[sam_a156]

Does somebody else share my impression that the Engine & Drivetrain Tuning forum has become awfully silent after the reorganization of the site?

I mean, where are the tuners?

I guess the idea with the reorganization was that instead of mocking each other here, they will all go to their own corners to tell about their achievements...but hey, there is not much going on on those forums either.

I am not missing all that mud throwing so much...but hey, occasionally there were some pretty good semi-civilized and very informative debates too

Or perhaps January is the month when all the tuners take their annual one month vacation...?

Cheers,
Sam

[GTT 280]

check the Tuner Forums... they have their own area now (to prevent arguments and Molotov cocktails etc. )

Cheers,
K.

[Paul Webster]

Myself and Roland celebrate or should that be cosmirate our birthdays this month at least he beats me each year to it

We're flat out with customers cars, looking for sponsors for this year, new website, autosport show etc etc.

We're also trying to plan some events this year for the Mini community which takes up a lot off time.

I suppose more will be revealed in Feb.

The only time you'll see views off these pages rise is when there is controversy the same as any board.

I think these boards are very very tame compared to others which I visit, though some of them can even offend me and make my blood boil when you get a hero behind the key board that doesn't even know the person they're talking about.

But in the right circumstances talking trash is amusing and funny , my sides have been splitting this week with some drag radial racers talking hype and trash now about a $15,000 winner takes all race in October in Florida

[Hyper Active]

Yes, i've been thinking the exact same thing Sam . Was going to start a thread as well, but you beat me to it .

[sam_a156]

Nice to see you back, Paul. Looking forward to hear more.

Little controversy just spices up the debate - as long as it doesn't get personal.

Yeah, I guess it is also true that if you would spend all your time hanging around the forums, heck, who would tune the cars...?

Cheers,
Sam

Ps. and happy birthday!

[Paul Webster]

Cheers Sam

The market place is very hard to predict at the moment most of the tuners out there are feeling the pinch the last couple of months with talks off recession fuel prices going up and everything else that can dampen your day.

Unfortunatley 95% off Minis are still in the wrong hands i.e non-petrolheads.

[sam_a156]

Well, I am at least trying my best to keep you tuners in business

Just came back from the garage after installing Alta Inlet Hose (thanks Lohen).

I only would disagree with Alta's difficulty rating of 1 out of 4 stars...or then I am even more mechanically challenged than I thought

[sam_a156]

Still after sleeping over it:

In the spirit of open discussion/feedback: the division between tuner sections and this forum still feels a bit artificial to me.

A concrete example:

I am interested in trying out a GTT manifold with a stock cat. Should I post a question on GTT forums or here? If at GTT, I could pretty sure to get Roland's attention and get his valuable inputs. However, this way it is 100% sure that none of the other tuners would be able to comment on their experiences in trying stock cats on other manifolds.

IMHO this is limiting the healthy (though sometimes a bit heated) debate we had here earlier.

[Paul Webster]

You're right Sam,the obvious thing to do is to post it here then all tuners can put there opinons across.

The royal we do agrree on quite a few things

[MINIAC]

Quote: Originally Posted by sam_a156 (original)

In the spirit of open discussion/feedback: the division between tuner sections and this forum still feels a bit artificial to me.

A concrete example:

I am interested in trying out a GTT manifold with a stock cat. Should I post a question on GTT forums or here? If at GTT, I could pretty sure to get Roland's attention and get his valuable inputs. However, this way it is 100% sure that none of the other tuners would be able to comment on their experiences in trying stock cats on other manifolds.

IMHO this is limiting the healthy (though sometimes a bit heated) debate we had here earlier.

It seems pretty obvious to me:

If you want only one person's opinion you post in the Supporting Vendor's forum.

If you want everyone's opinion you post in Engine & Drivetrain Tuning.

[BigShow]

Totally agree Sam. The problem now is if you ask a question in the seperate 'tuner forum' such as "BigShow Motorsport, can you tell me if I buy your cold air intake will it benefit my car?"... as a tuner I'm not going to say... "No not in bhp gain but it looks nice"... I'm going to say, "Yes of course it's a must for any modified Cooper S". Whereas if the seperate tuner areas weren't there and you asked the same questions in just the engine & drivetrain section another tuner could say that its only a must on 250bhp conversions because of x, y & z which would start a healthy debate and you could make your mind up on the experiences of the many.

This in my opinion is the problem now, you don't get tuner debate because tuners aren't allowed to post in other tuners forums which kind of defeats the point of a forum (a public meeting or assembly for open discussion).

[Damo]

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original)

Totally agree Sam. The problem now is if you ask a question in the seperate 'tuner forum' such as "BigShow Motorsport, can you tell me if I buy your cold air intake will it benefit my car?"... as a tuner I'm not going to say... "No not in bhp gain but it looks nice"... I'm going to say, "Yes of course it's a must for any modified Cooper S". Whereas if the seperate tuner areas weren't there and you asked the same questions in just the engine & drivetrain section another tuner could say that its only a must on 250bhp conversions because of x, y & z which would start a healthy debate and you could make your mind up on the experiences of the many.

This in my opinion is the problem now, you don't get tuner debate because tuners aren't allowed to post in other tuners forums which kind of defeats the point of a forum (a public meeting or assembly for open discussion).

Exactly.

You could get a tuner, going this is my new product andit will make your car: 10bhp+,/go round corners like its on rails/stop itfrom blowing up/etc etc, and it in fact could do diddly squat, but if the person knows nothing about cars they could be sucked in. Its the other knowledgable people on here that help.

Just look at the previous rear brace debates and about what they actually do, if indeed anything. Its odd how one tuner says something like that couldn't possibly do anything for a cars handling, is now offering it as there latest product

[sam_a156]

+1 x 2!

[MINIAC]

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original)

The problem now is if you ask a question in the seperate 'tuner forum' such as "BigShow Motorsport, can you tell me if I buy your cold air intake will it benefit my car?"... as a tuner I'm not going to say... "No not in bhp gain but it looks nice"... I'm going to say, "Yes of course it's a must for any modified Cooper S". Whereas if the seperate tuner areas weren't there and you asked the same questions in just the engine & drivetrain section another tuner could say that its only a must on 250bhp conversions because of x, y & z which would start a healthy debate and you could make your mind up on the experiences of the many.

This in my opinion is the problem now, you don't get tuner debate because tuners aren't allowed to post in other tuners forums which kind of defeats the point of a forum (a public meeting or assembly for open discussion).

I don't understand the problem

There's nothing that says you have to post product specific questions in the Vendor's forum. If you question the claims regarding a product announced in a Vendor forum you start a thread in one of the public forums where everyone can discuss it.

[minicabrio]

The forums are there, just use them wisely

For example, if I post in GTTs forum... "Hi Roland, like your braces, will they fit my MINI?" Thats a direct question which he will answer... job done.

If I was a newbie, I might post up in a general suspension forum.... "Hi, I'm new and would like braces, what would you recommend?" I'd get a general response and be able to make my own decision.

If I were to start up Jons MINI Tuning Company, and pay my fees, get my own forum and then post that I can get 150bhp from a ONE just by doing an ECU chip without touching the rev limiter, you'd all call me a liar (which i would be), I'd be called into disrepute, and no-one would ever buy a product from me.

So, the vendor forums are there for specific vendor questions, and for them to post about their new products. If you want a broader opinion, use the normal forums. If these forums are quiet, why don't you post a new conversation up?

[Damo]

I understand what MINIAC and minicabrio are saying, but I think its partly that it requires other vendors to go in and read other vendors forums. This in some cases looks lie they're "spying" on each other, and thats even if they can be bothered to check each others forums. Where as when it was one forum everyone could read everyone's.

Plus if my understanding is correct, vendors are modertors in there ownforums, so anything written in them can be deleted or altered in them. Yes if this is a post by somoene ehsle who feels they have a point, they can re-write it elsewhere but its just a thought of what else might they delete? Maybe I'm overly suspicious

[MINIAC]

Quote: Originally Posted by Damo (original)

I understand what MINIAC and minicabrio are saying, but I think its partly that it requires other vendors to go in and read other vendors forums. This in some cases looks lie they're "spying" on each other, and thats even if they can be bothered to check each others forums. Where as when it was one forum everyone could read everyone's.

I guess you missed the Engine and Drivetrain forum going downhill? thread.

Vendors shouldn't have to "bash" other Vendors products to sell their own.

Shouldn't you make your purchasing decisions based on feedback from people who've fitted the product rather than a Vendor's claims about the product?

Quote: Originally Posted by Damo

Plus if my understanding is correct, vendors are modertors in there ownforums, so anything written in them can be deleted or altered in them. Yes if this is a post by somoene ehsle who feels they have a point, they can re-write it elsewhere but its just a thought of what else might they delete? Maybe I'm overly suspicious

Knowing this why would anyone want to post something negative about a Vendor in their forum rather than a public forum

[MINIMANIAUK]

Vendors shouldn't have to "bash" other Vendors products to sell their own.
----agreed

Shouldn't you make your purchasing decisions based on feedback from people who've fitted the product rather than a Vendor's claims about the product?

this can cause some problems as feedback could be "I fitted x and its awesome" or" x exhaust sounds great" if 3 people say the same thing then its a must have!!
hardly balanced or useful
despite what tuners advise ,people will believe what they want to, and buy what they can afford at that time , I could post up 100 times that to improve handling fit a rear anti roll bar,better tyres,and coilovers- result -everyone fits front strut brace,and lowering springs ??? why because a few over stated claims of improvement.
A reasonable answer to a lot of the questions on here is sometimes lost in superlatives ,and tuners cannot easily respond without upsetting someone