[monsta]

Just got an email from www.grahamgoode.com

200 BHP MINI COOPER S
GGR have now developed a conversion for the COOPER S raising the power from 161BHP in standard form to just over 200 BHP!
Maximum torque has also been increased by over 35 LB/FT and more significantly, this is produced 500 RPM lower in the power band at 3565RPM.
The conversion consists of a reprogrammed engine management system and modification of the supercharger transmission ratio.
This conversion transforms the way the car performs, with improved throttle response and power throughout the rev range.

£999.00 + vat fully fitted


Nice Visit http://www.grahamgoode.com/mini/index.htm for more info

[BruceK]

Quote:

Originally posted by monsta
..GGR have now developed a conversion for the COOPER S raising the power from 161BHP in standard form to just over 200 BHP!....

If they can't get the starting horsepower right, should we trust the accuracy of the end result?

Per MINI, a Cooper S has 163 hp.


(Hey, every horse counts)

[Loui]

I heard Graham Goode were suposed to be working on a 250bhp conversion for the cooper S as well i dont know how true this is but it could be interesting.

[minimini36]

BruceK

I have seen multiple other references to 161 hp for an MCS. These have included several articles in magazines. It may be 163 for US versions and a different value in other countries. This tuner appears to be in the UK. Also other countries specify the power in KW not Hp and there may be a small error in the conversion factor used. It is possible that the pre-production number released may have been 161.

[Paul]

Just to clarify, BHP has always been given as 163 by BMW/MINI.

[Grinder]

They say that they rework the supercharger transmition ratio, which i assume means a new pulley. I remember reading somewhere on here before that the supercharger is *already* "redlining", but i cant find that forum/post. Anyone know about this? Could their 200 HP conversion be overtaxing the supercharger? Else, why would this not be more common among the companies to offer complete packages...or am i a retard, and it is common?

[DaveNagy]

Seems a little steep for a chip re-program and a pully.
Nice results though. I'll be glad when there's some more competition and less incentive to price gouge.

Regarding the waterpump, I think the main worry there is that an overdriven pump might start cavitating, which would reduce flow, not increase it. Outright pump failure would be another unhappy possibility.

Increasing water flow through the radiator would actually improve cooling, not hurt it. (Efficient heat transfer happens when there's a large temp difference between the two "sides" of an exchange. With less flow, the water stays in the engine block, and in the radiator, longer. Heat transfer gets more difficult the longer the water stays in either place because the temperature difference gets less and less. (The water in the engine gets hotter and more similar to the the engine temp, while the water in the radiator gets cooler and more similar to the air temp.)

Ideally, you'd want a relatively small amount of water racing around really fast. Of course if such a system failed, the engine would overheat very quickly. No margin for error.

-Dave

[presurized mini]

I think as far as the water pump being faster that should not hurt anything it would only help as it improves water flow thruogh the engine and the rad the thermostat is going to control the rest

[BruceK]

Quote:

Originally posted by minimini36
BruceK

I have seen multiple other references to 161 hp for an MCS. These have included several articles in magazines. It may be 163 for US versions and a different value in other countries. This tuner appears to be in the UK. Also other countries specify the power in KW not Hp and there may be a small error in the conversion factor used. It is possible that the pre-production number released may have been 161.

I've seen other reference to 161 hp before too, but chalked it up to lazy journalism, one writer copying the mistake of another. As Paul indicates, the UK horsepower number is the same as the US number, 163 hp.

Your point about pre-production sounds reasonable, but have a look at the MINI2 news item (below) about the Cooper S. The article is over 1 year old now and was written more than 6 months before the Cooper S went on sale -- it clearly states 163 hp.

http://www.mini2.com/news/news.php?id=87

[Paul]

Quote:

Originally posted by BruceK

Your point about pre-production sounds reasonable, but have a look at the MINI2 news item (below) about the Cooper S. The article is over 1 year old now and was written more than 6 months before the Cooper S went on sale -- it clearly states 163 hp.

http://www.mini2.com/news/news.php?id=87

How good are we?

[PigLick]

I wonder how many of these they've built? Perhaps if they've just done it to one car, they dyno'ed it before and after, and are using the actual dyno results which, for that particular car, is 161. Of course, I'd hate to think they're selling this on the open market if they've only tested it on one car, but just thought I'd throw out that possibility...

PigLick

[QQQ]

Take for example the Clio Sport and the CTR, in continental europe the Clio has 172 HP and the CTR 200 HP, whilst in the UK the Clio has 170 BHP and the CTR 197 BHP. The MINI has 161 BHP and 163 HP.

See also this link

[Mugami]

I have some points to make on the waterpump question. these are only my opinions and thought they could be wrong. If the Supercharger pulley is the only one to change and maybe the belt itself. Then the Drive(crank)pulley and the belt itself will be traveling at the same speed as before. There inlies any Pulley in that drive line that is the same diameter will travel at the same speed as before. If a pulley is smaller then that unit will turn faster and any pulley that is larger will travel slower. Since I havent seen the water pump and have never heard of one being not driven by the drive belt except for an electic one. Im Assumming that it is driven off a serpentine belt then my points should be correct.

[jlm]

one way to look at the increased rotaional speed:

assuming that the pulley change produces about 15% change, that would mean that at mid-range, say 4000 rpm, the pump is now rotating as fast as it did at 4600 rpm; not an operating range problem until you get near 5800 rpm, which converts to 6800 rpm and then to redline 6800 rpm converting to 7800.

how much time do you expect to spend above 5,800-6000 rpm anyway?

[Mugami]

defenetly.. never thought or seen that done before. As my point were for standard charger set ups where the water pump is done thru the same belt drive as the charge.. ill have to look into this set up. Also been thinking of adding a Turbo to the MCS so I can have the lowend of the Supercharger and adjustable boost for top end. Since the Supercharger will make the turbo think its a bigger engine and I can install a Larger turbo than normal. No im not crazy its been done before just not on a Mini.. Yet.

[minimini36]

Hi guys

I will agree that the US spec is 163 hp. I think there might have been an original spec of 120 kw that later got changed and not all references were updated. That or someone at MINI is not good with math.

If you check on www.MINI.com you will find 120kw(163 hp). If you do the math you will find 120 kw equals 160.85790884718498659517426273458 hp. There are several of the official MINI sites that reference the 120 kw number. The German article on the MCS drivetrain also specified 120 kw as the power. There is even a dyno chart of the power showing 120 kw in the German language version of the document. (The link to this article now seems to need a password for access)

As far as articles or web pages go here are just a few referencing 120 kw, 160 or 161 hp.

Car and Driver magazine http://caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddri... per&class=22

From roadfly 160hp
This is a release from MINI
Euro Specs for Cooper - 02/27/2001
European Specifications Announced for MINI COOPER
Woodcliff Lake, February 27, 2001
http://www.roadfly.org/mini/news/art...?article_id=24

There are many other web references to 120 kw.

In current magazines the May 21 2002 issue of Autocar magazine page 43 and 45 lists 161 hp. This is a UK magazine and the tuner was also in the UK.

The current EVO magazine (also from the UK) in the cover story about 4 hot hatches on pages 67 and 73 also lists 161 hp.
I think this shows there is some confusion on this subject. It may depend if you are an HP or KW person. I think we can give the tuner who says stock at 161 hp a little break. Also remember some numbers that were released were preliminary such as the gas mileage figures until testing and certifications were complete.

[BruceK]

Quote:

Originally posted by minimini36
Hi guys

I will agree that the US spec is 163 hp. I think there might have been an original spec of 120 kw that later got changed and not all references were updated. That or someone at MINI is not good with math.

If you check on www.MINI.com you will find 120kw(163 hp). If you do the math you will find 120 kw equals 160.85790884718498659517426273458 hp. There are several of the official MINI sites that reference the 120 kw number. The German article on the MCS drivetrain also specified 120 kw as the power. There is even a dyno chart of the power showing 120 kw in the German language version of the document. (The link to this article now seems to need a password for access)

As far as articles or web pages go here are just a few referencing 120 kw, 160 or 161 hp.

Car and Driver magazine http://caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddri... per&class=22

From roadfly 160hp
This is a release from MINI
Euro Specs for Cooper - 02/27/2001
European Specifications Announced for MINI COOPER
Woodcliff Lake, February 27, 2001
http://www.roadfly.org/mini/news/art...?article_id=24

There are many other web references to 120 kw.

In current magazines the May 21 2002 issue of Autocar magazine page 43 and 45 lists 161 hp. This is a UK magazine and the tuner was also in the UK.

The current EVO magazine (also from the UK) in the cover story about 4 hot hatches on pages 67 and 73 also lists 161 hp.
I think this shows there is some confusion on this subject. It may depend if you are an HP or KW person. I think we can give the tuner who says stock at 161 hp a little break. Also remember some numbers that were released were preliminary such as the gas mileage figures until testing and certifications were complete.

Point(s) taken.

[Loui]

In the Uk the power for the cooper S is quoted at 163bhp the same as in the US. I would say that Graham Goode has had there test car on the rollers and thats what it produced before the conversion. Graham Goode is a well respected tuner and ex racing driver in the UK so this convesion should be a pretty good one

[Gisby]

Graham Goode car has 165 bhp tested on the rollers.
I have the test (stock and modified)on a pdf document, but I don't know how to post it

[NickG]

The MTZ aticle explains the water pump issue

"This (the supercharger) and the other auxiliaries are driven from the crankshaft by a 6-groove V-belt, the supercharger being located in front of the engine. The transmission ratio is 2.06. At an engine cut-off speed of 6,950 rpm, the supercharger thus runs at 14,317 rpm"

"the water pump is driven via a coupling and reduction gears from the rear end of the supercharger. The reduction gears are integrated into the supercharger housing"