[alski]

Quote: Originally Posted by batou (original)

Thing is... if you get good service and results then your going to be biased towards them in that respect. Most people are biased towards their chosen gf's for pretty much the same reasons lol

although how much you pay them is not normally an issue

[batou]

Quote: Originally Posted by alski (original)

although how much you pay them is not normally an issue

ROFL!!!! Funny you should say that a few months back I left a tenner on the mrs's bedside knowing she didn't have any cash for dinner and left before she woke. Her work colleagues said she'd sold herself short lol . Cheeky bar stewards!

[DaFlake]

Quote: Originally Posted by batou (original)

Thing is... if you get good service and results then your going to be biased towards them in that respect. Most people are biased towards their chosen gf's for pretty much the same reasons lol

I have no problem with being biased towards them and to be honest I have no problems with BigShow's numbers and love for the vendors that helped get him there. What I have a problem with is that every time someone promotes a company that is outside of his belief, he takes the opportunity to try an bash them. That, in my opinion, is just wrong. There is nothing wrong with the work that Lohen, GTT or any others do. In fact, I remember Lohen stepping up to fix an engine that was destroyed after some work that was done on it proving that they have great customer service. I'm sure Roland would probably do the same.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but there is no need to be rude to others because you think you are right. There is no exact science in tuning and one size does not fit all...... What has worked for BS may not work for someone else nor may it apply. The idea is to keep all this in the middle of the road.

You have done a superb job of making your points without being over the top and rude and it is appreciated.

[Rigsey]

Over the last 4 years of MCS ownership I’ve dealt with several MINI tuners/parts suppliers, here is a quick summary (all IMO).

BBR (Hood Scoop) – OK, not overly friendly or helpful, would not use again.

GRS (IC) – Great product (IC is a work of art), Graham is a very nice bloke who is extremely helpful, knowledgeable and friendly, would go back and recommend.

GTT (Various performance mods + braces) – Roland is very knowledgeable and his products do perform well on my car, engineering skills + workmanship are first rate, would go back.

Lohen (OMP Strut brace) – very helpful, seem to know their stuff, would use again.

MODNMINI (JCW brakes) – very knowledgeable and open, true enthusiasts, very friendly, will be going back (especially as they are 10 minutes from my home)

1320 (Rolling Road day) – briefly chatted to Paul and Chris, know there stuff, would go back/recommend.

In summary, as other people have mentioned, I’d speak to each tuner in person – your about to potentially spend a lot of money so make sure your happy with your choice …

[batou]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaFlake (original)

In fact, I remember Lohen stepping up to fix an engine that was destroyed after some work that was done on it proving that they have great customer service. I'm sure Roland would probably do the same.

Very good point!!!! I remember that too and that was really, really harsh and unfair on Lohen and they pretty much had no other choice other than to put it right at their expense.

No tuner can be responsible for a tuned car that either hasn't been maintained properly (was running 95 ron fuel) and driven without mechanical sympathy at the time (using WOT in high gears on low grade fuel). It think that was the unlucky event of the generic Bluefin map not having enough headroom for low grade fuel and unsympathetic driving styles. All they did was fit what the customer asked for.

People are so quick to point the finger when something goes wrong but not enough people praise when things go right. A user could go to a tuner have a pulley fitted and weeks later have a cracked head which would have probably happened anyway it could have been any tuner but most on the forum will soon rip that tuner to shreds for it!

I'm sick of the internet-willy swinging going on here, it would be far easier if we could post our experiences and results (both good and bad) without a customer/mini2 user being accused being an advert for a tuner, using race fuel to get better results or being asked to travel to an independent rolling road (not only at our cost but to have our car thrashed by a non mini specialist with no temperature checking or a fans that have been tested to replicate the specific conditions of how the unique mini cools the car on the road),

Also I'm sick of tuners/users throwing the reliability card at other tuners too it's a 1.6 tuned to 100hp/liter to start with! Scaremongering us about failed oil pumps, head-gaskets, plugs or what ever else that can go wrong. It's not a tuners fault its that fact we want to push our cars well beyond what they were designed for, we know the risks and thanks for making us aware of them but stop using it to put a tuner down (why not just share the info with the tuner??) .

We take off crank vibration dampers and fit light alloy pulleys with no damping.... did it ever occur to us that BMW fitted a damper for a reason, maybe to stop the vibration reaching the oil pump housing and causing premature failure??

We fit pulleys spinning the charger faster and increasing heat in the cylinders burning plugs, (it's not deso/ngk's fault!), damaging heads/gaskets....we run higher boost than the challenge race cars and on our sometimes standard heads!!.

We remap BMW's extensively researched and developed software to squeeze that extra bit of power we want and to get our power curve and delivery just right... it's not the tuners fault that some will end up stuck in a traffic jam in a heatwave and minutes later give it WOT abuse on a standard inter cooler not up to the job and the previous sympathetic rich mixture is now a little too lean for the conditions.

I could go on... if we ALL post our experiences both good and bad without pointing fingers or throwing childish accusations the forum will be a better place. World peace is a lot to ask for, but is it on a internet site where we all have something in common???

[DaFlake]

Brilliant post mate!

[Bhozar]

Spot on Batou.

We do all this tuning and it removed the carefully engineers saftey margins put ito place by BMW or JCW, then we moan if it goes wrong.

If my 58k mile engine goes pop, I'll swap it out for another engine and scavenge the parts available. Its the risk I take for having higher HP. Things can go wrong, and do. I have had several aftermarket parts fail, and luckily the vendors have sorted it each time.

I have had parts fitted to my car by John Cooper Garages (JCW kit #5), GTT (JCW upgrade kit), Lohen (engine and gearbox mounts), 1320 (front bushings and thermostat). On top of that I have fitted many parts myself, such as the GTT manifold, GRS intercooler, and Porsche brakes.

I have found the service by all the companies involved to be excelent. The products have been excelent, and when there has been a problem, the support has been excelent again. Even when the part in question that went wrong was second-hand!

I'll be going on a RR up in Birmingham next week. First time on a RR in 2 years of ownership as it really doesnt bother me what power I have.

[BigShow]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaFlake (original)

I have no problem with being biased towards them and to be honest I have no problems with BigShow's numbers and love for the vendors that helped get him there. What I have a problem with is that every time someone promotes a company that is outside of his belief, he takes the opportunity to try an bash them. That, in my opinion, is just wrong. There is nothing wrong with the work that Lohen, GTT or any others do. In fact, I remember Lohen stepping up to fix an engine that was destroyed after some work that was done on it proving that they have great customer service. I'm sure Roland would probably do the same.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but there is no need to be rude to others because you think you are right. There is no exact science in tuning and one size does not fit all...... What has worked for BS may not work for someone else nor may it apply. The idea is to keep all this in the middle of the road.

You have done a superb job of making your points without being over the top and rude and it is appreciated.

I don't ever remember bashing someone for promoting a company that is outside my belief? Any time someone made numbers I've congratulated them or if the numbers were lower than they expected I've offered advice as to why that might be from what I've learnt so far, no matter where they wnet.

I have however bashed Roland before for attacking my results and I've bashed him for attacking Lohen for blowing an engine because IMO I think he acts like a school yard bully sometimes. In fact most of the times I've had red mist on the forum its because of Roland accusing me of falsifying my results when each time and at each stage I have proved how I got them and backed them up with dyno figures and performance figures. So naturally when he attacks me I attack him back and turn the tables on him by asking the same sort of questions he asks me but I get nothing back but words without substance or fact. One thing then leads to another and we all get banned

I have publically praised Roland for creating the 300T and I've even called it the ultimate road/track Mini so it’s not that I am constantly knocking him. I just retaliate when provoked, always have and always will whether on the forum or in person. But that’s enough said on that.

Daflake I have nothing against you personally but I do find it odd that you defend /promote/attack tuners, more recently 1320 when, and correct me if I'm wrong, you have no personal experience of having any UK tuner work on your car. I only promote 1320 and Lohen because I have used them and I have documented what they have done be it right or wrong. If people choose to listen to that and then use said tuner, that doesn’t make them lemmings as you called them.

If someone wanted to make a carbon copy of the mods on my car to hit 280 + bhp, I'm confident they could as long as their car was healthy to begin with. That doesn't mean they have to go to 1320 to get those multitude of parts fitted (custom remap excluded), they can go anywhere or even do it themselves if they have the skills.

The key is what components make power on a R53 Cooper S? Well I think most of us know that now and that’s thanks to people on this forum proving it and sharing their stories along the way. I don’t care who people use to fit those parts, just that they don’t waste the money that I and others have previously on parts that don't make power otherwise what's the point in us spending time and money to show what's been achieved? And it’s for this reason that JAYMAN (and others) will be able to get it right first time, wherever he goes for fitting if he IMO:

1. Health checks the engine
2. Finds out what power it is making first then
3. Spins the supercharger faster
4. Cools the inlet temps better
5. Gets rid of the hot gasses quicker
6. Then measures the power again

IMO it is that simple engine wise. Get more cold air and fuel in the engine quicker and hot gasses out faster.

Anyway let's end this bickering now and move forward.

[BigShow]

Quote: Originally Posted by batou (original)

Very good point!!!! I remember that too and that was really, really harsh and unfair on Lohen and they pretty much had no other choice other than to put it right at their expense.

No tuner can be responsible for a tuned car that either hasn't been maintained properly (was running 95 ron fuel) and driven without mechanical sympathy at the time (using WOT in high gears on low grade fuel). It think that was the unlucky event of the generic Bluefin map not having enough headroom for low grade fuel and unsympathetic driving styles. All they did was fit what the customer asked for.

People are so quick to point the finger when something goes wrong but not enough people praise when things go right. A user could go to a tuner have a pulley fitted and weeks later have a cracked head which would have probably happened anyway it could have been any tuner but most on the forum will soon rip that tuner to shreds for it!

I'm sick of the internet-willy swinging going on here, it would be far easier if we could post our experiences and results (both good and bad) without a customer/mini2 user being accused being an advert for a tuner, using race fuel to get better results or being asked to travel to an independent rolling road (not only at our cost but to have our car thrashed by a non mini specialist with no temperature checking or a fans that have been tested to replicate the specific conditions of how the unique mini cools the car on the road),

Also I'm sick of tuners/users throwing the reliability card at other tuners too it's a 1.6 tuned to 100hp/liter to start with! Scaremongering us about failed oil pumps, head-gaskets, plugs or what ever else that can go wrong. It's not a tuners fault its that fact we want to push our cars well beyond what they were designed for, we know the risks and thanks for making us aware of them but stop using it to put a tuner down (why not just share the info with the tuner??) .

We take off crank vibration dampers off and fit light alloy pulleys with no damping.... did it ever occur to us that BMW fitted a damper for a reason, maybe to stop the vibration reaching the oil pump housing and causing premature failure??

We fit pulleys spinning the charger faster and increasing heat in the cylinders burning plugs, (it's not deso/ngk's fault!), damaging heads/gaskets....we run higher boost than the challenge race cars and on our sometimes standard heads!!.

We remap BMW's extensively researched and developed software to squeeze that extra bit of power we want and to get our power curve and delivery just right... it's not the tuners fault that some will end up stuck in a traffic jam in a heatwave and minutes later give it WOT abuse on a standard inter cooler not up to the job and the previous sympathetic rich mixture is now a little too lean for the conditions.

I could go on... if we ALL post our experiences both good and bad without pointing fingers or throwing childish accusations the forum will be a better place. World peace is a lot to ask for, but is it on a internet site where we all have something in common???

I defo couldn't have put it better myself..!!!! Genius. That's the best post I've read on Mini2 yet.

[DaFlake]

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow (original)

The key is what components make power on a R53 Cooper S? Well I think most of us know that now and that’s thanks to people on this forum proving it and sharing their stories along the way. I don’t care who people use to fit those parts, just that they don’t waste the money that I and others have previously on parts that don't make power otherwise what's the point in us spending time and money to show what's been achieved? And it’s for this reason that JAYMAN (and others) will be able to get it right first time, wherever he goes for fitting if he IMO:

1. Health checks the engine
2. Finds out what power it is making first then
3. Spins the supercharger faster
4. Cools the inlet temps better
5. Gets rid of the hot gasses quicker
6. Then measures the power again

IMO it is that simple engine wise. Get more cold air and fuel in the engine quicker and hot gasses out faster.

Anyway let's end this bickering now and move forward.

BigShow, then you and I agree to disagree and there is nothing wrong with that. Let's just leave it at that.

What you posted above is probably the BEST advice I have seen posted yet. Well said.

[Perm]

……and so it was that calm and tranquillity was once again restored to the world……

Perm