[MINI-Morgan]

Well most regulars on here should be able to tell you 1-7 in less than a minute Problem is some of the tuners have had problems with other ones so they will be bias. Glad a couple arent

[Bhozar]

Interesting reading.

[blaze6]

Quote: Originally Posted by MINI-Morgan (original)

Well most regulars on here should be able to tell you 1-7 in less than a minute Problem is some of the tuners have had problems with other ones so they will be bias. Glad a couple arent

...

[Bhozar]

Quote: Originally Posted by sayanthan (original)

that's what i was wondering about - is it safe to combine coolant/waterwetter/water? does this negate the effect of water wetter?

After doing a lot of research on the net, I decided it was a bonus to add it to the coolant.

[k-huevo]

There is nothing inherently dangerous about the small pulley as long as accommodations are made and intended use is appropriate; make the best of what you have. As I said previously, I’ve experienced much higher IAT on a dyno and still had a healthy increase over baseline. Now you have a baseline, go for improvement over your previous results and avoid getting hung up on other’s numbers. Continue to utilize the dyno where your baseline was recorded because deltas are all that matter.

I’ve logged many engine parameters over a few years & 35k miles, in a variety of operating environments, with a 19%; there was never a definitive IAT threshold for knock and timing alteration. Knock/ping can be triggered by engine component noise without being heat related, knock is more likely to be affected by fuel quality/quantity and/or load than a specific temp. Yes, conditions can be interrelated, but don’t place the blame solely on IAT. Be sure the injectors you have are properly scaled in your ECU’s program and functioning optimally. If you’re on a budget, have your current injectors reconditioned professionally to see if they are healthy before stepping up to larger injectors.

Keep your current intercooler; do try to direct fan air on it while on the dyno.

So far nothing has been said about your exhaust system. If you have a ported head and an OEM header, there is a good chance of a negative mismatch. Some aftermarket header flange ports can be improved upon as well. Unbolt the header, look at the header gasket and exhaust ports to be sure the gasket ports are not smaller than the head’s ports, place the gasket against the exhaust flange and compare with what you saw on the head, if there is more flange material showing, that is a poor match. The OEM flange ports can be taken out to the outline of the gasket without compromising primary welds. Flow also can be improved by deleting the pre-cat; those modifications combined with an OEM resonator delete are a good way to start addressing higher than normal boost readings. The flanges between the OEM header and cat-back are other potential flow reducers, there is an internal weld bead on the header reducing ID by an eighth inch, there’s a transition section on the cat-back’s flange which reduces ID by almost a quarter inch.

Address the hardware deficiencies before tackling the tune.

Sayanthan, your 1-7 tuner post is counterproductive.

[blaze6]

Quote: Originally Posted by k-huevo (original)

There is nothing inherently dangerous about the small pulley as long as accommodations are made and intended use is appropriate; make the best of what you have. As I said previously, I’ve experienced much higher IAT on a dyno and still had a healthy increase over baseline. Now you have a baseline, go for improvement over your previous results and avoid getting hung up on other’s numbers. Continue to utilize the dyno where your baseline was recorded because deltas are all that matter.

I’ve logged many engine parameters over a few years & 35k miles, in a variety of operating environments, with a 19%; there was never a definitive IAT threshold for knock and timing alteration. Knock/ping can be triggered by engine component noise without being heat related, knock is more likely to be affected by fuel quality/quantity and/or load than a specific temp. Yes, conditions can be interrelated, but don’t place the blame solely on IAT. Be sure the injectors you have are properly scaled in your ECU’s program and functioning optimally. If you’re on a budget, have your current injectors reconditioned professionally to see if they are healthy before stepping up to larger injectors.

Keep your current intercooler; do try to direct fan air on it while on the dyno.

So far nothing has been said about your exhaust system. If you have a ported head and an OEM header, there is a good chance of a negative mismatch. Some aftermarket header flange ports can be improved upon as well. Unbolt the header, look at the header gasket and exhaust ports to be sure the gasket ports are not smaller than the head’s ports, place the gasket against the exhaust flange and compare with what you saw on the head, if there is more flange material showing, that is a poor match. The OEM flange ports can be taken out to the outline of the gasket without compromising primary welds. Flow also can be improved by deleting the pre-cat; those modifications combined with an OEM resonator delete are a good way to start addressing higher than normal boost readings. The flanges between the OEM header and cat-back are other potential flow reducers, there is an internal weld bead on the header reducing ID by an eighth inch, there’s a transition section on the cat-back’s flange which reduces ID by almost a quarter inch.

Address the hardware deficiencies before tackling the tune.

Sayanthan, your 1-7 tuner post is counterproductive.

the thing's you've mentioned have or are being looked at, thankyou for your comments.
the car has a miltek manifold and catback and the exhaust has been inspected - the front silencer's being replaced. the fuel map is being looked at to check my jcw injectors are being utilised appropriately.
as for your opinion regarding posting about tuners 1-7, if you were a UK mini owner which you are not, you would want to know some of the things in my post, as people are effectively buying some products misinformed and additionally, like any other aspect of life, you will be judged and compared - posting about your experiences are what this post is all about. it's worth bearing in mind i was asked by several people to post this, tuners and non tuners!
your view on IATs is not reflected by a lot of people. i would want more than 35000 miles from a conversion and hope you have many more.

[blaze6]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bhozar (original)

After doing a lot of research on the net, I decided it was a bonus to add it to the coolant.

i'll ask adam and see what he thinks, i don't want to do a fluid change twice a year so reducing the coolant and having waterwetter makes sense.

[blaze6]

UPDATE:
another chat with neil from BBR today - he's now said that fitting the jcw airbox since the remap (versus stock airbox with K&N panel filters) is flowing more air and causing the car to go lean - ?is this enough to cause the car fuelling to lean out that badly? he suspects i'll need a remap and has agreed to trial the car with a stock airbox versus jcw and check the AFRs. do most people retune their car as a priority if they've fitted a jcw airbox then??

the other minor bits and bobs will be finished on the car hopefully by the end of this week. so i guess i will need to go to BBR for him to do this, i should give him the benefit of the doubt? not sure this completely explained the IATs though??

[batou]

I really don't think the cause is the JCW airbox, it sounds like an excuse. The problem as you already know is the inlet temperatures are too high and the injectors can't cope.

[Perm]

Quote: Originally Posted by sayanthan (original)

UPDATE:
another chat with neil from BBR today - he's now said that fitting the jcw airbox since the remap (versus stock airbox with K&N panel filters) is flowing more air and causing the car to go lean - ?is this enough to cause the car fuelling to lean out that badly? he suspects i'll need a remap and has agreed to trial the car with a stock airbox versus jcw and check the AFRs. do most people retune their car as a priority if they've fitted a jcw airbox then??

the other minor bits and bobs will be finished on the car hopefully by the end of this week. so i guess i will need to go to BBR for him to do this, i should give him the benefit of the doubt? not sure this completely explained the IATs though??

If it was me I would use BBR but ask them to record their own set of data from the car such as IAT and Air to Fuel measurments as the car is now and then get them to re-run the tests with the panel air filter. Clearly they would need to capture the data on the road as they do like rolling roads. ;->

If the air filter change does not fix the problem then at least they will be able to diagnose if their is an inherent problem with their conversion.

Was the first time you noticed problems with the car post fitting the JCW air filter ?


Perm

[MINIMANIAUK]

Air filters do not flow air per se - the charger sucks air through the filter the more restrictive the filter the greater the vacuum pre charger -the charger still sucks the same amount of air regardless it simply uses more power to suck -if that makes sense
Your high IATs are caused by either a poor charger with wide clearances ,a restiction in flow -head-manifold-cat -exhaust and the use of a very small pulley or the temp sensor that gives the information of temp is banjaxxed (tech term for broken)
IMHO all the reduced pulleys create wear in the charger the smaller ,the faster the rpm of the charger and the greater heat -the heat expands the rotors and case and in particular the faces of the rotor at the outlet side which see the most heat ,this may go some way to explaining why 19% pulleys can cover such mileage without terminal failure -they wear the clearances to the point they alter boost and flow and temp and ultimately performance
With 15% pulleys making 270bhp and over 200ft lbs torque I dont see the real benefit of using smaller-- 5 ft lbs to 5000rpm?

[blaze6]

Quote: Originally Posted by Perm (original)

Was the first time you noticed problems with the car post fitting the JCW air filter ?


Perm

no it wasn't - filter only fitted 2-3/52 ago

[blaze6]

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMANIAUK (original)

Air filters do not flow air per se - the charger sucks air through the filter the more restrictive the filter the greater the vacuum pre charger -the charger still sucks the same amount of air regardless it simply uses more power to suck -if that makes sense
Your high IATs are caused by either a poor charger with wide clearances ,a restiction in flow -head-manifold-cat -exhaust and the use of a very small pulley or the temp sensor that gives the information of temp is banjaxxed (tech term for broken)
IMHO all the reduced pulleys create wear in the charger the smaller ,the faster the rpm of the charger and the greater heat -the heat expands the rotors and case and in particular the faces of the rotor at the outlet side which see the most heat ,this may go some way to explaining why 19% pulleys can cover such mileage without terminal failure -they wear the clearances to the point they alter boost and flow and temp and ultimately performance
With 15% pulleys making 270bhp and over 200ft lbs torque I dont see the real benefit of using smaller-- 5 ft lbs to 5000rpm?

okay, if i'm getting lots of boost then ?charger is still working okay?

[Revolution Mini Works]

Quote: Originally Posted by sayanthan (original)

okay, if i'm getting lots of boost then ?charger is still working okay?

what he is trying to tell you is that if you are running 19lbs of boost in this heat, you have a restriction behind the cylinder head. There is no way you are running 19lbs of boost with a good ported head especially in this heat

[blaze6]

Quote: Originally Posted by Revolution Mini Works (original)

what he is trying to tell you is that if you are running 19lbs of boost in this heat, you have a restriction behind the cylinder head. There is no way you are running 19lbs of boost with a good ported head especially in this heat

....so the header needs to be looked at? thought i just needed a tune!

[Revolution Mini Works]

Quote: Originally Posted by sayanthan (original)

....so the header needs to be looked at? thought i just needed a tune!

you won't believe how many cars I find problems on while tuning.......

most are overlooked by others because they believe "high boost is good"

it's knowing how parts work together and what you should expect out of the car given certain temp/rpm etc conditions to know if your car is out of spec

you have some form of exhaust restriction whether it's a bad cat or mufflers for it to be that high of boost. I have fixed multiple cars with the same type of problems and it's always behind the cylinder head. What exhaust manifold are you running? Does it match your ports?

another problem I see on the forums is a person trying to get info from everyone on the forum instead of taking it to someone who knows how to fix the car. You being a doctor.... do you post on an internet forum hoping someone will diagnose your appendix without actually seeing you in person to make sure it isn't just a bad case of gas?

[blaze6]

Quote: Originally Posted by Revolution Mini Works (original)

you won't believe how many cars I find problems on while tuning.......

most are overlooked by others because they believe "high boost is good"

it's knowing how parts work together and what you should expect out of the car given certain temp/rpm etc conditions to know if your car is out of spec

you have some form of exhaust restriction whether it's a bad cat or mufflers for it to be that high of boost. I have fixed multiple cars with the same type of problems and it's always behind the cylinder head. What exhaust manifold are you running? Does it match your ports?

another problem I see on the forums is a person trying to get info from everyone on the forum instead of taking it to someone who knows how to fix the car. You being a doctor.... do you post on an internet forum hoping someone will diagnose your appendix without actually seeing you in person to make sure it isn't just a bad case of gas?

the exhaust system is a miltek manifold and cat back - i assume it matches my ports?...the car's with 1320 and they've inspected the exhaust system and the front silencer was replaced as it was rattling...-when they did this, boost actually increased?? they didn't comment on the manifold, i assume they looked at it.

i'm a naturally inquisitive and impatient person (i do a lot of accident and emergency work so the idea of just waiting for answers is kinda hard, i like results and answers as of yesterday...) hence i often go on forums asking questions.....that's just me.

[Revolution Mini Works]

Quote: Originally Posted by sayanthan (original)

the exhaust system is a miltek manifold and cat back - i assume it matches my ports?...the car's with 1320 and they've inspected the exhaust system and the front silencer was replaced as it was rattling...-when they did this, boost actually increased?? they didn't comment on the manifold, i assume they looked at it.

i'm a naturally inquisitive and impatient person (i do a lot of accident and emergency work so the idea of just waiting for answers is kinda hard, i like results and answers as of yesterday...) hence i often go on forums asking questions.....that's just me.

as the old saying goes.... hard to bake a really good cake with 5 chefs in the kitchen working on the same cake as each has his own way of baking....

[blaze6]

Quote: Originally Posted by Revolution Mini Works (original)

as the old saying goes.... hard to bake a really good cake with 5 chefs in the kitchen working on the same cake as each has his own way of baking....

yeh,...we call it too many cooks....the car is with just the one cook......no harm in getting different opinions when deciding what to do....one of 1320auto's recommendations was to switch to a 17% which i don't want to do, this is what triggered me canvassing opinions as i'd like to find a way to keep it - i want to keep the 19% pulley.

[Revolution Mini Works]

Quote: Originally Posted by sayanthan (original)

yeh,...we call it too many cooks....the car is with just the one cook......no harm in getting different opinions when deciding what to do....one of 1320auto's recommendations was to switch to a 17% which i don't want to do, this is what triggered me canvassing opinions as i'd like to find a way to keep it - i want to keep the 19% pulley.

it's in your right but what you are really doing is undermining the people trying to help you