front of the car. The car is supposed to push air into that area form the windscreen anyway, so you might as well make more use of it by sucking it into a CAI kit. With the hole you do get more supercharger noise in the cabin, but I love it.

I dont think any CAI kit is going to give you 20bhp though. Butt dyno says no.

[ScottyBoy]

I currently have the ALTA CAI and i love it.

The GTT CAI has a double skin as far as im aware which is slightly better to protect it from the heat, the question of does it make a seal is a good one i will have to check and i surely hope and think it should.

On this sealed box question Alta do an Air Top Box which actual makes it an Air box and is supposedly alot better aswel look hear

Lohen.co.uk - Track & Fast Road Performance for your New Mini - Online Shop

Also when you install an Alta, GTT CAI you remove the partition at the back and then the air filter can now pull air from the area of the schuttle panel which is alot colder than from the engine bay! This also increases the S/C Whine ALOT, which is great!

One thing thats different between the 2 kits is GTT dont supply you with a Ram pipe so the standard one is kept, my opinion of engine decoration etc is id rather have a new one, i ddnt pick my Alta one for this reason tho as i got it alot cheaper from the classifieds section!

[:: Jon ::]

no need to cut any holes..

the rear plate comes off..

[Bhozar]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jonmorgan (original)

no need to cut any holes..

the rear plate comes off..

Aye, it does. Drilling hole only ok 60 seconds though, and I was feeling lazy that day

[s33gav]

you're not going to get 10-20bhp from an induction kit whichever one you choose

[ScottyBoy]

Probably around 5 - 8 Bhp id say!

[steve11]

I don't think it matters which brand you go for.
The increase in performance comes from the pod style filter & the opening up of the rear for airflow from the base of the screen. Of course you also get the inlet pipe with the Alta kit which may help marginally.
Just so you know i had an Alta V2 kit with lid but i replaced it with the JCW kit (modified with a K&N filter element & internal flap removed), but i kept the Alta intake pipe.
The reason i replaced the V2 was because it increased top end performance but at the detriment to low down torque & drivability.
Whichever way you go you are not going to get 10-20hp that's for sure.
Have fun.

[roland2003]

Hi Guys, actually the GTT CAI is the only one that does have a true 360 degree rolled edge rampipe. Its machined from solid billet...the only way to achieve this full rolled edge. No other manufactuer goes to this expense (they all 'spin' it from a flat sheet of alloy. ) Ours is inside the filter,if you remove the filter you can then appreciate it, theres no steps on the inside either.
Regarding vacuum , the last thing you want is to create a vacuum in the airbox. To avoid this you need a big airbox and good air feeds to it. Two feeds one from the front and one from the rear is near ideal.
The perfect airbox would be a very large airbox with a rampipe with a fully rolled edge protruding out well into the box (not on one face), Actually the cabin can make a very good airbox (a bit loud ,and youd have to turn the heater off though!!)
Best Regards Roland
Ive got a few technical manuals that confirm all this .

[alski]

[quote=ScottyBoy230;3110761]I currently have the ALTA CAI and i love it.



Also when you install an Alta, GTT CAI you remove the partition at the back and then the air filter can now pull air from the area of the schuttle panel which is alot colder than from the engine bay! This also increases the S/C Whine ALOT, which is great!


i have the gtt CAI , fitted with gtt220 and have the holes

slight change of direction here, but i am also considering drilling out the other panel ie drivers side
will this assist engine cooling, or is it a bad idea

[roland2003]

Hi Alski, no dont do that. Think of the entire scuttle area (each side is linked through the centre) as a large tank from which the the engine can draw off nice cold air .The cold air replenishes the tank with outside air coming through the 2 vents at the base of the windscreen. -its a good setup.,The standard car lends itself very well to achieving an almost ideal situation.
Best Regards Roland GTT

[Richard Crofts]

You wont get 10-20bhp. I have the Alta and although I prefer it to Rolands filter (mainly on looks/colour ) its not as good. Expect an increase of max 10hp defo not more...and in probability its more like 5-8hp

The rubber seal does touch the heat shielding material on bonnet when closed and creates a seal.

The intake on a car does not require a tight seal. The suck created by the cylinders/throttle is what dictates things...the ability of the filter and pipes to feed this air at a rate the engine requests is the main thing...not the ability of the unit to hold a vacuum.

The shorter the pipe to the throttle body and the less interupted the flow of air is by the filter material is the important thing. There is also an arguement as to wether your better getting turbulant air in for a good burn (economy) or just getting air in faster (usually to do this the air is less turbulant as its a straighter smoother pipe etc). Its a fine balance really and a difficult one to make workable

TBH I recon the JCW filter is very good as it takes extra cold air from scuttle area and is enclosed...its just the filter material is not too free flowing...GTT remedy this. You can create your own JCW box from the stock one with some pipe and rubber sealant and a KN/piper panel filter and carefull tank cutting to the box and scuttle panel

Personally I'd go Alta but like I said the technically the GTT is better IMO

Oh on the GTT you cut holes in the scuttle panel ...on the Alta you just remove the panel at the screws

[Cooooooperslad]

Wow Thanks everyone really helped my understanding, one last question is that if the top of the alta head shield makes a seal with the bonnet why is there a need for the Alta "lid"?

Cheerzo again

[Blacky]

I am no expert on CAI or the Mini Engine but do understand the theory in regards to the Rolled RAM POD in the filter.
Obviously the larger the airbox the better, but why not just fit a good RAM Filter with POD in the standard airbox and increase the hole in the plate below the windscreen?

[steve11]

Quote: Originally Posted by Blacky (original)

I am no expert on CAI or the Mini Engine but do understand the theory in regards to the Rolled RAM POD in the filter.
Obviously the larger the airbox the better, but why not just fit a good RAM Filter with POD in the standard airbox and increase the hole in the plate below the windscreen?

Thats exactly my JCW CAI in summary.

[roland2003]

Hi ,basically if the entrance is a distance out into the airbox (eg GTT Cold Ram) ,air is able to be drawn into it from all directions( ie from behind too.) The fully rolled edge (as apposed to a peened back lip) allows the air to 'roll' in rather than getting trapped underneath . No lip is even worse....eddy currents and all sorts of nasty things happen to the flow restricting the amount entering. This causes measurable pressure drop below ambient at WOT at high revs..
I'll try and dig some literature out over the weekend and post it up. AFAIK the GTT Cold Ram is the ONLY kit for the MCS that addresses all flow issues and applies them to the MCS in the best way within the constraints of the engine bay/scuttle area.
Best Regards Roland GTT

[Loui]

Quote: Originally Posted by ScottyBoy230 (original)

Probably around 5 - 8 Bhp id say!

I doubt it would even make that much difference in truth

[minigolf]

Quote: Originally Posted by s33gav (original)

you're not going to get 10-20bhp from an induction kit whichever one you choose

That's what I thought too.



I bought my ALTA CAI purely for the sound, and I love it for that. What was unexpected was the power gain (possible dubious dyno plot aside) and improvements in driveability. After fitting the CAI I found the car's throttle response improved markedly and once beyond 4-4500rpm the car just kept pulling right until redline. Keep in mind this was my first performance mod, so I'm not sure it would make as noticeable a difference to an already modded MINI, but out of the 15% ALTA v1 pulley, Milltek cat back, MTH tuner file and the CAI I'd say the CAI was right up there as the mod that made the most noticeable real world difference.

For the record, the final dyno result with all those mods is shown below (same dyno, same operator, just a couple of years apart).


(Stock run, before any mods was 106kW.)

[1320autos]

+ or - 3 depending what u have