[DaFlake]

Quote: Originally Posted by batou (original)

A word of advice if a tuner tries to hard sell you an aftermarket remap (ie. superchips, bluefin) to get to 220bhp, walkaway. Remaps are for power delivery and smoothness not to achieve your high powered goals. You only really need one if you get a bigger head.

Not really true and this has been argued numerous times with no real winner. Even RMW tunes cars without a bigger head. Products like MTH and Bluefin do offer some advantage over stock but you do not do this for more HP. You do this to tell your car how to best use what it has. Obviously a custom tune is the way to go if you can get it and there are a few folks up there that will do this. Funny how nobody questions the JCW tune when they mention all of this. Even MINI changes the ECU (conservatively) when up-rating the car.

Quote: Originally Posted by batou (original)

A 15% pulley and colder plugs was fitted to a guys cooper s by 1320autos (think it was ewmarine or tristo) and his put 216bhp down on the rollers, i did the same (pulley and plugs) before I came across 1320 and it cost under £300!!! Awesome first upgrade.

Nice advert for the company but it was pure luck! Every engine is going to respond differently to upgrades. He got lucky.....

Quote: Originally Posted by batou (original)

After that it's best to let it breathe better and give it more fuel so an uprated intercooler (GRS approx. £400 or if your on a buget get a one off Cooper S GP if you can (I paid £200 for mine)) to help it cool down and breathe better. Then for more fuel bigger injectors (Works ones are 380cc and are what I use, standard are 330cc.

Good advice that I have heard from just about every tuner I have spoken to.

Quote: Originally Posted by batou (original)

Your probably looking at £1500 tops for the lot fitted (you can do the intercooler yourself easily) and around 225-230ish bhp and some extra pennies saved to get a nice sounding exhaust/intake system

Again more good advice.

Quote: Originally Posted by batou (original)

Paul at 1320 autos is one of the only tuners that will post up the basics you need to make power and all the add on rubbish you don't need to buy. Because this gives us mini owners more of an insight into this other tuners aren't happy because it leads to them getting more questions and less money out of us. How many garages do you know whos tag line is "It's not how much you spend, it's how well your spend it".

Again, pure marketing. 1320's will treat you well but the tag line that you are using is actually from NAM given to RMW because of the way he did business. Last time I checked their heads were some of the most expensive on the market as well so I don't think it really fits to be honest and now they have an entire engine swap. You are going to spend a lot of money with them. Their marketing just seems to make you think that you are not. I spent 200 dollars for my pulley and plugs and fitted it myself. I had fun and saved a ton of money. I have now fitted over 25 more pulleys with great success and can tell you that 300 pounds better include the parts!

Quote: Originally Posted by batou (original)

The tuners are banned for a few weeks for arguing, 1320 get a lot of stick from other tuners because the give out more info about what we need to spend than some tuners would like.

Now you are just baiting people for a fight..... Be very careful...

Quote: Originally Posted by batou (original)

If you want to spend a lot of money, get good service and decent power go GTT / Lohen, if you want to spend less money, get good service, make the same power (or maybe more) and learn a hell of lot about your car go 1320autos.

Unless you have used all three vendors, you can't really say this can you? A 15% pulley is a 15% pulley and is going to have the same affect on the car whether it is installed by GTT, Lohen or 1320. If Roland charges a bit more to install it and is right around the corner compared to me driving for 3 hours to get to 1320 then there is little money to be saved, you might as well have Roland do it.


Bottom line is that you guys are falling for the marketing ploy of the vendors. Comments like the one above really prove it. All of the vendors here are worthy of a visit and they all have a different approach to tuning. Do your own research and you will see that some are good for some things and others for another. I don't personally think that there is a one vendor to fit everyone.

Quote: Originally Posted by batou (original)

PS. It's also more about location but most sponsors on here will be happy to answer your questions even if your not getting things fitted by them.

As I mentioned above, this is really the case. If you have to drive a long way to "save" money, then you are really not saving it at all.

[batou]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaFlake (original)

Not really true and this has been argued numerous times with no real winner. Even RMW tunes cars without a bigger head. Products like MTH and Bluefin do offer some advantage over stock but you do not do this for more HP. You do this to tell your car how to best use what it has. Obviously a custom tune is the way to go if you can get it and there are a few folks up there that will do this. Funny how nobody questions the JCW tune when they mention all of this. Even MINI changes the ECU (conservatively) when up-rating the car.



Nice advert for the company but it was pure luck! Every engine is going to respond differently to upgrades. He got lucky.....



Good advice that I have heard from just about every tuner I have spoken to.



Again more good advice.



Again, pure marketing. 1320's will treat you well but the tag line that you are using is actually from NAM given to RMW because of the way he did business. Last time I checked their heads were some of the most expensive on the market as well so I don't think it really fits to be honest and now they have an entire engine swap. You are going to spend a lot of money with them. Their marketing just seems to make you think that you are not. I spent 200 dollars for my pulley and plugs and fitted it myself. I had fun and saved a ton of money. I have now fitted over 25 more pulleys with great success and can tell you that 300 pounds better include the parts!



Now you are just baiting people for a fight..... Be very careful...



Unless you have used all three vendors, you can't really say this can you? A 15% pulley is a 15% pulley and is going to have the same affect on the car whether it is installed by GTT, Lohen or 1320. If Roland charges a bit more to install it and is right around the corner compared to me driving for 3 hours to get to 1320 then there is little money to be saved, you might as well have Roland do it.


Bottom line is that you guys are falling for the marketing ploy of the vendors. Comments like the one above really prove it. All of the vendors here are worthy of a visit and they all have a different approach to tuning. Do your own research and you will see that some are good for some things and others for another. I don't personally think that there is a one vendor to fit everyone.



As I mentioned above, this is really the case. If you have to drive a long way to "save" money, then you are really not saving it at all.

Didn't mean to get your back up daflake, I'm not marketing for them. Just my experience, I don't get special treatment or discount (and seen as there are more tuners than customers here try asking for one from anyone lol). Daflake, i honestly think if you saw 1320's outfit you might realise something. Of course I've never dealt with anyone else yet so I can't coment and I haven't. It's just others sell kits (like a 210 kit).

All you need is healthy compression, no leaks (the luck part) then a pulley and plugs to start with. All I'm doing is trying to help realise that 1320 are not trying to push up costs for us. I'll PM you in a sec about something else.

I learnt so much about my car from it reminded me of watching my dad work on my cars (obviously Pauls younger tho lol). I'm a happy customer thats all, sorry if this causes a problem.

[Hyper Active]

Quote: Originally Posted by jaymanv4 (original)

Hi

Can anybody help? ??????

im looking to upgrade on my 2004 mini cooper s bhp to about 220 and was wondering which is a good reliable company to use.
I dont mine if i have to travel as long as they are a good.
Also could i get some feed back off you guys, who have already had upgrades done to there MCS and if they have had any problems.

Many Thanks Jayman

You haven't mentioned where abouts you live. As this would influence my decision as to who to go too.

[DaFlake]

Curious this thread popped up right after the bans... Usually people ask questions like..

What is a good mod to start with and such not who is the better tuner.

Something to think about folks...

[MINI-Morgan]

Lets keep it in prospective.... tuners fitting performance kits is their livelyhood. If they dont sell then they cease to exist. Also some tuners that might charge more will repair your engine for free if something goes wrong as we have seen. So if a tuner only makes £50 from fitting a pulley they are screwed and have no chance of doing any R&D work themselves with no money. You pay for a quality job and reassurance/warranty in some cases.

Now there are plenty more MINI tuners out there than those that can afford the crazy advertising price of Mini2 so its worth doing your research as there might just be the best one around just on your doorstep. And like has been already why save £50 on the job when its a 300mile round trip which will cost you a full tank of fuel so the same amount!

[jaymanv4]

in response to hyper active i live in gloucestershire, but as i said not to bothered on traveling as long as there are a good reliable tuning company.

[jaymanv4]

And in response to DAFLAKE, first time in using mini2 forums and was after advice from other people who have had mods already from these tuners.

Have done quite a bit of research, but in my opinion always better to here it from the horses mouth, and also did not no that the tuners had been banned.

[DaFlake]

Quote: Originally Posted by jaymanv4 (original)

And in response to DAFLAKE, first time in using mini2 forums and was after advice from other people who have had mods already from these tuners.

Have done quite a bit of research, but in my opinion always better to here it from the horses mouth, and also did not no that the tuners had been banned.

Fair enough...

Then the answer is simple. Any of our sponsors are reliable and good. GTT, 1320, Performance Torque can all help you.

What mods do you have already?

[Performance_Torque]

Interesting reading

As many have already mentioned, mapping on the Gen 1 Cooper S is mainly to ensure smoothness, and optimum throttle response as apposed to a big power hike.

Depending on what the customer wants in terms of performance and power, there are various mods that can be carried out.

15/17% Pulley, intercooler and exhaust are sensible mods to achieve healthy figures without breaking the bank.

A re-map on top ensures the best overall drivability.

I have full respect for any genuine tuner with knowledge and customer care, and certainly will not be arguing with any sponsors. We're all here because we love cars(and working on them)

[jaymanv4]

in reply to daflake ive had a re-map from 163 upto 180bhp with bbr/morego but i think i jumped in a bit quick in getting it done.
As i found out after looking a bit more they were a bit more expensive then other tuners and the fact they have been on TOP GEAR and seem to advertise in all the magazines i thought they would be a good choice.
In saying that bbr/morego did seem to know there stuff and have been round for a while and i have had no problems.
Thats why ive joined the mini2 forums so i can get a lot more knowledge off you guys so when i get some more mods done i can be more confident in making my mind up.
Ive always been into cars and have had some very nice ones but the mini has just got me and I LOVE IT such a great car with loads of potential without making it over the top.

[DaFlake]

Quote: Originally Posted by jaymanv4 (original)

in reply to daflake ive had a re-map from 163 upto 180bhp with bbr/morego but i think i jumped in a bit quick in getting it done.
As i found out after looking a bit more they were a bit more expensive then other tuners and the fact they have been on TOP GEAR and seem to advertise in all the magazines i thought they would be a good choice.
In saying that bbr/morego did seem to know there stuff and have been round for a while and i have had no problems.
Thats why ive joined the mini2 forums so i can get a lot more knowledge off you guys so when i get some more mods done i can be more confident in making my mind up.
Ive always been into cars and have had some very nice ones but the mini has just got me and I LOVE IT such a great car with loads of potential without making it over the top.

Sounds like you have done some research. That is good to see. A good place to start with the MINI is a pulley and plugs (most will agree with and it was mentioned above). Tunes are very tricky and raise a ton of "opinions" on the topic. The tune is for tying the mods together and as you will probably see a custom tune is probably the best method. I have MTH as there is nobody around that can do a custom tune. I think that tunes are necessary but there are many that are running without them. I think that they are losing power because of it.... My opinion...

After the pulley, you can move towards IC, head and exhaust.

As mentioned, GTT, 1320, Lohen and Performance Torque are all good people that will help you move in the right direction. I recommend that you call them and talk with them to see who works best with you....

[MINI-Morgan]

Quote: Originally Posted by jaymanv4 (original)

in reply to daflake ive had a re-map from 163 upto 180bhp with bbr/morego but i think i jumped in a bit quick in getting it done.
As i found out after looking a bit more they were a bit more expensive then other tuners and the fact they have been on TOP GEAR and seem to advertise in all the magazines i thought they would be a good choice.
In saying that bbr/morego did seem to know there stuff and have been round for a while and i have had no problems.
Thats why ive joined the mini2 forums so i can get a lot more knowledge off you guys so when i get some more mods done i can be more confident in making my mind up.
Ive always been into cars and have had some very nice ones but the mini has just got me and I LOVE IT such a great car with loads of potential without making it over the top.

Often the HP thats made by the claims of chip tuners is from raising rev limits Compare before and after dyno graphs.

Want a shock? Guess who BBR stole their ECU remaps from in the early days? Yep MTH in the very very early days. Shocking behavour! Guessing they have now changed to another companies maps.

Like DaFlake says get yourself a pulley and plugs on there and you'll see a big difference instantly through the whole rev range

[Silent1]

Providing an answer without getting into the constant *****ing that happens:

1320 autos
Lohen
GT Tuning

They all provide kit that works, they all provide fitting, they're all equally good. Go to the one nearest you and ignore all the crap by people claiming "xxxxx is god, all the others are crap"

[batou]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaFlake (original)

I think that tunes are necessary but there are many that are running without them. I think that they are losing power because of it.... My opinion...

Ahh you see it's down to how people look at them as part of the package. I've never seen a map as necessary unless the said car is running like a bag of crap or the fueling is wrong, I look at it like any other mod (bang for buck).

I think this is where a lot of the arguments about mods stem from, I'm a quite a cheap ass in someways. Don't get me wrong, I'll spend tonnes on the car to keep it in good shape and running perfect but for mods it's pure how much can I get for how little. I'm not the kind of person who's won over by little twiddly/shiny bits that do a little bit extra, bump up my costs but I don't really need, I want the basics that give me big wads of power that I can feel (I'm not looking for a page long mod list, just power and driveability).

Remaps being quite £££'s they are not first on my list but a possibility once I've finished the mods, as you said it's all about tying them together so from my perspective best to wait until I'm done.

That said Chris @1320 already has a copy of my current map "just in case" now they have the new custom mapping software, so your remap argument may yet win me over hehe

Like Silent1says you'll get equally as good service and power from all the Mini2 tuners regardless of all the crap thats going on atm. I think it depends more on your budget and location, at the end of the day people can only more highly recommend those they have used and had a good experience with.

[Performance_Torque]

Quote:

Like Silent1says you'll get equally as good service and power from all the Mini2 tuners regardless of all the crap thats going on atm

Hi

I have read a few members mentioning this, what exactly is going on?

[Jove]

Quote: Originally Posted by Performance_Torque (original)

Hi

I have read a few members mentioning this, what exactly is going on?

Tuner 'A' said theres was bigger than tuner 'B' . So 'B' asked for proof or STFU. Then Tuner 'A' wanted to sniff a customer of Tuner 'B'

Then it got really weired...

[Performance_Torque]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jove (original)

Tuner 'A' said theres was bigger than tuner 'B' . So 'B' asked for proof or STFU. Then Tuner 'A' wanted to sniff a customer of Tuner 'B'

Then it got really weired...

Ahhh, thanks for explaining.

Explained well too

[batou]

Basically everyone was at each others throats about who had the best stuff and false accusations were made, petrol sniffing arguments flared and the mods had no other option other than to ban them all for a few weeks to let it die down.

It could be sorted if everyone learned to ask themselves a few questions before posting.

If tuner "A/B" posts something about a product/event and tuner "B/A" wants to question it or make an accusation ...

1. Does the answer help Mini2 users?
2. Does tuner "A/B" have substantiated evidence that Mini2 Users will understand for an accusation?
3. If tuner "A/B" was asked the same question/accusation by another tuner would it not harm business in any small or large way?
4. Will the thread continue without an argument between users/tuners?

If any of those answers are FALSE then...

1. Bite your tongue (or keyboard for that matter).
2. Swallow you pride.
3. Step away from the keyboard.
4. Let the Mini2 users decide on the subject, not you.

If there is a genuine false statement made by a tuner in a post, don't respond to it. Report it.

Or... you could just use common sense.

[DaFlake]

Quote: Originally Posted by batou (original)

Ahh you see it's down to how people look at them as part of the package. I've never seen a map as necessary unless the said car is running like a bag of crap or the fueling is wrong, I look at it like any other mod (bang for buck).

I think this is where a lot of the arguments about mods stem from, I'm a quite a cheap ass in someways. Don't get me wrong, I'll spend tonnes on the car to keep it in good shape and running perfect but for mods it's pure how much can I get for how little. I'm not the kind of person who's won over by little twiddly/shiny bits that do a little bit extra, bump up my costs but I don't really need, I want the basics that give me big wads of power that I can feel (I'm not looking for a page long mod list, just power and driveability).

Remaps being quite £££'s they are not first on my list but a possibility once I've finished the mods, as you said it's all about tying them together so from my perspective best to wait until I'm done.

That said Chris @1320 already has a copy of my current map "just in case" now they have the new custom mapping software, so your remap argument may yet win me over hehe

Like Silent1says you'll get equally as good service and power from all the Mini2 tuners regardless of all the crap thats going on atm. I think it depends more on your budget and location, at the end of the day people can only more highly recommend those they have used and had a good experience with.

For me, I remember swapping my pulley (15%) and smelling fuel when I shut the car down. I have done more than a few pulleys now and many have had the same smell. Now, I know that I don't have the tools to monitor the A/F mixture, but from the days of old, the fuel smell meant the car was running rich. My remap (MTH) cured that and a few other things like DSC kicking in to fast. The car also "feels" like it has more torque in the lower end. Nope, no dyno but it did feel better after it was done and it was noticeable. Do I think that it was money well spent? Sure, but that is my opinion. I think that there are a lot of cars that are pushing the edge of the stock map to be honest and although it runs, it is probably not best in the long run. If you are getting a Jan remap, I think you wi