MINI2

alta2 · Feb 18th, 2003, 01:41 AM

911ETR,
Since water is such a good heat sucker upper, it makes the intercooler much more effeciant. Remember, all the intercooler does is exhange heat, so any thing like a water sprayer, bigger intercooler, or water injection will help this.
So the HP gained is from the colder denser air, that will enter the engine.

paulmon · Feb 18th, 2003, 01:50 AM

"heat sucker upper" I love it!

Even if this doesn't make huge gains it is just too cool!

How hard are the silicone hose couplers to put in?

Paul

911ETR · Feb 18th, 2003, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alta2
911ETR,
Since water is such a good heat sucker upper, it makes the intercooler much more effeciant. Remember, all the intercooler does is exhange heat, so any thing like a water sprayer, bigger intercooler, or water injection will help this.
So the HP gained is from the colder denser air, that will enter the engine.

Yes I agree that this will help in the heat soaked days no doubt but again this is not going to give you any more power over when the car is cold in the morning. You are not going to flick a switch and get 20hp unless you already lost the 20hp from heat.

The only reason for larger intercoolers is to keep the heat away so you can run more boost. The more boost is where you are actually getting your power.

Anyway I am eagerly awaiting your kit since I have ordered it. Whats the ETA to my door?

paulmon · Feb 18th, 2003, 01:14 PM

Bryan, let us know when you get it. Won't do me much in the Winter but when it's 32c outside this summer it can't hurt, and it just looks too cool!

How much of a bad thing would it be if you sprayed windshield washer fluid on the intercooler? (assuming you forgot to put water)

Paul

paulmon · Feb 18th, 2003, 01:50 PM

obehave, good point. I can also see a windshield washer fluid with a high alcohol content turning your car into a ball of fire. Granted you wouldn't have to worry about deposits on your intercooler fins in this case. HAha

Paul

alta2 · Feb 18th, 2003, 06:07 PM

911ETR, you are right, you will not all of a sudden get a 20hp boost when the water is spraying. But on a hot day you should definately see a drop in intake temp with the water running. Which does increse HP, by how much, that is hard to say with out running it on the dyno.

Your splitter should be to you by the end of the week! please let call at let me know what you think!

911ETR · Feb 18th, 2003, 10:35 PM

Thanks Jeff, I am excited to test it.

paulmon · Feb 18th, 2003, 10:40 PM

Keep us posted 911ETR.

Paul

TonyB · Apr 9th, 2003, 04:02 AM

Ok 911ETR, with the hot days not so far off, what's up???

I've been having dreams about finally rigging that open toggle for something trick like this

I think you've had this product for almost 2 months... Maybe it is a secret weapon you want to keep to yourself

Share with your MINI brethren!

Apr 9th, 2003, 10:08 AM

would it be possible to design the Alta spray kit to wire up to the empty toggel switch? That would be seriously cool.

-Andrew

TonyB · Apr 9th, 2003, 10:51 AM

Sure, at least I don't forsee any problems with doing so

And with that, the up position is a manual blast, and the down position is simply on - with some type of control/relay that spits out water every 30 seconds, or so...

First need to find-out what the dyno is saying...

911ETR · Apr 9th, 2003, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TonyB
Ok 911ETR, with the hot days not so far off, what's up???

I've been having dreams about finally rigging that open toggle for something trick like this

I think you've had this product for almost 2 months... Maybe it is a secret weapon you want to keep to yourself Share with your MINI brethren!

Well guys to be honest the diverter looks cool but is very heavy compared to the stock ABS plastic. It’s a well made piece but No offense Alta but the water spray is a joke. Not in general but in this kit. I would like to see a real intelligent water spray system. This seems to be a hack job. Directing more air to the intercooler helps but only when you’re moving. How much air you’re actually seeing vs. stock is hard to tell since temps change faster than I can install it back to stock. Let’s just say with out the water spray it’s not really noticeable.

I have not even tried the water spray because I refuse to get rid of my rear windshield wiper. I gotta see out of it

If there is a revision to the product then I might try the water spray but I have actually talked to several other manufactures that are coming out with intercoolers that won’t need it. I can’t really comment on it more until they are released.

Alta,

I think you’re on the right track, complete this kit, make the diverter a bit lighter and you will have the market for a low cost solution.

Giddy up

911ETR · Apr 9th, 2003, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TonyB
Sure, at least I don't forsee any problems with doing so

And with that, the up position is a manual blast, and the down position is simply on - with some type of control/relay that spits out water every 30 seconds, or so...

First need to find-out what the dyno is saying...

No use in doing this fella's, just need an intelligent system like the one MRT sells that gives water when the intercooler needs it at certain RPM's.. Something programable would be nice.

I have seen the insides of that switch and its not real nice looking

Save the switch for your ejector seat.

TonyB · Apr 10th, 2003, 01:59 AM

Ok, I'll leave open that open toggle for now...

MRT? I will do some research...

At certain RPMs would be nice, but also with a defeat option, or a separate manual option I think would be nice. And if not, the ability for the end user to set the desired RPM trigger...

That is what I envision...

Thanks!

lotoole3 · Apr 11th, 2003, 02:09 PM

Here's some info on an intelligent intercooler spray system, installed on an S4...

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0578&P=1

TonyB · Apr 11th, 2003, 11:15 PM

Maybe it is just my home pc this morn, but I can't see that link... I'll try at work though. Thanks!

TonyB · Apr 12th, 2003, 12:53 AM

The link does work, and that is indeed something MCS owners would ponder... Not in time for this summer though

alta2 · Apr 19th, 2003, 02:58 AM

911ETR,
I am sorry that you don't like the diverter, or at least the water sprayer part. Maybe you didn't see how our kit comes with the tee so you can use both the rear washer and water sprayer at the same time. In the instructions we give 2 options to hook it up, one using a tee so there is no disconnection of the rear wiper and a second which disconnects the rear wiper.

As for the weight, our part is steel vs. plastic so yes it is heavier. But assuming that the plastic hood trim was removed per the instructions then the total increase in weight is less than 1/4 pound! I am truly convinced this won't affect the handling of the car. The plastic diverter wieghts .875 lbs, and the plastic part that is bolted to the hood wieghts 1.875 lbs. Together both weight 2.75 lbs. Our diverter weights 3.0lbs so the difference is .25lbs.

Our diverter will not come with the electronic trigger system like MRT sells and for one simple reason......cost! (On a side note we have several of the MRT units here if any one is interested in trying it out on the MINI.)Our diverter with the electronic sprayer would retail for more than $600! This would definatly put off many customers that can get nearly equal benefit from an investment of only $179.99. Offering each part seperately may attract some customers because they could buy the basic kit for $179.99 then upgrade to the "electronic trigger system" for somewhere around $400. Add a seperate water tank and the cost soars to over $600! While not on the top of our list of priorities a sub-system is in development and may released as early as December of this year.

Everyone should keep in mind that the water spray is a great addition to the diverter itself. The diverter without any type of water spray will still improve airflow over the intercooler tremendously. In warmer climates the difference is more significant but, for prolonged higher boost situations (canyon carving, drag racing, track time etc.)the diverter will help maintain reasonable inlet temperatures. At the same time it is a great dress up item for your next MINI meet. The water spray is truly beneficial and should be used whenever situations dictate an added blast of cold air! The results are instantaneous and great for the next stop light competition, drag race, or for that added edge when passing on a mountain twisty! The water tank in the vehicle supplies water to the rear and front washer squirters. There is a low tank warning lamp on your MINI from the factory to prevent usage when water supplies are low.

Also, one additional side note. Our large top mount intercooler that 911ETR refers to above does come with a different diverter and sprayer. It is different only because it has to be larger and different shaped to clear the larger intercooler. Pics can be found on the intake comparo thread elsewhere on this website. MSRP is $999.99 for the intercooler, diverter, sprayer etc. They will be shippable in about 2-3 weeks. See us or your local ALTA MINI Dealer for more info (Mini-Motorsport, Vivid Racing etc.)

If anyone has any other questions regarding this or any other ALTA MINI Performance part please let me or our staff know. We aim to help!

Jeff Perrin
www.altaminiperformance.com

macncheese · Apr 19th, 2003, 10:20 AM

What sort of gains would my $1,000USD net me?

--
Cheese

Feb 18th, 2003, 01:41 AM	#21
alta2 MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Or Local Time: 09:17 PM Posts: 13 Offline	911ETR, Since water is such a good heat sucker upper, it makes the intercooler much more effeciant. Remember, all the intercooler does is exhange heat, so any thing like a water sprayer, bigger intercooler, or water injection will help this. So the HP gained is from the colder denser air, that will enter the engine. Jeff Perrin www.altaminiperformance.com

Feb 18th, 2003, 01:50 AM	#22 (permalink)
paulmon MINI2 Senior Derelict Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mississauga(Toronto) Local Time: 05:17 PM Posts: 774 Offline	"heat sucker upper" I love it! Even if this doesn't make huge gains it is just too cool! How hard are the silicone hose couplers to put in? Paul Southern Ontario MINI Club

Feb 18th, 2003, 01:14 PM	#24 (permalink)
paulmon MINI2 Senior Derelict Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mississauga(Toronto) Local Time: 05:17 PM Posts: 774 Offline	Bryan, let us know when you get it. Won't do me much in the Winter but when it's 32c outside this summer it can't hurt, and it just looks too cool! How much of a bad thing would it be if you sprayed windshield washer fluid on the intercooler? (assuming you forgot to put water) Paul Southern Ontario MINI Club

Feb 18th, 2003, 01:50 PM	#25 (permalink)
paulmon MINI2 Senior Derelict Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mississauga(Toronto) Local Time: 05:17 PM Posts: 774 Offline	obehave, good point. I can also see a windshield washer fluid with a high alcohol content turning your car into a ball of fire. Granted you wouldn't have to worry about deposits on your intercooler fins in this case. HAha Paul Southern Ontario MINI Club

Feb 18th, 2003, 06:07 PM	#26 (permalink)
alta2 MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Or Local Time: 09:17 PM Posts: 13 Offline	911ETR, you are right, you will not all of a sudden get a 20hp boost when the water is spraying. But on a hot day you should definately see a drop in intake temp with the water running. Which does increse HP, by how much, that is hard to say with out running it on the dyno. Your splitter should be to you by the end of the week! please let call at let me know what you think! Jeff Perrin www.altaminiperformance.com

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Feb 18th, 2003, 06:39 AM	#23 (permalink)
911ETR MINI2 Senior Join Date: Oct 2002 Local Time: 01:17 PM Posts: 607 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by alta2 911ETR, Since water is such a good heat sucker upper, it makes the intercooler much more effeciant. Remember, all the intercooler does is exhange heat, so any thing like a water sprayer, bigger intercooler, or water injection will help this. So the HP gained is from the colder denser air, that will enter the engine. Yes I agree that this will help in the heat soaked days no doubt but again this is not going to give you any more power over when the car is cold in the morning. You are not going to flick a switch and get 20hp unless you already lost the 20hp from heat. The only reason for larger intercoolers is to keep the heat away so you can run more boost. The more boost is where you are actually getting your power. Anyway I am eagerly awaiting your kit since I have ordered it. Whats the ETA to my door?

Feb 18th, 2003, 10:35 PM	#27 (permalink)
911ETR MINI2 Senior Join Date: Oct 2002 Local Time: 01:17 PM Posts: 607 Offline	Thanks Jeff, I am excited to test it.

Feb 18th, 2003, 10:40 PM	#28 (permalink)
paulmon MINI2 Senior Derelict Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mississauga(Toronto) Local Time: 05:17 PM Posts: 774 Offline	Keep us posted 911ETR. Paul Southern Ontario MINI Club

Apr 9th, 2003, 04:02 AM	#29 (permalink)
TonyB Don MINIo Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: South Bay Area, CA Local Time: 02:17 PM Posts: 1,669 Offline	Summer = Resurrection Ok 911ETR, with the hot days not so far off, what's up??? I've been having dreams about finally rigging that open toggle for something trick like this I think you've had this product for almost 2 months... Maybe it is a secret weapon you want to keep to yourself Share with your MINI brethren! '03 (9.6.02) MCS IB/W Lapis Blue Leather Mission = 10:1 (Weight:HP)

Apr 9th, 2003, 10:08 AM	#30 (permalink)
L8 Apex Posts: n/a	would it be possible to design the Alta spray kit to wire up to the empty toggel switch? That would be seriously cool. -Andrew

Apr 9th, 2003, 10:51 AM	#31 (permalink)
TonyB Don MINIo Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: South Bay Area, CA Local Time: 02:17 PM Posts: 1,669 Offline	Sure, at least I don't forsee any problems with doing so And with that, the up position is a manual blast, and the down position is simply on - with some type of control/relay that spits out water every 30 seconds, or so... First need to find-out what the dyno is saying... '03 (9.6.02) MCS IB/W Lapis Blue Leather Mission = 10:1 (Weight:HP)

Apr 9th, 2003, 04:40 PM	#32 (permalink)
911ETR MINI2 Senior Join Date: Oct 2002 Local Time: 01:17 PM Posts: 607 Offline	Re: Summer = Resurrection Quote: Originally posted by TonyB Ok 911ETR, with the hot days not so far off, what's up??? I've been having dreams about finally rigging that open toggle for something trick like this I think you've had this product for almost 2 months... Maybe it is a secret weapon you want to keep to yourself Share with your MINI brethren! Well guys to be honest the diverter looks cool but is very heavy compared to the stock ABS plastic. It’s a well made piece but No offense Alta but the water spray is a joke. Not in general but in this kit. I would like to see a real intelligent water spray system. This seems to be a hack job. Directing more air to the intercooler helps but only when you’re moving. How much air you’re actually seeing vs. stock is hard to tell since temps change faster than I can install it back to stock. Let’s just say with out the water spray it’s not really noticeable. I have not even tried the water spray because I refuse to get rid of my rear windshield wiper. I gotta see out of it If there is a revision to the product then I might try the water spray but I have actually talked to several other manufactures that are coming out with intercoolers that won’t need it. I can’t really comment on it more until they are released. Alta, I think you’re on the right track, complete this kit, make the diverter a bit lighter and you will have the market for a low cost solution. Giddy up

Apr 9th, 2003, 04:44 PM	#33 (permalink)
911ETR MINI2 Senior Join Date: Oct 2002 Local Time: 01:17 PM Posts: 607 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by TonyB Sure, at least I don't forsee any problems with doing so And with that, the up position is a manual blast, and the down position is simply on - with some type of control/relay that spits out water every 30 seconds, or so... First need to find-out what the dyno is saying... No use in doing this fella's, just need an intelligent system like the one MRT sells that gives water when the intercooler needs it at certain RPM's.. Something programable would be nice. I have seen the insides of that switch and its not real nice looking Save the switch for your ejector seat.

Apr 10th, 2003, 01:59 AM	#34 (permalink)
TonyB Don MINIo Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: South Bay Area, CA Local Time: 02:17 PM Posts: 1,669 Offline	Ok, I'll leave open that open toggle for now... MRT? I will do some research... At certain RPMs would be nice, but also with a defeat option, or a separate manual option I think would be nice. And if not, the ability for the end user to set the desired RPM trigger... That is what I envision... Thanks! '03 (9.6.02) MCS IB/W Lapis Blue Leather Mission = 10:1 (Weight:HP)

Apr 11th, 2003, 02:09 PM	#35 (permalink)
lotoole3 MINI2 Irregular Join Date: May 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Local Time: 05:17 PM Posts: 179 Offline	Here's some info on an intelligent intercooler spray system, installed on an S4... http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0578&P=1 lotoole3 2005 JB/B MCS :: Motoring since 8.22.04 2002 DS/B MCS :: RIP due to flood 8.1.04

Apr 11th, 2003, 11:15 PM	#36 (permalink)
TonyB Don MINIo Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: South Bay Area, CA Local Time: 02:17 PM Posts: 1,669 Offline	Maybe it is just my home pc this morn, but I can't see that link... I'll try at work though. Thanks! '03 (9.6.02) MCS IB/W Lapis Blue Leather Mission = 10:1 (Weight:HP)

Apr 12th, 2003, 12:53 AM	#37 (permalink)
TonyB Don MINIo Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: South Bay Area, CA Local Time: 02:17 PM Posts: 1,669 Offline	The link does work, and that is indeed something MCS owners would ponder... Not in time for this summer though '03 (9.6.02) MCS IB/W Lapis Blue Leather Mission = 10:1 (Weight:HP)

Apr 19th, 2003, 02:58 AM	#38 (permalink)
alta2 MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Or Local Time: 09:17 PM Posts: 13 Offline	911ETR, I am sorry that you don't like the diverter, or at least the water sprayer part. Maybe you didn't see how our kit comes with the tee so you can use both the rear washer and water sprayer at the same time. In the instructions we give 2 options to hook it up, one using a tee so there is no disconnection of the rear wiper and a second which disconnects the rear wiper. As for the weight, our part is steel vs. plastic so yes it is heavier. But assuming that the plastic hood trim was removed per the instructions then the total increase in weight is less than 1/4 pound! I am truly convinced this won't affect the handling of the car. The plastic diverter wieghts .875 lbs, and the plastic part that is bolted to the hood wieghts 1.875 lbs. Together both weight 2.75 lbs. Our diverter weights 3.0lbs so the difference is .25lbs. Our diverter will not come with the electronic trigger system like MRT sells and for one simple reason......cost! (On a side note we have several of the MRT units here if any one is interested in trying it out on the MINI.)Our diverter with the electronic sprayer would retail for more than $600! This would definatly put off many customers that can get nearly equal benefit from an investment of only $179.99. Offering each part seperately may attract some customers because they could buy the basic kit for $179.99 then upgrade to the "electronic trigger system" for somewhere around $400. Add a seperate water tank and the cost soars to over $600! While not on the top of our list of priorities a sub-system is in development and may released as early as December of this year. Everyone should keep in mind that the water spray is a great addition to the diverter itself. The diverter without any type of water spray will still improve airflow over the intercooler tremendously. In warmer climates the difference is more significant but, for prolonged higher boost situations (canyon carving, drag racing, track time etc.)the diverter will help maintain reasonable inlet temperatures. At the same time it is a great dress up item for your next MINI meet. The water spray is truly beneficial and should be used whenever situations dictate an added blast of cold air! The results are instantaneous and great for the next stop light competition, drag race, or for that added edge when passing on a mountain twisty! The water tank in the vehicle supplies water to the rear and front washer squirters. There is a low tank warning lamp on your MINI from the factory to prevent usage when water supplies are low. Also, one additional side note. Our large top mount intercooler that 911ETR refers to above does come with a different diverter and sprayer. It is different only because it has to be larger and different shaped to clear the larger intercooler. Pics can be found on the intake comparo thread elsewhere on this website. MSRP is $999.99 for the intercooler, diverter, sprayer etc. They will be shippable in about 2-3 weeks. See us or your local ALTA MINI Dealer for more info (Mini-Motorsport, Vivid Racing etc.) If anyone has any other questions regarding this or any other ALTA MINI Performance part please let me or our staff know. We aim to help! Jeff Perrin www.altaminiperformance.com Jeff Perrin www.altaminiperformance.com

Apr 19th, 2003, 10:20 AM	#39 (permalink)
macncheese MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New Jersey Local Time: 05:17 PM Posts: 1,212 Offline	What sort of gains would my $1,000USD net me? -- Cheese

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