[BigShow300]

Well my 2003 MCS visits 1320 next Monday for a dyno test of the following parts :

• 2fast2cool (eBay) manifold & decat
• Alta V2 CAI

6 months ago my Mini visited 1320 after I'd just had a Powerflow cat back exhaust fitted to an otherwise stock car with just over 20k miles on the clock... the result was 182.5bhp, in other words a gain of 19bhp!

Since then I've been eyeing up the ebay mainfold and wondered what results it would give... can a manifold and decat for ₤199 be any good?? Well having seen 'philly c' give it the big thumbs up on another thread I thought it a good time to ask 1320 to fit and dyno it.

Last month also saw the addition of a Alta V2 CAI ... so for those of you that have one of these or those who are thinking about fitting the ebay manifold, check back to this thread on Monday night for the dyno results and print outs.

I just hope that I'm not going to be disappointed!

[Foxy Mini]

Good Luck, you're in safe hands

[philly c]

i am sure you will not be disapointed!!!

I was very impressed ands did think to my self why ius it so cheap surely it cant be that good but it is! let me no how you get on!!!!

[Loui]

There great folks down there, an their rollers seem pretty darn accurate

[Rigsey]

I've been looking at these for a while on ebay so will be very interested in the results.

Is is possible to fit this manifold and maintain the standard cat?

Maybe 1320 can comment post installation?

[philly c]

no it is not as the cat and manifold are all one on the standard manifold unlike the modified 4branch and de cat manifold

[1320autos]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rigsey (original)

I've been looking at these for a while on ebay so will be very interested in the results.

Is is possible to fit this manifold and maintain the standard cat?

Maybe 1320 can comment post installation?

We'll have a measure up on Monday and price it up for you

[Rigsey]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1320autos (original)

We'll have a measure up on Monday and price it up for you

Sounds good, do you recommend any other manifolds?

I think this is my next mod ...

[1320autos]

We do like the Janspeed manifold, £283 plus vat for manifold and de cat pipe or £454 plus vat for manifold and hi flow cat.

Lets see what results we get Monday.

[Ant FR]

can you also post up the other results too, such as DB in car at given speeds. Thats the main reason i stuck to the Milltek full system as i know what is involved in the development of an exhaut as i was the test bed on another models Milltek development.

[Cooooooperslad]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1320autos (original)

We do like the Janspeed manifold, £283 plus vat for manifold and de cat pipe or £454 plus vat for manifold and hi flow cat.

Lets see what results we get Monday.

There is a nice exmaple for sale in the classifieds section, I have changed my plans and bought a Milltek cat back system this morning

[Rigsey]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1320autos (original)

We do like the Janspeed manifold, £283 plus vat for manifold and de cat pipe or £454 plus vat for manifold and hi flow cat.

Lets see what results we get Monday.

Any update on this?

[alski]

would like to know split between de-cat and sports cat,
it would also be good to shoe horn mini cat in as well to get a true comparison
ie how much gain due to manifold pipework as opposed to cat/decat combo

[1320autos]

Quote: Originally Posted by alski (original)

would like to know split between de-cat and sports cat,
it would also be good to shoe horn mini cat in as well to get a true comparison
ie how much gain due to manifold pipework as opposed to cat/decat combo

Cheers alski, I hadn't actually hadn't thought of that one, we'll make one up for our manifold and test it, cant promise when though.

[BigShow300]

As promised (a little late, I went hooning last night ) here are the results...

Car tested: Mini Cooper S BRG
Build date: Jan 2003
Mileage: 32,823 miles

Firstly a big ‘thank-you’ to the guys at 1320autos for their fantastic service and advice, I can’t recommend their expertise highly enough.

About 6 months ago I visited 1320 having had a Powerflow cat-back exhaust fitted, the dyno results showed 182.5bhp, a theoretical gain of 19bhp over the manufacturers quoted figure for a stock MCS.

The objective of the yesterday however was to test the gain (or not ) of adding a cold air induction and then fitting a new ‘race’ manifold & de-cat and testing again.

The CAI is the V2 from Alta:

http://www.altaminiperformance.com/s.../192_large.jpg


The manifold a 4-1 stainless steel example from 2fast2cool on eBay:


BMW MINI COOPER S 4 BRANCH EXHAUST MANIFOLD & DECAT CAT on eBay Exhaust Components, Performance Tuning Parts, Car Tuning Styling, Cars, Parts Vehicles (item 220138107949 end time 14-Aug-07 20:49:06 BST)

Alta V2 CAI comments:

I’m personally a big fan of the Alta V2, it looks good in the engine bay, it makes for a great induction noise and also feeds more supercharger noise into the cabin which is just addictive. I’ve seen so many manufacturers claim gains of up to 12 BHP after fitting their CAI’s but in all honesty the added noise was good enough for me….

… which is a good job, because the dyno run showed a gain of just 1bhp! But… it’s a gain and not a loss .

2fast2cool (eBay) 4-1 Race Manifold & De-Cat comments:

The manifold arrived in great time, exactly as described by 2F2C and at £199 was extremely good value. The quality of the item was superb, the header flange was found to be nice and flat, all the holes lined up nicely making it an easy fit and the welds were also of great quality. Overall the opinion was that it was certainly better made than the JCW Manifold , which is high praise in itself.

It is worth noting however that the manifold is only suited to a stock head configuration as there is not enough ‘meat’ with which to port match to a fully ported/cnc head due to pipe size and placement, however it was certainly good enough for the stock head. Once fitted the exhaust was about 20-30% louder than before. To give you some idea how loud, the poweflow cat-back was measured a few weeks back at 98db (4k RPM outside the car). The advantage straight away was a more ‘bassy burble’ at idle and a very hard edge scream at high rpm. I will however be tweaking the back-box because there is too much resonance between 55-75mph. I put this purely down to the way I designed the Powerflow exit (see pic enclosed). In terms of general noise, although loud it is much improved and thanks to the fitment of oxygen sensors on the manifold no engine warning light is illuminated. Overall impression I would say is excellent.

Results:

Now the juicy bit… the manifold gained all the way from 2400 to 6800 RPM but unfortunately the best delta was 2.5bhp, this shows how good the stock manifold is with cats in place and with a stock pulley. Paul and Thomas believe that the delta will be a lot greater once we bolt on a 15% pulley in say comparison to adding a pulley to a car with a stock manifold. Although the result could be seen as disappointing you have to consider the effects of all the mods together. For this reason I have agreed to take the car back to 1320 to add a 15% pulley and Alta V2 Intercooler with dyno runs in between fitting. The exact gains of the manifold and de-cat are attached.

Would I personally recommend the 2F2C manifold & de-cat….? For quality, noise and ease of fitment the answer would be yes… but would I recommend it to obtain big gains in BHP?? Well the results speak for themselves and so the answer would have to be no.

However… having spoken at length with Paul and Thomas yesterday the key here is that no manufacturer of a manifold and de-cat will give you ‘big gains’ after fitment to a stock car (manifold, de-cat and cat back exhaust perhaps). The key is to pick a choice of modifications that work in tandem around the age old theory of getting air into the engine more efficiently and getting exhaust gases out of the engine more effectively.

Components that influence airflow into the engine are:

• air filter
• intake air piping
• ECU/MAF
• throttle body or carburetor
• intake manifold
• camshaft
• intake port and valve of cylinder heads
• supercharger

Components that influence airflow out of the engine are the:

• exhaust valve and exhaust ports of the cylinder heads
• camshafts
• exhaust manifolds
• exhaust tubing
• catalytic converters
• muffler

So with this in mind I’m now embarking on a personal journey with 1320 to fit the parts that best suit my car and the reason I bought it, namely track-days, tunnel runs and for my GF to still be able to (and want to) drive it on normal roads when she wants to.

The next few months should be fun

[Rigsey]

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original)

As promised (a little late, I went hooning last night ) here are the results...

Car tested: Mini Cooper S BRG
Build date: Jan 2003
Mileage: 32,823 miles

Firstly a big ‘thank-you’ to the guys at 1320autos for their fantastic service and advice, I can’t recommend their expertise highly enough.

About 6 months ago I visited 1320 having had a Powerflow cat-back exhaust fitted, the dyno results showed 182.5bhp, a theoretical gain of 19bhp over the manufacturers quoted figure for a stock MCS.

The objective of the yesterday however was to test the gain (or not ) of adding a cold air induction and then fitting a new ‘race’ manifold & de-cat and testing again.

The CAI is the V2 from Alta:

http://www.altaminiperformance.com/s.../192_large.jpg


The manifold a 4-1 stainless steel example from 2fast2cool on eBay:


BMW MINI COOPER S 4 BRANCH EXHAUST MANIFOLD & DECAT CAT on eBay Exhaust Components, Performance Tuning Parts, Car Tuning Styling, Cars, Parts Vehicles (item 220138107949 end time 14-Aug-07 20:49:06 BST)

Alta V2 CAI comments:

I’m personally a big fan of the Alta V2, it looks good in the engine bay, it makes for a great induction noise and also feeds more supercharger noise into the cabin which is just addictive. I’ve seen so many manufacturers claim gains of up to 12 BHP after fitting their CAI’s but in all honesty the added noise was good enough for me….

… which is a good job, because the dyno run showed a gain of just 1bhp! But… it’s a gain and not a loss .

2fast2cool (eBay) 4-1 Race Manifold & De-Cat comments:

The manifold arrived in great time, exactly as described by 2F2C and at £199 was extremely good value. The quality of the item was superb, the header flange was found to be nice and flat, all the holes lined up nicely making it an easy fit and the welds were also of great quality. Overall the opinion was that it was certainly better made than the JCW Manifold , which is high praise in itself.

It is worth noting however that the manifold is only suited to a stock head configuration as there is not enough ‘meat’ with which to port match to a fully ported/cnc head due to pipe size and placement, however it was certainly good enough for the stock head. Once fitted the exhaust was about 20-30% louder than before. To give you some idea how loud, the poweflow cat-back was measured a few weeks back at 98db (4k RPM outside the car). The advantage straight away was a more ‘bassy burble’ at idle and a very hard edge scream at high rpm. I will however be tweaking the back-box because there is too much resonance between 55-75mph. I put this purely down to the way I designed the Powerflow exit (see pic enclosed). In terms of general noise, although loud it is much improved and thanks to the fitment of oxygen sensors on the manifold no engine warning light is illuminated. Overall impression I would say is excellent.

Results:

Now the juicy bit… the manifold gained all the way from 2400 to 6800 RPM but unfortunately the best delta was 2.5bhp, this shows how good the stock manifold is with cats in place and with a stock pulley. Paul and Thomas believe that the delta will be a lot greater once we bolt on a 15% pulley in say comparison to adding a pulley to a car with a stock manifold. Although the result could be seen as disappointing you have to consider the effects of all the mods together. For this reason I have agreed to take the car back to 1320 to add a 15% pulley and Alta V2 Intercooler with dyno runs in between fitting. The exact gains of the manifold and de-cat are attached.

Would I personally recommend the 2F2C manifold & de-cat….? For quality, noise and ease of fitment the answer would be yes… but would I recommend it to obtain big gains in BHP?? Well the results speak for themselves and so the answer would have to be no.

However… having spoken at length with Paul and Thomas yesterday the key here is that no manufacturer of a manifold and de-cat will give you ‘big gains’ after fitment to a stock car (manifold, de-cat and cat back exhaust perhaps). The key is to pick a choice of modifications that work in tandem around the age old theory of getting air into the engine more efficiently and getting exhaust gases out of the engine more effectively.

Components that influence airflow into the engine are:

• air filter
• intake air piping
• ECU/MAF
• throttle body or carburetor
• intake manifold
• camshaft
• intake port and valve of cylinder heads
• supercharger

Components that influence airflow out of the engine are the:

• exhaust valve and exhaust ports of the cylinder heads
• camshafts
• exhaust manifolds
• exhaust tubing
• catalytic converters
• muffler

So with this in mind I’m now embarking on a personal journey with 1320 to fit the parts that best suit my car and the reason I bought it, namely track-days, tunnel runs and for my GF to still be able to (and want to) drive it on normal roads when she wants to.

The next few months should be fun

Thanks for posting your results, will be interesting to see what numbers you reach with your future mods :-)

[philly c]

thats a great bit of info to no.
i didnt list what other mods i was running wioht the ebay manifold so here they are hope this helps.

I totally agree with the points mentioned i was VERY happy with the money i paid and the qaulity of the manifold!

THE MODS....


ALTA VERSION 2 INDUCTION KIT
EBAY MANIFOLD
MILTECK CAT BACK
RE MAP JCW
JCW INJECTORS
ALTA VERSION 2 15% REDUCED SIZE PULEY

[philly c]

.... And I Am Very Happy With The Feel Of The Car As Well As The Power!!!

[MINIMANIAUK]

"Made from T-304 stainless steel, Mandrel bent tubing, CNC Machined Flanges. Each set is tested and dyno'd for maximum performance."
I guess not then ,but certainly a good price.(I still think 4-2-1 is way to go)
the resonance you are getting will require a front chamber to the exhaust ,I doubt altering the rear box will help very much,give me a call ,as I have some front pipes here.The filter kit may produce better results with a pulley fitted,as the charger demands more air,how the manifold flows with the pulley is a bit of pot luck,may work better or worse ,I suspect better though.nice to see actuals rather than claims!!

[Cooooooperslad]

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMANIAUK (original)

"Made from T-304 stainless steel, Mandrel bent tubing, CNC Machined Flanges. Each set is tested and dyno'd for maximum performance."

I guess not then ,but certainly a good price.(I still think 4-2-1 is way to go)
the resonance you are getting will require a front chamber to the exhaust ,I doubt altering the rear box will help very much,give me a call ,as I have some front pipes here.The filter kit may produce better results with a pulley fitted,as the charger demands more air,how the manifold flows with the pulley is a bit of pot luck,may work better or worse ,I suspect better though.nice to see actuals rather than claims!!

Like Paul at 1320 autos says, its picking the right mods in the right order. Like you say adam, a CAI might not benefit a car with a standard engine but it may benefit one that has a reduced pulley and requires more air! Think the is the same for most mods like the manifold and intercooler, a bigger gain will be seen on an engine that requires the part more.