[BigShow]

Penguinracer - I know what you mean completely and you're right, sorting a Mini does cost, but as with everything in life, one man's Porsche is another man's Mini.

That said I do remember slagging off Max Power cars a few years ago where people had spent over 30k on a Nova... but am I now so different??

Oh god... someone get me the number for Modders Anonymous!

[Penguinracer]

Bigshow,
I'd re-allocate your budget & cut-out things like "short-shifters" & put more into the suspension set-up. The Bilstein PSS9 is superb & the struts are huge in cross-section & very rigid. I'd recommend that the followingf sneaks into your shopping list, even if it means dropping some other items:

(1) Bilstein PSS9 kit;

(2) Bigger rear anti-roll bar;

(3) Rose-jointed drop links front & rear;

(4) Camber plates;

(5) Lighter wheels & decent rubber.

There have been a few threads where people have lined up Cooper S's in various states of tune & found very little difference in straight-line performance between a 200 bhp & a 260 bhp car.
Consider that the BBR 300T is 307 bhp (with LSD) & does 0-100 in 13.3 yet the Hartge is 200 bhp (without LSD) & takes 16.1 & you can see that spending a lot more money on the engine quickly offers diminishing returns. The key to a Mini's speed around a track is in its cornering - specifically the ability to carry high cornering speeds from entry through the apex. This will require firmer springs, stronger damping, less roll & lighter wheels with grippier tyres. The Quaife makes a HUGE difference. Work up the suspension & your track speed will be much quicker than ploughing even twice the sum into engine work. Given the Mini's aerodynamics its arguable how much difference any additional power makes once you've achieved 220 bhp.
We rose-jointed as much of the suspension as we could but some might find this a little uncompromising on the road, but the handling is incredible.

[BigShow]

Quote: Originally Posted by Penguinracer (original)

Bigshow,
I'd re-allocate your budget & cut-out things like "short-shifters" & put more into the suspension set-up. The Bilstein PSS9 is superb & the struts are huge in cross-section & very rigid. I'd recommend that the followingf sneaks into your shopping list, even if it means dropping some other items:

(1) Bilstein PSS9 kit;

(2) Bigger rear anti-roll bar;

(3) Rose-jointed drop links front & rear;

(4) Camber plates;

(5) Lighter wheels & decent rubber.

There have been a few threads where people have lined up Cooper S's in various states of tune & found very little difference in straight-line performance between a 200 bhp & a 260 bhp car.
Consider that the BBR 300T is 307 bhp (with LSD) & does 0-100 in 13.3 yet the Hartge is 200 bhp (without LSD) & takes 16.1 & you can see that spending a lot more money on the engine quickly offers diminishing returns. The key to a Mini's speed around a track is in its cornering - specifically the ability to carry high cornering speeds from entry through the apex. This will require firmer springs, stronger damping, less roll & lighter wheels with grippier tyres. The Quaife makes a HUGE difference. Work up the suspension & your track speed will be much quicker than ploughing even twice the sum into engine work. Given the Mini's aerodynamics its arguable how much difference any additional power makes once you've achieved 220 bhp.
We rose-jointed as much of the suspension as we could but some might find this a little uncompromising on the road, but the handling is incredible.

Hey PR

Thanks for the reply.

The biggest headache with the Mini round Bedford is the understeer in slow corners. In terms of power out of corners with warmed up Parada Spec II's and the correct throttle there is simply no need for the LSD with the power I have now. A rear anti roll bar, with new bushes will certainly take out (I hope) the majority of the understeer but having re-evaluated my track needs I am now worrying about running coil-overs. The key at Bedford and what makes me quick there (relative to a standard Elise lets say) is attacking the kerbs. Last outing we all rode in each others cars (not just Mini's) to compare driving style and entry and exit speeds and there were key differences with the approach to corners, especially lets say 60-70 mph third gear ones. In the Mini I would attack the kerb using the inside edge of it to get grip on the way out and the Chilli pack suspension just took it in its stride without upsetting the balance of the car giving me greater exit speed that were in the words of a GT3 RS driver 'crazy'. Now it took me the best part of 50 laps to perfect those two corners out of 12, but the current set-up just proved a winner whereas those with coil-overs or really hard 'track' set-ups just unsettled their cars by taking too much speed over the kerbs and ended up driving round the faster ones. So in this instance the straight line through the corners was the fastest and the Mini loved it. On the slower corners the car understeered and I just couldn't balance it and therefore lost speed, whereas those with the harder set-up and mainly rear wheel drive, powered out of the understeer into very mild oversteer and a quick get-away.

What I'm trying to say is I need to find the ultimate set-up for the Mini that suits Bedford as its just down the road for me and therefore the track of choice. I have not doubt that once the power increases the 5 points you mention will become a nessecity and its one reason why I've asked 1320 to give me low down power rather than high rev power because having driven a Civic Type R at Bedford its nigh on impossible to keep it in the high-rev band needed to be quick.

I'm going to work with 1320, a data logger and a v-box to really work out where and how I can gain seconds around Bedford. I've had my instruction by their awesome race tutors who've honed my lines for me, its just time to set the car up now to get the most out of the power mods. You are so right though, the difference between 220bhp and 300bhp is minimal in comparison to what can be gained by spending time and indeed money on getting the chassis set-up just right.

On the wheels front, Pro Race 1.2's will be the choice to shed some kilo's off the car and weight watchers to shed some kilo's off the driver!

I don't know if you ever get to Bedford but it would be good to get on track together to compare v-box times, not for competition as your Porka will blow me out the water, but just to see what set-up is quickest at what points of the track.

[Paul Webster]

How much do the tutors charge BigShow? I reckon you might of got to the 3rd bend before we had the Bedford Autodrome website up

We even ordered some suspension parts for ours and realised that we need to remove the original rear subframe and replace it with an S one with anti roll bar attachments

We might have to team up and make sure that red 5 turbo doesnt come passed us at any point on the track otherwise I'll never here the last of it

[BigShow]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1320autos (original)

How much do the tutors charge BigShow? I reckon you might of got to the 3rd bend before we had the Bedford Autodrome website up

We even ordered some suspension parts for ours and realised that we need to remove the original rear subframe and replace it with an S one with anti roll bar attachments

We might have to team up and make sure that red 5 turbo doesnt come passed us at any point on the track otherwise I'll never here the last of it

Lol.. they're 25 quid so if you book up an evening session you get just shy of 3 hours of total track time and an instructor to show you the ropes for a total of124 quid... bargain!

We'll have to team up to keep that red roller skate off our backs, it weighs about the same as a napkin!

[Paul Webster]

So what date are we going for?? I think one evening date clashed with the Euro Finals, Thomas wouldn't be able to make it as he'll be working on this to the wee hours HomePage.

But I reckon it could be fun to go from Santa Pod to Bedford Aerodrome on the same day and back again

[BigShow]

That Studebaker is awesome! Scary, but awesome!

Just checked and there aren't any more track evenings planned at Bedford excpet a Ladies Evening! Well thats according to the website anyway, there should some added soon I hope as there are usually quite a few, but I'll check with them on the phone tomorrow.

[Penguinracer]

Hi Bigshow,
I helped my brother develop his Mini, it had one last hurrah at the 'Ring & then he took it back home with him to NZ after 11 years in the UK.
I bought the Porka because (it's cheap!) I wanted something for the track with plenty of tuning potential as I love the development work. I'm not one for stripping a car out - for me it should be able to be driven to the track & at worst be a pretty hardcore ride on the road but tolerable! I 'm not one for ripping out the interior - why try to save a few kgs but destroy the ambience of the car in the process - I' m not even racing, let alone professionally, let alone for a title that is worth anything & it's not like I'm fighting it out to be Formula One World Champ. To my mind, some people wreck a car to save a couple of tenths on a lap on a track day which no one is taking any notice of anyway.

From where you are now it sounds like some camber plates might help you kill some of that understeer, that & and a bigger rear bar. Bedford is a great place to test developments on a car & to take it to the limit. While the 'Ring is the ultimate I agree that Bedford is a great place to learn how your machine handles at the limit & to improve both man & machine!

The Mini is a great platform, but some people get too carried away chasing HP numbers - you're right to focus on mid-range torque, brakes & handling. Let me also say - don't skimp on the brakes. If you have to then ditch the body kit to get the best brakes you can. The GTT Porsche brakes are excellent & we found the Tarox 10-pots to be superb - top brakes add hugely to your confidence, speed & enjoyment.

[Bhozar]

I had my car tuned last year, and spent all this year doing other non-HP tweaks to increase performance and handling. Most recent was the GTT/Porsche brakes. They do inspire a lot of confidence when you want to slow down or stop.

My next few mods will be clutch, flywheel, Quaife LSD, billstein PSS9, adjustable rear anti-roll bar, and possibly some helix front camber plates.

just wish you could get a remote control for the Billstein like Tein do for their shocks so I could adjust them easily whenever I wanted too.

I would love a session at Bedford. If any come up post them and I'll see if I can get there. Be interesting to see how different MINI's and drivers do it. My next one will be Castle Coombe.

[MINIMANIAUK]

Had you considered getting a damaged cooper s cheap and stripping out as a track day car? got to be some flood damaged ones around somewhere,