[WHITEY_]

I was talking a mate of mine the other day and he seems to strongly believe that having an induction kit fitted on a car slows it down cus it confuses the ECU as its not programmed to be taking in the amount of air thats increased when using an induction kit. I think its a load of rubbish but his dad's mate is a mechanic and apparently he heard it from him. Any thoughts?

[Paul]

I'm sure in some cases this can be true, if they do not improve breathing over standard, but I can't think of a case on here were either a butt dyno or rolling road hasn't shown an improvement.

[BigShow]

I can confirm that he is talking 'ass'... that said they will never produce massive HP gains on their own. With just a cat back exhaust and a cold air filter I only saw a 1 bhp improvement. However, put with lots of other mods it all helps... getting more cold air in more quickly will always help and most modern ecu's will adjust to compensate.

[Cooooooperslad]

If the induction kit isnt very well designed yes it will, especially if its allowing heat to soak into the filter.

[WHITEY_]

Oh right yeh cool i forgotted about that lol - modern ECU's adapt to their environment I have another query about the Pipercross viper. Does the kit for the mini one/cooper come supplied with a cold air feed which connects to that front air 'terminal' if you like which is at the front of the engine bay when you open the bonnet.

[sef]

My Induction kit lost me power over standard... I had a before and after on a rolling road and a loss of power was indicated... Went back to standard and got the power back...

[Paul]

Sounds like a bad 'un, what was it?

[roland2003]

I can answer that, it was our kit. -And guess whos RR 'proved 'it lost power........yep 1320 Autos
-The same RR that 'proved' a GTT 17% pulley lost 12 horsepower compared to the 15% Alta one they stocked. We already have recent proof from a customer using an independant RR house that swopping from 15% to 17% (18% to be precise) actually gains 9 bhp ! Were just biding our time at present.
Regarding the filter on a modified 'S', the gains are around 10bhp. Dozens of customers have found this to be the case.
To be completly fair SEF did say he hadnt put the holes in the plastic divider behind the filter when he fitted it, this would make 'some' difference . We dont say you'have' to do this but for max performance we do recommend it.
Also there is no simulation of high speed air on a RR . (we always talk about air flow over the intercooler, but often forget the poor old air filter).. Certain induction kits can lose power if
a) too small or restrictive
b) the flow to the filter is restricted
c) You have a carburettor car ,and forget to rejet it (doesnt apply to injection cars)
If (a) and (b) were ok to start with you might not gain power, but you will not lose it either. If someone shows a loss then that is a dubious power figure......If you want to RR your cars guys, use someone that has absolutly no connection or interest in Minis.... thats we weve always done.

[MarsLandingParty]

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

I can answer that, it was our kit. -And guess whos RR 'proved 'it lost power........yep 1320 Autos
-The same RR that 'proved' a GTT 17% pulley lost 12 horsepower compared to the 15% Alta one they stocked.

how very professional of you Roland, but anyway...

...I have a Cooper Works, and had an open cone filter on it for a while, truoble with that was it wasn't getting a direct cold feed, so if airflow isn;t quite right, I should imagine that it is possible.

I can't get it dynoed to prove, as my benchmark is now different, with a new gearbox (and hence heavier flywheel) which may slightly distort figures, but I do feel the car is marginally more responsive without it...but that's hearsay which is no use to anyone

[Cooooooperslad]

Quote: Originally Posted by MarsLandingParty (original)

how very professional of you Roland, but anyway...

...I have a Cooper Works, and had an open cone filter on it for a while, truoble with that was it wasn't getting a direct cold feed, so if airflow isn;t quite right, I should imagine that it is possible.

I can't get it dynoed to prove, as my benchmark is now different, with a new gearbox (and hence heavier flywheel) which may slightly distort figures, but I do feel the car is marginally more responsive without it...but that's hearsay which is no use to anyone

But thats a open cone isnt it? Rather than the ALTA / GTT designs which use a heat shield.

[Loui]

Quote: Originally Posted by MarsLandingParty (original)

how very professional of you Roland, but anyway...

...I have a Cooper Works, and had an open cone filter on it for a while, truoble with that was it wasn't getting a direct cold feed, so if airflow isn;t quite right, I should imagine that it is possible.

I can't get it dynoed to prove, as my benchmark is now different, with a new gearbox (and hence heavier flywheel) which may slightly distort figures, but I do feel the car is marginally more responsive without it...but that's hearsay which is no use to anyone

Thats kit sits right at the front of the engine bay an was designed for the challange, i know a lot of the challenge guys cut away the plastic shroud

[Paul Webster]

It amazes me that Roland would call one of his customers a liar.

Unless a test shows you in favour it must be wrong.

Roland makes a lot of great products that I like and do recommend to people, unfortunately he's.........................

[MarsLandingParty]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cooooooperslad (original)

But thats a open cone isnt it? Rather than the ALTA / GTT designs which use a heat shield.

It's completely different kit yes, wasn't referring to any of the Supercharged CAI's, just generally speaking

[roland2003]

1320 ... The person/RR I'm calling into question when testing GTT products is you/yours!
Im certainly not calling SEF a liar! Wev'e aready discussed your result a while ago. Talk about trying to turn things around.
You test our filter and lose power where everyone else gains........how the hell is it going to lose power, our car made 270 & 273bhp using that filter on two different days in front of 50 people.
You test our pulley and lose 12bhp, an independant RR tests it and gains 9bhp. (21bhp difference)

[Loui]

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

1320 ... The person/RR I'm calling into question when testing GTT products is you/yours!
Im certainly not calling SEF a liar! Wev'e aready discussed your result a while ago. Talk about trying to turn things around.
You test our filter and lose power where everyone else gains........how the hell is it going to lose power, our car made 270 & 273bhp using that filter on two different days in front of 50 people.
You test our pulley and lose 12bhp, an independant RR tests it and gains 9bhp. (21bhp difference)

12whp it was roland, i have no problem with putting my car on another RR to confirm the figures i got a 1320, but tbh i dont doubt them

[Cooooooperslad]

Please don't start this argument again guys! lol

[sef]

When I went to 1320 for RR I didn't go there to test anyones products... At the end of the day I'm like many others that want to modify their car and see some good returns. What I actually went to 1320 for was to have a Borla Cat back fitted. 1320 and I wanted to see the gains over standard... I'd fitted the CAI a week previously so this was the only mod I had on my car... I'd been to 1320 before when we had a club RR shootout so I knew what my previous figures were... So to get a benchmark for the exhaust we did a before run... The power figures were not as good as before... Even if you factor in warmer air (time of year) it didn't add up... Took the CAI off and replaced it with a standard airbox and retested... The power figures improved... To make sure that this was where the problem was we refitted the CAI and ran again... Again power was lost... So put the standard box back on an rerun just to make sure... We got the power back...
So from this I and practically everyone would assume that the CAI was the cause of the power loss... I have the graphs around somewhere showing the before and after...

I don't come on here to knock other peoples products or services I just made a point in relation to someones post...

[BigShow]

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

I can answer that, it was our kit. -And guess whos RR 'proved 'it lost power........yep 1320 Autos

I did a before and after test with an Alta CAI V2 at 1320 and it gained 1bhp and thats after opening up the back of the box to give it access to the air via the vent beneath the windscreen. To say that its possible to gain 10 bhp from a CAI is just crazy IMHO. I've fitted CAI's to 5 totally different cars and never ever seen that sort of gain.

I'm not going to say 1320 have the best and most accurate dyno in the world and If I'm honest like most dyno's I'd like to see a fan that is representative of actual airflow seen on the roads at varying speeds...but back to back tests on the same dyno on the same day with the same equipment would I hope give as accurate a test bed as possible. I know they don't doctor results so I trust their bhp figures when testing parts back to back.

[fozthedevil]

in responce to the cone vs standard on a cooper/one currently i have a cone and yes its noisey and yes theres is more throthle responce but after rolling roading it at A independent testers the tester stated i was fueling wrong due to this, which in theory could be lack of power which in return means a cone slowed me down!

[roland2003]

IIRC Alta claim 12bhp increase for their kit. The actual gain on the road I would expect to be more than on the RR, also a more highly modified car (ie pulling in more air), I would expect bigger increases.
But to lose power ....something is not right with those power runs. I'm not even going to go there with what might have happened.