[BigShow]

Quote: Originally Posted by alski (original)

not long, i think ben only ever does a few flying laps at bedford, always with a warm up cool down routine and he did not get there till afterlunch after being at the 1320 miniaddiction rr day
also his car must have been static for a good half an hour while he took me to get my car sorted [db ] and navigated for me for a few laps

What he said... I normally do 2 warm up laps, 3 hot laps and 1 full cool down lap... then come in, pop the bonnet to let the car cool down for about 20 mins and do the same again.

[Lucky Dave]

running lean at high rpm?

but until you fit 4 egt sensors and a wideband co2 you are just guessing.

Do you know what boost you are topping at?

My co2 was way way rich on the rollers, and it was costing me horsepower, but out on the track it was just right?

[roland2003]

People need to understand that checking adjusting AF ratio on the RR is very risky....it will run considerably leaner on the road. Thats why we would only set set it/check it on the road.
The difference is quite large sometimes too. As Dave says you can tune to achieve impressive power on the RR OR tune for road performance + good reliability headroom.

[Ant FR]

i like the sound of the second option best

[MINIMANIAUK]

to achieve the 850+ degrees to melt the plug and achieve detonation , a few things have an impact timing .fuel quality,mixture ,intake temp,throttle opening,load on engine,-
the cause is simply too much pressure and too much temperature causing the mixture to combust - in this case I suspect that the cylinders were /are not clearing fast enough ,leaving residual temperature and pressure in the cylinder to add to the incoming charge.
the exhaust valves ,head ,and manifold all play a part in removing heat and pressure from the cylinder ,the manifold also plays a major role,as does the exhaust
upping boost without allowing the cylinders to scavenge properly will always leave the risk of detonation .
look at the boost curve on a dyno plot with too small a pulley and you see it rise at the higher rpms as the cylinder head /manifold exceed there flow capability ,you are now entering a dangerous area .
The stock head is very poor as shown by the huge gains that you get ( the last one we supplied made 36bhp with cam) the manifold 4-1 also not the best for scavenging.
The MINI is not tuned until a head is fitted ,fiddling around with all other parameters still leaves this basic problem waiting in the wings
my 2p worth!

[Ant FR]

i think as the proud owner of a stage 2 head i would fully agrea with that. I think now the head is done on mine it just feels more solid. the power feels a lot more mechanical ( ie the engine is doing it more) not just relying on upped boost etc.

[Paul Webster]

Roland we usually see .5 afr diff from flat out in 4th on the rollers and flat out in 4th on the track.

Dave was unsusual circumstances, I'm sure if he went back on the results would be different now.

For people looking in who are trying to work out how you can tell the signs of detonation the answer is the little black spots on the white porcelin.

What amazes me with this plug is the fact that it melted like this, people might assume its detonation, people might assume its to lean but without a data logger everyone is just guessing.

I know off one customer who had a full proof setup and was having it large with a Scooby on track but thankfully his best mate said whatever you do fit the best afr guage you can, fortunatley he took his advise and it paid off because at 130 down the back straight it was at 11.2 then suddenly it went to 15.0

Luckly he caught it and saved his engine.

We're lucky to have Big Show as a customer because he does have the right mental attitude concerning tuning cars.

[Ant FR]

just a pity he ain't got deeper pockets eh Paul.........lol

otherwise we may have seen a 4wd 1320 turbo'd stroked 2.0 with nitrous running 600bhp........

[Ant FR]

also are AF meters hard to fit,

[Paul Webster]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original)

also are AF meters hard to fit,

ROTFLMAO think about it does it matter how hard or what the cost is.

I must pre warn you all though that remember it is reading an average of all four so you could have one really lean and 3 rich and still go bang.

[Ant FR]

right thats it. Nothing is straigh forward is it


Everybody there is a shop round the corner from here called Evans cycles.

They can sell you a contraption, they call it a push bike or something, apparently it can do up to 40mph at a push, uses no fuel, is 100% reliable and can also make you fitter. Sounds to good to be true, but i think it may save a lot of cash over these cars we all use and will be more reliable. I can look into a group buy if enough are interested in making the change..........

[Paul Webster]

The other point I must bring to the table is at Bedford Autodrome our car was detonating like mad on the 17% down the back straight in 4th 5th.

Unfortunatley I wasn't recording so I cant tell you any facts, why did I keep my foot in? for R&D of course so we could have some broken bits to look at, now the strangest thing is that my cheap NGK un-super dooper spark plugs still look okay no melted tips etc etc.

Once we have a tune in the car I think the detonation will go away................................

[Paul Webster]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original)

right thats it. Nothing is straigh forward is it


Everybody there is a shop round the corner from here called Evans cycles.

They can sell you a contraption, they call it a push bike or something, apparently it can do up to 40mph at a push, uses no fuel, is 100% reliable and can also make you fitter. Sounds to good to be true, but i think it may save a lot of cash over these cars we all use and will be more reliable. I can look into a group buy if enough are interested in making the change..........

ROTFLMAO twice within 5mins off each other, please stop otherwise I'll be down the hospital having my sides stiched up.

[Ant FR]

seriously Paul, is there an option you could recomend, as i am keen on something like this if it can be done for not mega bucks. but if its a few hundred quid fitted then it may be something worth while getting done.

[Snowie]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original)

seriously Paul, is there an option you could recomend, as i am keen on something like this if it can be done for not mega bucks. but if its a few hundred quid fitted then it may be something worth while getting done.

Talk to Lucky Dave I believe he has a sensor in each exhaust outlet for exactly this reason

Alan

[Paul Webster]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original)

just a pity he ain't got deeper pockets eh Paul.........lol

otherwise we may have seen a 4wd 1320 turbo'd stroked 2.0 with nitrous running 600bhp........

You're righ there, One Day Rodders

As Big Show will tell you I constantly nag at him not to have pretty bits done and get a decent data logger but alas to know avail.

But then again he is leaving the car with me for a week and............................................... ........

[Jaw_F430]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1320autos (original)

You're righ there, One Day Rodders

As Big Show will tell you I constantly nag at him not to have pretty bits done and get a decent data logger but alas to know avail.

But then again he is leaving the car with me for a week and............................................... ........

Just PMd you Paul

[Paul Webster]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original)

seriously Paul, is there an option you could recomend, as i am keen on something like this if it can be done for not mega bucks. but if its a few hundred quid fitted then it may be something worth while getting done.

Its very hard and I have been looking at different things to try and find a solution which I have sort off but I need to follow it up and try it myself, I dont like customers doing R&D for me If I can help it but some are just want it done and listen to me sometimes

We had a customer in today who said I wish I had foound you first because I could off given you the 15K I've spent on it and I would have a better car and some change as well.

I think its only under extreme circumstances that people will find the weakness, i.e drag racing and track days.

[Ant FR]

i know the SEAT boys and Renault 5 boys all seem to swear by these,

Innovate Motorsports: LM1, LM2, Air/Fuel Ratio, Gauges, DB, G2. G3

Where would you palce that though, before the split or would you need one for each box.

[MINI-Morgan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Snowie (original)

Talk to Lucky Dave I believe he has a sensor in each exhaust outlet for exactly this reason

Alan

Wasnt that EGTs instead?