[Paul Webster]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kumho Kid (original)

so why aren't you out designing something then?

Why re-invent the wheel when I have you, Adam & Roland doing it.

But you must remember who has run 13 12 & 11sec 1/4 mile with the fewest components

[Revolution Mini Works]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1320autos (original)

Why re-invent the wheel when I have you, Adam & Roland doing it.

But you must remember who has run 13 12 & 11sec 1/4 mile with the fewest components

If I don't have the axles and engine mounts finished by Pomona I think I will take the GP out with some slicks on it

[Paul Webster]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kumho Kid (original)

If I don't have the axles and engine mounts finished by Pomona I think I will take the GP out with some slicks on it

Oh No there goes my et record

[brightblue]

hi re dyno

peter at GSR at watford have a remap/ dyno day on 24th nov

[Paul Webster]

Quote: Originally Posted by lucachiarelli (original)

1320 do you do rolling road remaps? If so i would be very intersted in having one next month.
Thanks

We've seen 244bhp with the stock software and Roland has seen;

http://www.mini2.com/forum/engine-dr...ow-graphs.html

So you have to ask yourself would you be wasting your money, I know there was a thread on NAM wher a group of guys got John from LDG to fly down to florida to tune there cars and they gained max of 4-6 horsepower but the driveablity was dramitically improved.

We saw similar horsepower gains using an SAFC.

Also there's a lot of development work going on at the moment and I believe you'll see some trick aftermarket ecu related components in the market place next year.

[Babes]

I just had a custom unichip installed to replace my MTH map and gained 26whp so I would recommend a remap.

[Paul Webster]

So what engine spec and whp are you at the moment Babes??

It would of been nice to see the stock map put back in and then the gains

[Babes]

i will start a new thread soon with all the info as there a few folks that have been asking me.

[roland2003]

At peak power the throttle is wide open and the revs are in the region of 6500-7000. At this point there are only 2 things a 'remap' can do.
1) Ignition timing (advance or retard it)
2) Fuelling. Now assuming you have a pulley (15% or 17%) ,and stock injectors there is virtually no more fuel available (duty cycle) to put more fuel in if you wanted. And if you cant put more fuel in you cant add any timing advance as they will pink (stock map timing is very close to optimum at this point).
You will never get large power increases on a 'pullied' MCS by re-mapping. The people that show these power increases do both the mapping AND the before/after power runs. !!
I would advise at least use a 'non Mini tuners' RR for both the runs, dont even tell them whats been done .
Save your money and fit bigger injectors and maybe the Adjustable FPR we do . Get someone to set it up with a Wide Band ....and you WILL get power (still not 20+bhp though).
If your mapping were to need changing to the extent that you did gain 20+bhp then that is because of a faulty sensor (eg T Map) or an air leak. Two wrongs dont make a right.(especially if you replace the dicky sensor later on.) Stock mapping on a 'pullied' car is very close to optimum.
Best Regards roland GTT

[Babes]

the guy who did the map is not a mini tuner, he tunes V8 supercars though did race mini's back in the 70's. Have started a new thread with the results.

[brightblue]

as to remap not required!

if engine with 17% pulley pinks at 3500 rmp then at 5200 rmp a map is they way to go if you don't won't to break you engine or remove 17% and go back to standard pulley size

and as for bigger injector the car on dyno was fitted with works injectors

the way to stop pinking is not just to add more fuel may be easy way but not the right way

GSR may be new kid on the block as to minis but 25 plus yrs working on force induction systems from OEM to webber alpha mapping

have used them if the past for TVR Peugeot Fiat and and Alfa tuning

[roland2003]

17% doesnt pink, but if it does its because your running poor fuel , insufficient fans on the RR or have a fault . As stated 2 wrongs dont make a right.
If the cars pinking you can either retard or add more fuel. More fuel on these cars (upto a point) works better and gives better protection to the engine,...I think we know Minis better than your mate
One problem with RR's is because you dont get the cooling of real world situations you may get pinking that never occurs on the road. You then retard it ,the power goes up on the RR ,but on the real road power goes DOWN as its then over retarded. In other words the better cooling you get on the real road allows more advance.....on the road logging is the way to go every time.

[MINI-Morgan]

26whp?? Thats a massive flywheel increase on a mini! at a rough guess 32BHP+?? There must have been something seriously wrong with it beforehand! And at a guess it was over fuelling big time or retarding the ignition. Possibly it wasnt mentioned to MTH about the works injectors so increased flow rate for each injector pulse and over fueling.

Personally I would be willing to bet the diffence between your new map and the stock/works map would be much less like upto 5whp.

[Ant FR]

Ok, through a personal friend i was invited up to Red Dot Racing on Sunday who were doing a rolling road day ( turned aout to be a Fiat day actually) so i went a long and had a chat with the guys about getting the mini on the rollers and see what it gets.

The main reason i have been desperate to do this is because i have spoken to lots and lots of people now who are telling me that the MCS DOES need a remap to run right. and before anyone says anything about they just want my cash and they are just talking *****, i will say that these people include some very very well respected Mini tuners, and i am not going to name names etc. In fact when i told some of them that i had been told the ECU was adaptive enought, there reply was " they know feck all about ECU's then". Plus with all the scare stories of engines running to lean and detonating i wanted some sort of safety precautions put in place as i don't really want to be paying for a new engine etc. Plus i was also sure that the figures i had in my head of a GTT220 + intercooler and Manifold were not giving me the 230 + plus odd brake i was i thinking it had as there was no way it felt as fast as my old 230bhp Ibiza.

So this was primarily for protection and due to the lots of advice i had heard. This is also from a guy who previously worked for BMW as a mapping expert, oh and yes he was German....lol

So, we hooked it up to the Rollers, and to put this in context there had been 2 JCW 210 cars on the rollers that both got 193bhp and 196bhp respectively ( and they were certified 210bhp cars according to BMW). the first run came back at 209Bhp and the guys shouted over "whoa she's pinking like a *****, what fuel you got in it" i told them it was 99 ron. as thats what i always put in and they actually said thats not good, adaptive ECu my ass was my first thought.

So, the next thing was to start with a genric map, and then tweak that map initially. The first thing to be looked at was the Fueling because i had recently added JCW injectors as a further safety precaution. So more fuel was added, this was mainly to try and stop the pinking so that it could be run up again on the rollers safely, there was a few other bits messed about with too, and then it was put back on the rollers 20 minutes latter, on this run it got 218bhp at 6520 rpm, but the guys were not happy as they said now it was overfueling slightly so they needed to lean it off slightly, they did so and just tweaked it again, and on the final run it came back with 228.2 BHP at 6540 rpm, But the guys were not 100% happy, as they said that with a proper half day spent on it they could get another 5 or so BHP out of it, but at least it was now safe to drive.

They were very very helpful guys and before anyone shouts they were tryingto rip me off. I will say, i paid beans for this hour or sos work, this was more a bit of testing and i only really paid a mates rate if you know what i mean.

But it proves one thing, those who say remaps are not needed are at least in my case not tellingthe whole truth. The ECU's may be adaptive, but the same could be said for all ECU's you can't rely on that sorting out the car for all the variables that can be done to it. Plus when you factor in machining tolerances on the engines then you can see that small difference in machining can give up to a 5% variance each way in a power output. For example on the day i was there, there 3 Punto 1.4's on the rollers, all the same age, same engine and all standard, yet one acheived 94bhp andother 98 and the best of the 3 achieved 104bhp. All the same spec yet differing performancer. But the same map, surely being adaptive it would have brought them all out the same, but alas no.

Now i'm not claiming to be a genious or anything, but i have had enough maps on my cars in the passed and know that these can make adifference. Some cars more than others, eg VAG turbo cars always remap very nicely. But i tell you one thing, on my mini you can really feel the difference. it pulls more than it ever has before, theres no hesitation at 3500 rpm anynmore, it runs smoother, and just feels a lot better car. Why, because the bits that have been changed have been taken into account. And yes if we spent longer on it it could be mapped even better, but then the gains would really start to drop off.

The other thing i would love to know, how many of the guys who have had GTT conversions have had remaps done on their cars.

Any commetns on this pleae

[MINI-Morgan]

I havent had a remap on my GTT car and have attended a rolling road. I know mine runs 8%+ fuelling adaptively on top of the standard map and runs fine with out pinking.

Do you know what your whp figures were?

Very good write up As with all things its the variation that causes the problems. One car could be running just perfect yet another could be pinking. Blocked injectors? ECU needs resetting? Would need to be properly investigated.

I still laugh even now that the Works consistantly dont break the 200hp barrier even though they are sold as 210. Worst I ever saw was 168hp I think it was......

P.s. VAG Turbos always respond well to a remap since they are map controlled boost pressures. 1.8T engine is a classic and great engine!

[Paul Webster]

Did they have the bonnet open or shut??

[Ant FR]

If you think the works cars are bad, then they had a lady in a coupl of weeks ago, bought a car that was Hartge ( or so she was told) brought it in, and it RR'd at 176 Bhp. I think thats somebody telling porkies.

As for WHP sorry i did'nt get this but yes it was all run down properly for loadings etc.

Funny thing is another guy i know has a rolling road, he's a volvo specialist, i remember when we were there a while back he had the Peugeot autosport club down doping a rolling road day. There was a lad on there who was giving loads of figures he wanted to achieve for his 106. So they messed around with the rollers settings and done his car, showed him the graph and saidf WOW, it just got 295 bhp from throttle bodied up 1.6, thats amazing. The kid actually belived until he was shown how RR can be manipulated by unscrupulous people. it actually made 155bhp, but it jsut goes to show that RR's can not always be gospel, but as this is throughj amate i am confident the Red Dot boys were being genuine.

[Ant FR]

bonnett was closed, with a proper big **** off fan, But even they said they did'nt really want to do more than 2 runs due to heat soak. They said to leave it closed as that was more realistic for the intercooler. I checked my scan guage and the temp on the first run was 95c and peak intake was 32c it had increased to 38 by the third run and ironcially that was the best. the scangauge resets between runs to show latest values.

[MINI-Morgan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original)

If you think the works cars are bad, then they had a lady in a coupl of weeks ago, bought a car that was Hartge ( or so she was told) brought it in, and it RR'd at 176 Bhp. I think thats somebody telling porkies.

As for WHP sorry i did'nt get this but yes it was all run down properly for loadings etc.

Funny thing is another guy i know has a rolling road, he's a volvo specialist, i remember when we were there a while back he had the Peugeot autosport club down doping a rolling road day. There was a lad on there who was giving loads of figures he wanted to achieve for his 106. So they messed around with the rollers settings and done his car, showed him the graph and saidf WOW, it just got 295 bhp from throttle bodied up 1.6, thats amazing. The kid actually belived until he was shown how RR can be manipulated by unscrupulous people. it actually made 155bhp, but it jsut goes to show that RR's can not always be gospel, but as this is throughj amate i am confident the Red Dot boys were being genuine.

I dont think anyone was nocking them as its all sounds good to me but I just wondered the whp figures as a mental reference thats all. Whp figures dont lie and are always the best way to see how much of a change mods make to a car 155bhp is pretty damn good for a 106 too Usually that would be 285 cams, manifold, throttle body and induction kit to reach that. Just remember back to the old days of pimping the saxo lol!

[Paul Webster]

So what was the starting IAT if the peaks were 32 and 38??