MINI2

BigShow · Mar 10th, 2008, 06:43 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

No not oil pump , detonation.....top end of engine pistons probably.

Sounds familiar

-G- · Mar 10th, 2008, 07:28 PM

Had a chat to Lohen today and Im going back tomorrow morning for them to look at the problem! They have a standard Throttle body in stock so fingers crossed after this is fitted my car will be ok again. Will also ask about the Denso plugs they fitted while Im there!

BigShow · Mar 10th, 2008, 11:59 PM

I'm at Lohen tomorrow AM too so they can sort out some issues with my Milltek and have a good look at my Denso's that went bang

-G- · Mar 11th, 2008, 12:56 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original)

I'm at Lohen tomorrow AM too so they can sort out some issues with my Milltek and have a good look at my Denso's that went bang

Which ones were they mate?
IK???

roland2003 · Mar 11th, 2008, 08:52 AM

...that is detonation that has caused that.

Lucky Dave · Mar 11th, 2008, 09:41 AM

You can even see the dent marks on the plug body where the bits have been banging about.

I have seen cars where a throttle body is changed and the intake seal to the charger is moved and then leaks causing poor idle.

Ant FR · Mar 11th, 2008, 09:48 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original)

I'm at Lohen tomorrow AM too so they can sort out some issues with my Milltek and have a good look at my Denso's that went bang

Blimey, you put the post up a while ago slatting DENSO's but surely looking at that it can't be the plugs. Something more going on there to do that amount of damage

In fact i just sent that pic to my mate, who is an authorised DENSO and NGK dealer and has 15yrs experience of the dam things and he's said straight away Detonation.

BigShow · Mar 11th, 2008, 10:50 AM

It was detonation as I heard it before they went bang... Denso IK27's by the way... I was on the 3rd lap of some 'hot' laps when they went.

At the time inlet temp was 51C, water temp 93C. Oh and the broken plug came from... you guessed it, cylinder 1! Fuel was Tesco 99 and oil had been checked before and was at good levels.

1320 are fitting a new head, injectors and servicing it shortly so I will send away a sample of oil for analysis to see what that brings up.

When the last head was replaced 1320 cleaned off all carbon deposits that had built up in the combustion chamber and on the piston top so that wasn't the cause.

That leaves very lean air/fuel ratios (checked on dyno and all good), heating of the charge air prior to entering the combustion chamber (51C), compression of the air molecules from forced induction (??), or poor heat dissipation through the cooling system (??)

Rigsey · Mar 11th, 2008, 10:53 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original)

It was detonation as I heard it before they went bang... Denso IK27's... I was on the 3rd lap of some 'hot' laps when they went.

At the time inlet temp was 51C, water temp 93C. Oh and the broken plug came from... you guessed it, cylinder 1!

Have you managed to retrieve the missing spark plug tip ....

Ant FR · Mar 11th, 2008, 10:54 AM

what injectors are you running, also does this detonation not just prove that yes you can get BHP on the cheap but you are risking longevity

BigShow · Mar 11th, 2008, 11:04 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Rigsey (original)

Have you managed to retrieve the missing spark plug tip ....

Nope... dread to think where it ended up. I'm sat in Lohen's waiting room now so they're investigating things.

Ant FR · Mar 11th, 2008, 11:10 AM

Ok, my mate just sent me this.

looking in my plug book they have a picture that looks like that Mini plug it says the causes of the plug would be over advanced ign timing, too lean fuel mixture, blocked inj, insufficent cooling, excessive deposits in the combustion chamber.

its say the firing end temp would be in excess of 870 degrees!!!!

But he also adds this little Ditto, and this is 15yrs experience talking

there is always a reason why stuff happened and 90 % of the time its not the parts they blame just cos the plugs are like that dont mean they are @ fault, plugs do as there told not much can go wrong with em

So be interesting to hear the responce. My mate has been supplying Sumo Power with Denso's for the last 5yrs and Sumo power run quite a few 1000bhp + cars without problem

BigShow · Mar 11th, 2008, 11:14 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original)

what injectors are you running, also does this detonation not just prove that yes you can get BHP on the cheap but you are risking longevity

Standard ones at the moment, 440cc shortly when the RMW head goes on.

I've not done anything different to my engine then any tuner would have done and as you know well enough, the smallest things can go wrong and have catastrophic effects... is that down to the engine being modified?? Probably... am I worried... not one bit... if after all the mods I've done my engine goes bang and I need a knew one so be it, thats what can happen when you change things from the OEM norm and you try and get more power than your car was designed to handle.

If I wanted a modified car backed up by a warranty I'd have stuck with my AMD S4 as even after AMD strangled 420 bhp out of the V8 (std 339 bhp) it was still covered under my Audi Dealer warranty. But I'm too poor to have one of those now

Does any Mini tuner give a complete car warranty after they've done mods... nope. So I'll happily keep tuning my car knowing that one day soon its going to go wrong. If you think any other way you're just going to be very disappointed.

BigShow · Mar 11th, 2008, 11:18 AM

I'm pretty sure its down to insufficient cooling... 51C with an ambient of 8C is very high... solution???

Ant FR · Mar 11th, 2008, 11:26 AM

i would'nt say that, i'm pretty confident of GTT's warranty on work done.

Let us know what they say,

Oh and have you seen the price of S4's now, they start at 4k now

Ant FR · Mar 11th, 2008, 11:33 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original)

I'm pretty sure its down to insufficient cooling... 51C with an ambient of 8C is very high... solution???

Chargecooler, oh and oil cooler

BigShow · Mar 11th, 2008, 12:00 PM

They've found the missing tips!!! They were in the cat

Rigsey · Mar 11th, 2008, 12:02 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original)

I'm pretty sure its down to insufficient cooling... 51C with an ambient of 8C is very high... solution???

Out of interest, how long a period were you running at these temps?

BigShow · Mar 11th, 2008, 12:06 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original)

Chargecooler, oh and oil cooler

The chargecooler won't be so effective on track though.. oil cooler defo but will check temps first.

alski · Mar 11th, 2008, 12:16 PM

not long, i think ben only ever does a few flying laps at bedford, always with a warm up cool down routine and he did not get there till afterlunch after being at the 1320 miniaddiction rr day
also his car must have been static for a good half an hour while he took me to get my car sorted [db ] and navigated for me for a few laps

Mar 10th, 2008, 06:43 PM	#21
BigShow Tunnel Runner My Classifieds Join Date: Aug 2007 Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 928 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original) No not oil pump , detonation.....top end of engine pistons probably. Sounds familiar http://www.MiniTorque.com

Mar 10th, 2008, 07:28 PM	#22 (permalink)
-G- Chasing 295bhp! Join Date: May 2005 Location: Lancashire Local Time: 09:56 PM Posts: 162 Offline	Had a chat to Lohen today and Im going back tomorrow morning for them to look at the problem! They have a standard Throttle body in stock so fingers crossed after this is fitted my car will be ok again. Will also ask about the Denso plugs they fitted while Im there! GP 1021

Mar 10th, 2008, 11:59 PM	#23 (permalink)
BigShow Tunnel Runner My Classifieds Join Date: Aug 2007 Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 928 Offline	I'm at Lohen tomorrow AM too so they can sort out some issues with my Milltek and have a good look at my Denso's that went bang http://www.MiniTorque.com

Mar 11th, 2008, 12:56 AM	#24 (permalink)
-G- Chasing 295bhp! Join Date: May 2005 Location: Lancashire Local Time: 09:56 PM Posts: 162 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original) I'm at Lohen tomorrow AM too so they can sort out some issues with my Milltek and have a good look at my Denso's that went bang Which ones were they mate? IK??? GP 1021

Mar 11th, 2008, 08:52 AM	#25 (permalink)
roland2003 MINI 2 Sponsor GT Tuning Join Date: Jan 2004 Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 2,731 Offline	...that is detonation that has caused that. www.gttuning.com

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Mar 11th, 2008, 09:41 AM	#26 (permalink)
Lucky Dave Thinking Minis My Classifieds Join Date: Jun 2005 Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 811 Offline	You can even see the dent marks on the plug body where the bits have been banging about. I have seen cars where a throttle body is changed and the intake seal to the charger is moved and then leaks causing poor idle. For All Your Mini's Needs 01905 620011

Mar 11th, 2008, 09:48 AM	#27 (permalink)
Ant FR MINI2 Master My Classifieds Join Date: Oct 2006 Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 1,922 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original) I'm at Lohen tomorrow AM too so they can sort out some issues with my Milltek and have a good look at my Denso's that went bang Blimey, you put the post up a while ago slatting DENSO's but surely looking at that it can't be the plugs. Something more going on there to do that amount of damage In fact i just sent that pic to my mate, who is an authorised DENSO and NGK dealer and has 15yrs experience of the dam things and he's said straight away Detonation.

Mar 11th, 2008, 10:50 AM	#28 (permalink)
BigShow Tunnel Runner My Classifieds Join Date: Aug 2007 Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 928 Offline	It was detonation as I heard it before they went bang... Denso IK27's by the way... I was on the 3rd lap of some 'hot' laps when they went. At the time inlet temp was 51C, water temp 93C. Oh and the broken plug came from... you guessed it, cylinder 1! Fuel was Tesco 99 and oil had been checked before and was at good levels. 1320 are fitting a new head, injectors and servicing it shortly so I will send away a sample of oil for analysis to see what that brings up. When the last head was replaced 1320 cleaned off all carbon deposits that had built up in the combustion chamber and on the piston top so that wasn't the cause. That leaves very lean air/fuel ratios (checked on dyno and all good), heating of the charge air prior to entering the combustion chamber (51C), compression of the air molecules from forced induction (??), or poor heat dissipation through the cooling system (??) http://www.MiniTorque.com

Mar 11th, 2008, 10:53 AM	#29 (permalink)
Rigsey MINI2 Senior My Classifieds Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kent Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 532 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original) It was detonation as I heard it before they went bang... Denso IK27's... I was on the 3rd lap of some 'hot' laps when they went. At the time inlet temp was 51C, water temp 93C. Oh and the broken plug came from... you guessed it, cylinder 1! Have you managed to retrieve the missing spark plug tip .... GTT, GRS, Janspeed, JCW, OMP + various other bits - 232.6bhp, 191.2lbft on 1320's rolling road

Mar 11th, 2008, 10:54 AM	#30 (permalink)
Ant FR MINI2 Master My Classifieds Join Date: Oct 2006 Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 1,922 Offline	what injectors are you running, also does this detonation not just prove that yes you can get BHP on the cheap but you are risking longevity

Mar 11th, 2008, 11:04 AM	#31 (permalink)
BigShow Tunnel Runner My Classifieds Join Date: Aug 2007 Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 928 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Rigsey (original) Have you managed to retrieve the missing spark plug tip .... Nope... dread to think where it ended up. I'm sat in Lohen's waiting room now so they're investigating things. http://www.MiniTorque.com

Mar 11th, 2008, 11:10 AM	#32 (permalink)
Ant FR MINI2 Master My Classifieds Join Date: Oct 2006 Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 1,922 Offline	Ok, my mate just sent me this. looking in my plug book they have a picture that looks like that Mini plug it says the causes of the plug would be over advanced ign timing, too lean fuel mixture, blocked inj, insufficent cooling, excessive deposits in the combustion chamber. its say the firing end temp would be in excess of 870 degrees!!!! But he also adds this little Ditto, and this is 15yrs experience talking there is always a reason why stuff happened and 90 % of the time its not the parts they blame just cos the plugs are like that dont mean they are @ fault, plugs do as there told not much can go wrong with em So be interesting to hear the responce. My mate has been supplying Sumo Power with Denso's for the last 5yrs and Sumo power run quite a few 1000bhp + cars without problem

Mar 11th, 2008, 11:14 AM	#33 (permalink)
BigShow Tunnel Runner My Classifieds Join Date: Aug 2007 Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 928 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original) what injectors are you running, also does this detonation not just prove that yes you can get BHP on the cheap but you are risking longevity Standard ones at the moment, 440cc shortly when the RMW head goes on. I've not done anything different to my engine then any tuner would have done and as you know well enough, the smallest things can go wrong and have catastrophic effects... is that down to the engine being modified?? Probably... am I worried... not one bit... if after all the mods I've done my engine goes bang and I need a knew one so be it, thats what can happen when you change things from the OEM norm and you try and get more power than your car was designed to handle. If I wanted a modified car backed up by a warranty I'd have stuck with my AMD S4 as even after AMD strangled 420 bhp out of the V8 (std 339 bhp) it was still covered under my Audi Dealer warranty. But I'm too poor to have one of those now Does any Mini tuner give a complete car warranty after they've done mods... nope. So I'll happily keep tuning my car knowing that one day soon its going to go wrong. If you think any other way you're just going to be very disappointed. http://www.MiniTorque.com

Mar 11th, 2008, 11:18 AM	#34 (permalink)
BigShow Tunnel Runner My Classifieds Join Date: Aug 2007 Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 928 Offline	I'm pretty sure its down to insufficient cooling... 51C with an ambient of 8C is very high... solution??? http://www.MiniTorque.com

Mar 11th, 2008, 11:26 AM	#35 (permalink)
Ant FR MINI2 Master My Classifieds Join Date: Oct 2006 Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 1,922 Offline	i would'nt say that, i'm pretty confident of GTT's warranty on work done. Let us know what they say, Oh and have you seen the price of S4's now, they start at 4k now

Mar 11th, 2008, 11:33 AM	#36 (permalink)
Ant FR MINI2 Master My Classifieds Join Date: Oct 2006 Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 1,922 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original) I'm pretty sure its down to insufficient cooling... 51C with an ambient of 8C is very high... solution??? Chargecooler, oh and oil cooler

Mar 11th, 2008, 12:00 PM	#37 (permalink)
BigShow Tunnel Runner My Classifieds Join Date: Aug 2007 Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 928 Offline	They've found the missing tips!!! They were in the cat http://www.MiniTorque.com

Mar 11th, 2008, 12:02 PM	#38 (permalink)
Rigsey MINI2 Senior My Classifieds Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kent Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 532 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original) I'm pretty sure its down to insufficient cooling... 51C with an ambient of 8C is very high... solution??? Out of interest, how long a period were you running at these temps? GTT, GRS, Janspeed, JCW, OMP + various other bits - 232.6bhp, 191.2lbft on 1320's rolling road

Mar 11th, 2008, 12:06 PM	#39 (permalink)
BigShow Tunnel Runner My Classifieds Join Date: Aug 2007 Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 928 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original) Chargecooler, oh and oil cooler The chargecooler won't be so effective on track though.. oil cooler defo but will check temps first. http://www.MiniTorque.com

Mar 11th, 2008, 12:16 PM	#40 (permalink)
alski dyno-mite, might not.... My Classifieds Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: banbury Local Time: 08:56 PM Posts: 988 Offline	not long, i think ben only ever does a few flying laps at bedford, always with a warm up cool down routine and he did not get there till afterlunch after being at the 1320 miniaddiction rr day also his car must have been static for a good half an hour while he took me to get my car sorted [db ] and navigated for me for a few laps carefree

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