[Loui]

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

Sounds impressive, like you say what WHP was it ? ( as Jan would say) and you need to use the Surrey RR to get an independant comparison , also if you can, Milway Sports RR in Andover where I got 273bhp ,and that was only a GTT stage 2 head, not our stage 4.
AMD's RR is famous for high readings, so not ideal.
You should walk the (easier of the 2) 1 min 20 sec challenge round CC I laid down, would you like to increase the bet?
Still cant see why Louis car only gains 13bhp with this head, yet Big Shows gains 40 bhp?
I think the independant comparisons will help here, either that or could there be huge variations in the heads to explain this?
.

My car gained 20odd bhp in its present form an 27whp roland

[BigShow]

Quote: Originally Posted by Loui (original)

My car gained 20odd bhp in its present form an 27whp roland

This is why I know Loui will soon be taking the crown of most powerful M45 car ... so I'll be making the most out of my 5 mins of Mini related fame now while I can

[MINI-Morgan]

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original)

This is why I know Loui will soon be taking the crown of most powerful M45 car ... so I'll be making the most out of my 5 mins of Mini related fame now while I can

lol! Whats your rev limit at the moment? Stock?

Will be interesting to see the difference with the tune and 440 injectors

[BigShow]

Quote: Originally Posted by MINI-Morgan (original)

lol! Whats your rev limit at the moment? Stock?

Will be interesting to see the difference with the tune and 440 injectors

It's running the superchips map so I've seen that hit 7.4k rpm on the dyno but as you can see the power was made at less than that.

I can't wait to see what it does! April is gonna be a fun month

[Revolution Mini Works]

who would have ever thought that Roland now wants WHP numbers...... funny how things change


RMW changing the world ....... one head at a time

[Revolution Mini Works]

Quote: Originally Posted by Aberdeen Al (original)

Jan - Do you tune / re-map MCS without your head / components?

If so what would be the approx. cost?

Cheers

Al,

you will need to contact 1320autos to find out as they will be setting up the car and I will be remote tuning it. My cost is $350 US

[Aberdeen Al]

Quote: Originally Posted by Revolution Mini Works (original)

Al,

you will need to contact 1320autos to find out as they will be setting up the car and I will be remote tuning it. My cost is $350 US

Spot on !

[GRSmotorsport]

Hi Roland,

Why not come along to the Surrey RR day, be nice to catch up again, even if you don't put your car on the rollers.

For anyone who think Bigshow's results are fixed, my MCS showed 250bhp at 1320's RR day. When I was at the Surrey RR day last November I had 254bhp, these rollers are the same as West Tuning have where I had 265.1bhp so if anything 1320's rollers are showing less....

[BigShow]

Quote: Originally Posted by GRSmotorsport (original)

Hi Roland,

Why not come along to the Surrey RR day, be nice to catch up again, even if you don't put your car on the rollers.

For anyone who think Bigshow's results are fixed, my MCS showed 250bhp at 1320's RR day. When I was at the Surrey RR day last November I had 254bhp, these rollers are the same as West Tuning have where I had 265.1bhp so if anything 1320's rollers are showing less....

Showing less bhp you say.... Sweet!!!!

[Revolution Mini Works]

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original)

Showing less bhp you say.... Sweet!!!!

as Tuls would say..............UNPOSSIBLE

[MINIMANIAUK]

Strikes me rolling road results are viewed a bit like Zimbabwean election results on here!!

[alski]

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original)

Showing less bhp you say.... Sweet!!!!

whats good news for you, is now good for me too, 230-240? what ever, you still end up with a big gain, and i know you wanted every pony you could find to beat me at the mini addiction day, so you were not holding back any horses then,
anyway i thought every one had agreed that its the gain that counts and not so much the absolute figure, so as peter snow would say we have not got the final figures in yet ........but early indications are good

[robbo mcs]

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original)

I'd love to see your graph just to compare where the power comes in and where the torque comes in... obviously yours is a higher spec conversion than mine as mine is lacking:

Optimised bypass valve
Twin bearing idler pulley
Adjustable cam timing sprocket
63mm throttle body
440cc Injectors

Hi,

I would be surprised if your car didn't have an adjustable cam timing sprocket. You just may not be aware of it. A top notch shop putting a cam in your car and tuning to the degree they are / or are planning to do should definitely do it to allow fine adjustment of cam alignment. It might not be Roland's product, but they probably have fabricated their own

Cheers

Robbo

[BigShow]

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMANIAUK (original)

Strikes me rolling road results are viewed a bit like Zimbabwean election results on here!!

LOL!!

Quote: Originally Posted by alski (original)

whats good news for you, is now good for me too, 230-240? what ever, you still end up with a big gain, and i know you wanted every pony you could find to beat me at the mini addiction day, so you were not holding back any horses then,
anyway i thought every one had agreed that its the gain that counts and not so much the absolute figure, so as peter snow would say we have not got the final figures in yet ........but early indications are good

That was quality that we ended up competing for 0.2 bhp, I had to concentrate my mind powers on those rollers real hard to push out that extra 0.2 bhp

It's all about the gains!! But until its on Surrey RR it can't be confirmed, although can I take the average of the 3 dyno figures?

[roland2003]

Hi, its the latest bhp figure Im interested to see on a Surrey RR day, not the original figures, reason being a lower 'original' bhp helps show more gain .
Why is the WHP figure not up....1320?.....Jan?.....
My car is early high gearing too, more camber as you have may show MORE power as contact patch/drag is less (probably minimal tbh) . Its lowering that effects the WHP slightly.
Cant see any logic in 1320 not optimising your bypass valve, the cars been apart enough times recently to make it a simple job?
GTT Idler pulley adds no power, ditto the sprocket as was never adjusted either side of nominal to reap potential gains (Shrick cam timing is very precise, other cams maybe not so close as per Robbos post). Wheel spin on the rollers was a real problem for our car on the RR.
We ran 99 Ron, did 273bhp & 240whp, then also 270bhp & 239bhp another day with 50 Mini people watching. Still only our stage 2 head GTT stage 2 head ( ie 2 notchs below our top head)
Be interesting to see if your reliability improves now, 3 years of track abuse like Mine, Karls and recently Lees is gonna take a long time for you to proove......CC should test it all well for you.

[BigShow]

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

Hi, its the latest bhp figure Im interested to see on a Surrey RR day, not the original figures, reason being a lower 'original' bhp helps show more gain .

Well my last Surrey RR print out shows 221.2 bhp, can I use that to show gains? But I agree once the 440's go in and the remap is done the Surrey RR figure will be the most important.

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

Why is the WHP figure not up....1320?.....Jan?.....
My car is early high gearing too, more camber as you have may show MORE power as contact patch/drag is less (probably minimal tbh) . Its lowering that effects the WHP slightly.

Why is your dyno graph not up, why is Lee's WHP figure not up... Roland.... Roland...

Just to show transparancy these are all my dyno results at different stages of mods showing bhp and whp:

1320 RR: 182.5 bhp, 144.6 whp = loss of 37.9 (20.77%) Mods: Powerflow Catback, Alta CAI, S-Spokes, 215/45/17

Surrey RR: 221.2 bhp, 184.9 whp = loss of 36.3 (16.41%) Mods: 15% Pulley, Janspeed, Milltek, GRS, Denso's, Superchips map, (Warped Head), S-Spokes, 215/40/17

1320 RR: 239 bhp, 198.8 whp = loss of 41.1 (17.20%) Mods: 15% Pulley, Janspeed, Milltek, GRS, NGKS, Superchips map, (New stock MCS Head), TD 1.2's, 215/45/17

1320 RR: 242.1 bhp, 192.9 whp = loss of 49.2 (20.33%) Mods: 17% Pulley, Janspeed, Milltek, GRS, NGKS, Superchips map, TD 1.2's, 215/45/17

1320 RR: 281 bhp, 231.4 whp = loss of 49.7 (17.69%) Mods: See top of thread, TD 1.2's, 205/40/17

If I had Loui's transmission loss at 11.43% I'd have 248.8 whp!! So there is some work to be done there (and it will be done ) to find some extra whp.

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

Cant see any logic in 1320 not optimising your bypass valve, the cars been apart enough times recently to make it a simple job?
GTT Idler pulley adds no power, ditto the sprocket as was never adjusted either side of nominal to reap potential gains (Shrick cam timing is very precise, other cams maybe not so close as per Robbos post).

1320's ethos, which I now subscribe too, is to sell the least products to make the most bhp... but feel free to tell me, from your experience of optimising the bypass valves, what extra bhp will this give?? At the end of the day it's been working for the last 42k miles and when it fails I'll replace it then but if it aint gonna give me more bhp and it aint broke... you know the rest.

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

Wheel spin on the rollers was a real problem for our car on the RR.
We ran 99 Ron, did 273bhp & 240whp, then also 270bhp & 239bhp another day with 50 Mini people watching. Still only our stage 2 head GTT stage 2 head ( ie 2 notchs below our top head)

I only ran 98 Ron ... shame you haven't got any figures for your stage 4 head! Haven't any of your customers stage 4 cars been on the dyno? I'd love to see more cars experiencing 280 + bhp whether they be GTT, 1320 or anynone else, I'm not precious about it as it's good for the Mini modding community.

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

Be interesting to see if your reliability improves now, 3 years of track abuse like Mine, Karls and recently Lees is gonna take a long time for you to proove......CC should test it all well for you.

Erm... so far I've blown a plug on track and I warped a head due to overheating the car on a Tunnel Run, (which was before it was even modded!) Lohen didn't pick up on it when they modded it but 1320 did when they dyno'd it hence why I was so glad to find 1320 otherwise I'd have always been down on power.

Compared to some cars out there my reliability record is extremely strong considering the car's done numerous tracks days, 16 runs up the pod and over 30 performance box tests! So I think my car has had its fair share of abuse and stood up well thank-you...

But while you're opening that can of reliability worms... Ant's car needed a whole new engine didn't it and that's got GTT mods?? Lee's car, didn't that breakdown on its first track day (what was it that needed replacing exactly??)... But the difference between you and I is that I've always expected reliability issues because I'm pushing the car past its normal limits.

IMO, any tuner that expects a tuned car to be more reliable than a stock car is just setting them and their customers up for a big fall.

[roland2003]

Or to be more correct with 11% losses added to your 231whp, you would now have only 256bhp at the flywheel not 281. I cant see how your car could possibly be losing 50bhp in drivetrain losses something needs looking into there......................as Jan would say if it were our car ' what correction factor you guys using? '
Bypass mod whilst off the car?.....................a few minutes, why not do it?
My whp I will dig out & put up (I have it tucked away, but is not lost so dont panic)
Lees car was the PCV valve (OEM Mini part) jamming.
Ants car is oil pump again BMW part, which brings me on to increased rpm limit (as his car had prior to GTT mods). Im of the opinion that very high rpm use is probably the single biggest factor (aside from mileage) that increases this risk. Hence we dont recommend increased rev limit to gain power + new oil pumps at 50K if driven hard. Two cars with BMW faults in about 500+ with GTT proven conversions.

[MINI-Morgan]

The drivetrain loss is the most interesting section for me. 8HP increase in loss going between 15% to 17% Good to know!

Now do you have a dyno from when you have the stock pulley with the same tyres? Just trying to work out a guess of how much HP you are loosing from stock by using a 17% pulley.

p.s. the by pass valves were adjusted to be part open from factory as they useto stick so your statement of if it works then I dont need to fix it is very bad. As long as its adjusted to close fully then there is nothing to worry about and you wont be loosing boost. I can bet someone has already done it for you in the past!

[BigShow]

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

Or to be more correct with 11% losses added to your 231whp, you would now have only 256bhp at the flywheel not 281.

Oh... my ... god! You just can't be happy for someone with 281 bhp... !

On Lee's thread I said that both you and he had created the ultimate road/track Mini to show respect because it was an awesome achievement! You even PM'd me to thank me for my supportive post!

But because another tuner has provided me with more BHP than your GTT260 conversion you have to belittle it!!

[BigShow]

P.S Regarding your ridiculous rev limit comment... read your own post from when you made this statement on the GTT/Millway RR thread and I quote:

Sorry havn't got the rpms but my 'peak power 'was at 7150rpm and still climbing at a steep angle,looks like that rev limiter is preventing it going even higher. 7400rpm here I come!!!!!
Regards Roland GT Tuning

http://www.mini2.com/forum/uk-irelan...-post-1-a.html