[rasp]

Cordial.

Had the upgrade about a fortnight now, not been able to estimate mpg at the moment I just cant keep me foot of the peddle, but as I keep saying the car is awsome now, I personally think the car has improved from low rpm but must admit comes into its power band from around 3500/4000rpm as it pulls hard all the way to 7500rpm , have had no problems at all so far with the car, the airbox and ducting has no visable changes at all, only sound difference comes from the Kompresor which is rather nice. Advise you to tell your insurance .


Rasp

[cordial]

Thanks for your feedback, Rasp. I will keep you updated in the new year(on a new thread!).

And watch that pedal!!!

[Shamster]

does anyone know what the absolute total price for the Hartge conversion is?

It looks like £1500+VAT = about £1762 but what about cost of fitting + Hartge warranty?

Final price anyone? I just want to know what that will be.

[rasp]

Shamster

£ 1500.00 + vat including fitting.
£ 400.00 aprox for three years waranty.

Rasp.

[Bad Manners]

I broached the subject of Hartge and warranty with one of the sales guys at my dealer. He said best to speak with service manager, and that if any modified component broke, obviously that wouldn't be covered. I took that to mean if the supercharger was to fail, they're not replacing that under MINI warranty.

Anyway, he wasn't my main sales guy, he wasn't the sales manager, and he wasn't the service manager, so I have much more probing to do to of my dealer.

Obviously, anybody interested in warranty on their modified MINI would be looking to make sure that between Birds and MINI, everything was covered. You wouldn't want anything to fall through a gap between the two.

Is there information on what Birds/Hartge £400 warranty covers? Is it there to cover anything that breaks that your dealer wouldn't touch with a bargepole (eg crankshaft, transmission, drive shaft), or does it cover just the bits that Birds have fitted?

[Bonnie Scotland]

Shamster, as rasp says the figure quoted by Birds is the total price you pay, it includes all fitting.

The warranty payment of £400.00 has never been confirmed by birds and certainly will not be covered by Hartge, the figure that birds have quoted is based on experience for other cars and they are actively looking into it. Unless birds can confirm different they use a different broker for this. Best bet is to call birds direct and see if they have sourced the insurance yet.

Quote:

Bad Manners Wrote
I broached the subject of Hartge and warranty with one of the sales guys at my dealer. He said best to speak with service manager, and that if any modified component broke, obviously that wouldn't be covered. I took that to mean if the supercharger was to fail, they're not replacing that under MINI warranty

It goes without saying that if you replace a BMW part with something else then BMW are not going to give you warranty for it. That goes for stereos and aftermarket bits. The Hartge conversion does not replace the supercharger and i have not come accross any by any other tuner. If you put a nice bit of chrome on your gear shift base and it eventually tears the leather gaiter are BMW gonna replace it, no chance. If your car goes up in smoke after fitting a new stereo is BMW gonna compensate you, no.
All i see is people worried about engine mods, i know it's expensive and can appreciate your concerns, but where, does it end.

Common sense has to prevail!!!!

The Hartge parts will not, IN MY OPINION, fail, to the extent that they will be a cause of other parts failures so MY warranty will remain intact. No i don't have it in writing but i have the blessing of my dealer.

If anyone has any reservations about any engine mod then don't do it. Ask yourself why you bought the car in the first place if future mods were gonna be high on your list.

alan fae bonnie scotland

[PhilClarke]

Hi guys

It's good to see the forum so active discussing the Hartge package! We've now upgraded 10 MCS's with orders for many more in coming weeks and no reason to expect any let-up. Autocar and Evo are testing the car this week so look out for it in the New Year.

As a direct competitor for Alpina and Schnitzer, both Hartge and ourselves are well used to questions about warranty, so I thought it may be useful for me to outline a few points.

TLC and warranty naturally contain terms that help BMW to avoid liabilities that are truly not theirs. Our work stays within existing manufacturer tolerances and is not detectable unless someone is actively looking for it. In the unlikely event that you ever had to make a claim under warranty for engine related failure, you should call us first, and we would handle any issues arising.

In all our years of handling modified engines with BMW warranty, no customer has ever had to fork out for a problem, whether caused by BMWs' kit or ours. The risk is small, compared to the obvious gains.

Some MINI dealers have already ordered the package from us, which gives you an idea of their confidence in Hartge's development capabilities. At the end of the day Hartge could double the price and incude a manufacturer-type warranty, but it would simply not make sense for 99% of customers.

I am in discussion with a broker about manufacturer-replacement warranties, but this is taking some time so don't hold your breath. £400 is the figure I have in mind, but informal research shows that most of our customers wouldn't take it up anyway which may make the whole idea financially redundant!

So, in summary, if you want to make your dealer happy then buy the JCW solution. If however you want more than 200hp, want a premier tuners name and want the best value, come talk to us. You pay your money and take your choice..

Enjoy your cars guys, whichever route you take.

Phil

[LMB]

First off I would like to thank you Phil for coming on and clarifying a few things.

I've just got a couple of questions...

Quote:

Originally posted by PhilClarke
Our work stays within existing manufacturer tolerances and .

What do you mean?

Quote:

In the unlikely event that you ever had to make a claim under warranty for engine related failure, you should call us first, and we would handle any issues arising.

So you would argue our case?

Quote:

So, in summary, if you want to make your dealer happy then buy the JCW solution. If however you want more than 200hp, want a premier tuners name and want the best value, come talk to us. You pay your money and take your choice.

humm............

Thanks again Phil

[friedduck]

Thanks for the post Phil. It all sounds very promising. Please keep us informed if you make any arrangements stateside so that we yanks can take advantage of the kit. (We can at least find Evo at the bookstores and hear of their impressions.)

Regards,

Jeff

[cordial]

As a long-time EVO addict, MCS owner and potential Hartge client, I can't wait for the test report!!!

[rasp]

Its the DOGS GAHOONERS!
End of test report.

[Bad Manners]

Thanks Bonnie for your input

Quote:

Originally posted by PhilClarke
In all our years of handling modified engines with BMW warranty, no customer has ever had to fork out for a problem, whether caused by BMWs' kit or ours. The risk is small, compared to the obvious gains.

Thats encouraging

Quote:

Originally posted by rasp
Its the DOGS GAHOONERS!
End of test report.

[rasp]

On a serious note, the Hartge upgrade is realy a superb bit of performance tuning, I think that those of you who are seriously thinking of wanting more power from this little car dont take anybodys word for it, get down there and see for yourself, Hartge are not some everyday run of the mill carstop, they are big in Germany some say on par with Alpina & Schnitzer ( I think thats how you spell it).
If you want more power than any other upgrade on the market at the moment then 215bhp is the most you will get, the posability of anything major going wrong is very low, 10 other S owners now have had the upgrade at Birds I personaly know four of them and I can honestly say that they are all very satisfied indeed.
Waranty is an issue with a lot of you but some have spoken to there dealers and have been told that there is no problem with the upgrade and that there waranty is all intact I have been told that it is not but still I have had the upgrade done because the chances of any major problems are quite remote.
MPG is another question been asked, I have not seen any difference in mpg ( aprox 28-30mpg ) except when really putting the pedal to the metal, then you can expect around 16-19mpg , but be sure when doing so you really are moving hitting 7500rpm before the limiter kicks in.
All in all I think the waranty issue is worth taking. Some may say Im stupid but I know its well worth that chance.
Do you?

Rasp

[Shamster]

I can't see the relevance of the MPG issue - when you do a job like this I would've thought the loss of a few extra MPG wouldn't really matter - I mean the whole point of getting this conversion done is to exploit the power surely.

If they hold the price I think I will also get it.

[rasp]

Shamster
Clarkson said on top gear yesterday about an AMG Merc only doing 7mpg when boot it! If this was the case with the Hartge S then I still couldnt care less, this car rocks.

Rasp

[Shamster]

Quote:

If this was the case with the Hartge S then I still couldnt care less, this car rocks

Rasp

I am in total agreement. For the last few years I have always chosen cars which have turned out to give poor MPG.

The fun that I've had from them has far outweighed the cost of the 'extra' fuel.

I'm beginning to want this conversion even more now!!

[Grinder]

I'm wanting it even more too! But, as of yet, there are no US hartge conversions for MINIs that I know of...

[rasp]

Quality through & through!

Birds appointed UK's southern technical centre for Pagani and their new Zonda supercar
Birds has recently been appointed southern technical centre by Pagani (UK) and will provide service, maintenance and warranty support for UK customers. Having vast experience of tuned Mercedes, Birds is the obvious technical partner for the acclaimed supercar, which is powered by a 7.3l AMG Mercedes V12 engine - not dissimilar to the flagship Carlsson C74 engine conversion.

Rasp

[cordial]

Just to set the record straight, my question about MPG was purely academic. It's obvious that there is no free Hartge lunch. I didn't buy an MCS for its fuel economy and I am not going to try and tune it for economy. I am doing it for FUN!

[Shamster]

Quote:

I am doing it for FUN!

lets hope your fun begins soon!