[BigShow300]

I'd like to understand exactly which individual performance parts have actually been proven to make BHP/Torque on the MCS. To do so however it is reliant upon you guys filling in the gaps as this will help current and future owners to see real world gains in performance parts rather than 'marketing' gains.

I'll start the ball rolling for the parts I have tested on my car on the dyno (note: these were not on a stock car):

Alta V2 CAI - lost 1 bhp
Janspeed De-cat pipe - 0 bhp gain/loss
Milltek Cat Back - 10 bhp gain
Superchips Remap - 3 bhp gain (due to increased rev limit, lost everywhere else compared to stock map)

[Paul]

Doesn't not being on a stock car undermine the issue somewhat and highlight a problem with this sort of "proven" list?

You can't say that an Alta CAI will have the same effect on a standard car. Plus what kind of super accurate rolling road can really verify 1hp either way?

I like the idea of a list like this, but it's not a "proven" list really is it, it's a "share your experiences" list, which could, if enough people contribute, help build up a clearer picture.

[1320autos]

Yeah you're right Paul the Milltek Cat back did make 10bhp difference but that was at 280, it might make only 2bhp or even loose power on a stock car.

Then you get some real freaks of nature like Alski's, I know Jan has found some freaks on his tuning tour around the states.

Even Bhozars back to back cam test is the highest we've ever seen for that cam, we usually see 8-12 gain on a stock head though Bhozar's is a JCW head.

[GTT 280]

i thought the s charger pulley gave the most noticeable power hike?

[roland2003]

Rather than say Alskis car is a 'freak of nature' because it wasnt your parts , it should be credited as an excellent conversion proven on reliability and power.....it was a GTT220 with GTT Intercooler yet produced over 243bhp (on your RR) ,... why not add to to the list of proven products on this list?
This forum is becoming very biased and corrupt in its postings.
Regarding cam fitment gaining 20bhp, two things worth noting
1) Its very easy to unknowingly sort another problem such as a boost leak in the process of removal/refitting intercooler etc then credit all the gain to the new item fitted....this has been talked about before and shouldnt be ruled out.
2) Power gains of individual products are not usually additive. eg if a cam gives 20bhp and a head 20bhp individually then together dont expect 40bhp...

[batou]

It's too hard to do this, i actually agree with point 1 of Roland's, i think I may have had missing power from my pulley change at minispeed... when we had the sparks out last they weren't tightened up correctly so could have lost compression/bhp.

The GTT220 is just an ecu remap, iridium sparkplugs, pulley and CAI so with just a intercooler on top 243 is really, really good (jealous much!!!! ). Shame theres no butt dyno to see what it was before the conversion considering some engines as stock vary a lot, sounds like the engine is really healthy to me.

edit... sorry theres the "optimised bypass valve" and "idle pulley thing". What size sc pulley is it?

[feenaldo]

Roland makes a good point here.

Even more true about different combinations of parts working together in different ways.

Proof of something for me comes from the fact that II have yet to see a GTT conversion that didn't do exactly what it said on the tin, and in most cases more I'm sure this could be said of other packages from other places... but for me GTT is what everbody I'n my club has.. that and Roland is so very close to us all on the south coast!

I think unless you have the sort of disposable technology of NASA to throw at such a project and a couple of months on the ring and stuff to test all these set ups and everything nothing will ever be "proven" so to speak.

I wonder if anybody has tried to sue Alta in the US for their BHP "proven" gain for their Air Filter if they haven't got the power advertised.... probably not since there are so many variables to testing something like that it doesn't even bear thinking about.

I think I will leave the BHP to my Caterham and get my kicks and big grins from going round some country lanes in my MINI rather than framing a till receipt from the pod

[BigShow300]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul (original)

Doesn't not being on a stock car undermine the issue somewhat and highlight a problem with this sort of "proven" list?

You can't say that an Alta CAI will have the same effect on a standard car. Plus what kind of super accurate rolling road can really verify 1hp either way?

I like the idea of a list like this, but it's not a "proven" list really is it, it's a "share your experiences" list, which could, if enough people contribute, help build up a clearer picture.

Fair point regarding 'proven' what I meant by that is proven via a dyno rather than 'it felt much faster/slower'

We are never going to be able to see gains/losses on a stock car with each part but if someone adds say a milltek at one stage of tuning and another person adds a milltek at a further stage of tuning and both gain power, say 1bhp in one application and 10 bhp in another, then at least we can label that product after enough people list it as a product that gains.

The reason I want individual parts Roland is becasue not everyone can afford a package conversion. I think we're all in agreement that if you want a quick power hike a smaller S/C pulley is what should be first on the list, but fitting a Alta, GTT, Works CAI is something a new MCS owner can do at home and its fro this reason that I would like to see what people have found gains or loses horsepower on a part rathe than a package.

Please can we get the thread back on topic and continune with the list so we can 'share experience' of products purchased.

[Snowie]

Hi Guys

This area is a really difficult one and things sometimes work in combination and some times do not.

When I started to tune my GP I was looking for similar types of data and could not find anything definitive especially as I wanted to remain with as stock as possible from a visible point of view under the bonnet.

So I created my own performance and mod history and shared it with you all here http://www.mini2.com/forum/john-coop...gp-tuning.html

Not everything gave what it 'said on the tin' right down to the basic car. However it has all been proven on an independent Rolling Road (SRR) at my expense.

Small gains are impossible to prove - anyone who has been on a RR will see that you can do 3 or 4 runs straight after each other and there will be 1 to 3 BHP difference. It is not allways the last one that is the lowest, you would think the last one would be lower due to heat sock and ignition retarding to protect the motor.

I wish more people would spend the time and money to give proven independent results.

Facts are worth a million marketing words.

Also remember peak numbers are not the whole story - yes they are great bragging numbers, but the area under the whole curve, the torque numbers and spread of torque are key.

When I look at power numbers and Dyno graphs I allways compare the peak number back to stock RPM limit so I can get a clear comparison without the increased rev limit that many re-maps are giving.

Also a car is only as fast and as safe as the driver.

Just my opinion guys

[1320autos]

Roland the freak of nature bit was referred to as a 17 % and a IC which made 242 we have seen quite a few now with various combos off tuner's parts that dont match Alski numbers, but the question is why??

I'd personally rather quote miniums because each car is a typical Mini, individual in its own right.

I was really pleased for Alski and a GTT car hit good numbers on the dyno, because it shows how we dont fudge figures because we cant and there's no point.

So for an example with a 15% / 17% a IC and a CAI we have seen anything fom 196 -242 but generally see them in the low to mid 220s.

With stock cars we have seen differences of 20 horsepower.

[BigShow300]

Quote: Originally Posted by feenaldo (original)

I think I will leave the BHP to my Caterham and get my kicks and big grins from going round some country lanes in my MINI rather than framing a till receipt from the pod

Nice dig there. Maybe rather than country lanes you should try the track so you don't become another road death stat.

[sef]

In order of fitment...

Standard Facelift MCS...

Dynoed as Standard and got 193bhp

Borla Racecat back - gained 1bhp

Alta V2 15% pulley and belt - gained 20bhp - Dynoed at 214bhp

GRS Intercooler and Janspeed Manifold fitted

Dynoed at 197whp and 232bhp



http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...F_GRAPH001.jpg

Fitted the GTT CAI and it didn't gain anything.
Graph below shows a dyno plot with standard airbox with a dyno plot with the CAI overlayed.



http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...RAPH2001-1.jpg

As mentioned above... This is just what happened with my car... Others will be different...

[BigShow300]

Quote: Originally Posted by sef (original)

In order of fitment...

Standard Facelift MCS...

Dynoed as Standard and got 193bhp

Borla Racecat back - gained 1bhp

Alta V2 15% pulley and belt - gained 20bhp - Dynoed at 214bhp

GRS Intercooler and Janspeed Manifold fitted

Dynoed at 197whp and 232bhp



http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...F_GRAPH001.jpg

Fitted the GTT CAI and it didn't gain anything.
Graph below shows a dyno plot with standard airbox with a dyno plot with the CAI overlayed.



http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...RAPH2001-1.jpg

As mentioned above... This is just what happened with my car... Others will be different...

Perfect, this is exactly what I'm looking for and I hope what new people to this forum will be looking for too... cold hard facts about what worked on your car.

[feenaldo]

Cool results Sef. Was that with standard Air feed too?

[sef]

Yes it was... Standard airbox and feed.

[feenaldo]

Thats cool. I think my car runs better with normal airbox and pannel filter than it does with an ALTA on it. I need to go check this out more now rather than take the 10bhp gain figure for granted which I think is the whole reason why Big Show has started this thread.... it could make some good reading for times to come.

[Lucky Dave]

There are two was to measure this.

Either with a full speced up motor and then downgrade it by removing single parts and record the losses
OR

Take a totaly stock car and add one part only then record the gains.

To make the results worth anything each part would then have to be removed and the car back to stock each time.

Its a mine field and as most of us know, tuning starts with just a pulley and airbox, but we know sooner or later we all will have the lot!

Its the consumers choice, not for us to decide what they buy.

And yes I would say this looks like another poke at the folks who dont choose to Dyno there cars.

Making the decision is all part of the fun, myself I always like the route less traveled.

[batou]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lucky Dave (original)

And yes I would say this looks like another poke at the folks who dont choose to Dyno there cars.

Making the decision is all part of the fun, myself I always like the route less traveled.

I think your missing the point mate. This thread (and I'm guessing here) was probably started for those who haven't got the cash, or want to do things a step at a time... rather than the traditional "more traveled" way of .... "that tin has 220 on it, I'll have one of those thanks".

If people would simply post their results from different parts its one way of seeing what works together, or what parts work good on top of others. I whole-heartedly agree that its too hard to find out exactly how each individual part works on a stock car. But this way users can pick and choose exactly what they want without all the crap, marketing led shiny bits that when put to the test, make a choccy teapot seem useful!

My car was put together from recommendations from tuners and users along with a few personal touches, it worked, very well as so as long as it's kept informative and we all have something to refer to it is a good idea... albeit a very difficult one.

Once my car is in a consistent state I may be able to add something to this lol

[Lucky Dave]

How can I be missing the point if your only guessing what the point of the thread is?

Parts fitted to car X may not give the same results as car Y.

[batou]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lucky Dave (original)

How can I be missing the point if your only guessing what the point of the thread is?

Parts fitted to car X may not give the same results as car Y.

Fair enough, if were being pedantic but I read...

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow300 (original)

The reason I want individual parts Roland is becasue not everyone can afford a package conversion. I think we're all in agreement that if you want a quick power hike a smaller S/C pulley is what should be first on the list, but fitting a Alta, GTT, Works CAI is something a new MCS owner can do at home and its fro this reason that I would like to see what people have found gains or loses horsepower on a part rathe than a package.

... so ok, maybe I wasn't really guessing On with the results...