[minimc]

GordonD

10K for 200hp?

Even the JCW S Works kit only comes to $7500 CDN. What's the additional $2500 for? You planning of give that to someone to install a new cam, air filter, and badges?

DUDE!

Speed does cost, but you don't have to get raped in the transaction! Performance, high quality & warranty can be had at more reasonable prices.

...But if its exclusivity you desire... Go forth brother & do your part for the economy!

p.s.
Heard a rumor that JCW had to change the name of the kit cuz $-Works was just a little too obvious.

[GordonD]

Quote:

Originally posted by minimc
GordonD

10K for 200hp?

Even the JCW S Works kit only comes to $7500 CDN. What's the additional $2500 for? You planning of give that to someone to install a new cam, air filter, and badges?

DUDE!

Speed does cost, but you don't have to get raped in the transaction! Performance, high quality & warranty can be had at more reasonable prices.

...But if its exclusivity you desire... Go forth brother & do your part for the economy!

p.s.
Heard a rumor that JCW had to change the name of the kit cuz $-Works was just a little too obvious.

The interesting thing about this thread is that we are are all getting hot about rumours - or maybe it's the lack of rumours. Someone (who sounded authorative) a few posts back suggested waiting until the Detroit motor show so maybe that's the smart thing to do.

On the pricing issue. From what I've read about the JCW Cooper stuff and looking at the limited information i'm guessing US$5,000 for the S kit - which is supposed to be a lot more than a cam etc.

Figure in instalation - at a BMW dealer so that you keep warranty - and I still don't think you will get much change from a $10,000 bill. I didn't intend to imply that this great value or even that I would be a customer.

[MiniE]

I was talking to my dealer here in Vancouver last week.
They told me that the JCW kit will for sure be selling at the dealer.
They expect the kit to be here my March. And take about 11hr labor.
Also for sure will keep the BMW warranty.

The unknown for now is the Price and how much Extra power is suppost to be

[SCA]

I exchanged emails with JCW couple weeks ago. Kit will be about $5500 in US fully installed, including parts and labor. Includes new head, supercharger, other mods. Apparently will also have upgraded brakes etc. as additional options you can get at added cost of course. Launch is January in UK and March in US. Hopefully won't slip from there. Also, should be fully covered under BMW warranty. All that info straight from JCW.

I'm sure there has been no communication from JCW lately because they are working doubletime on preparing for a worldwide launch of what will undoubtedley be its biggest product ever.

[911ETR]

Question,

Why would they choose to communicate this to you but no one else?

Sorry for the doubt but it seems that no one else can get anything out of them. Not even the dealers.

????????

[tip]

Okay People.

What we need is facts. Cold hard facts. Are mini owners going to be able to get the the JCW Conversion or another conversion and have it warrantied by BMW/Mini in North America. We should be bugging BMW/Mini Canada and BMW/Mini USA.


Charles

[ezrally]

Maybe all this delay w JCW and others is because BMW is developing a M version of the S.
This is per a tidbit in EVO mag (I just saw it) from Apr02 issue. I know this M stuff was hashed over and quashed earlier this year.
They said BMW was testing it at Nurburgring w "amazing lap times and 230bhp."
And more hp if the drivetrain can handle it.
The more delays w the aftermarket packages and the clammering for faster cars tends to make this believable, at least to me.

[SCA]

Quote:

Originally posted by 911ETR
Question,

Why would they choose to communicate this to you but no one else?

Sorry for the doubt but it seems that no one else can get anything out of them. Not even the dealers.

????????

Don't really care if you believe what I'm saying or not, to be quite honest. But that info's what I was told by JCW directly. Have you emailed them yourself? If not why not do so instead of trying to get info from a clueless dealer. I've sent JCW three emails myself over the last couple of months and received prompt, honest responses each time.

[911ETR]

Quote:

Originally posted by SCA


Don't really care if you believe what I'm saying or not, to be quite honest. But that info's what I was told by JCW directly. Have you emailed them yourself? If not why not do so instead of trying to get info from a clueless dealer. I've sent JCW three emails myself over the last couple of months and received prompt, honest responses each time.

I have actually also mailed them on a number of ocasions and they are not offering any info. Why dont you post the mails for us.

Then there is no question.

Thanks

[SCA]

This one (the last one, dated Nov 18) is the only one I haven't deleted. This is Paul Cooper's response to a question I asked concerning whether the JCW S package for the US had hit a roadblock as was rumored at the time. Earlier ones spoke to warranty and engine mods. Unfortunately I've deleted those...

Dear Steve

We are still on target for a UK January launch and the rest of the world will now follow around March. Don't worry, the kit will definitely be available in the US. As you may be aware this is a very big market for the MINI Cooper and we have received a lot of interest in our conversions.

Please keep an eye on our website over the next couple of months for more information.

Regards

Paul Cooper
John Cooper Works
www.johncooper.co.uk

[gt4pete]

M has built MINIs that put up rediculous numbers. They are masters of power and handling. However, we won't see them as they are rediculously expensive. No, we won't be seeing them. M is in the BMW stable (and the Group has no plan to change that). I would sooner expect BMW to buy out the JCW name than put an M badge on a MINI (the BMW Group takes branding to the nth degree). The M MINIs were merely an exercise for them ("showing off in front of the boss" if you will).

The JCW kit is holding for both performance and reliability testing. I'll let the rumor mill moan and wail about why exactly the delay is occuring. The Group is 95% on its way to announcing the kit, with full warranty backing.

Dinan has no formal relationship with the Group, as many believe. Some US dealers have taken to installing their products because it makes them money and they make a pretty good aftermarket product. It appears as a fatory effort because the authorized dealers have taken to installing unauthorized products (to the dismay of many within the Group). They do make good products, but don't rely on the name alone to get you what your looking for.

If anyone were to produce a true special, it would be Alpina. The JCW effort has come about because John Cooper himself was approached years ago to develop parts for the new MINI. It's not so much the JCW is lazy or slow, MINI themselves barely knew till the last minute (in design and developement terms) what they were doing from the factory with their powerplants.

The key thing to watch for in any of this stuff is not the horsepower gains. Those numbers are meaningless, every last one of them (factory or otherwise). The main things to be looking at are the air/fuel ratios and cooling capability. Let the horsepower/torque figures be a function of that. None of these gains matter unless they are done in a reliable fashion.

To the folks up in CA, the dealers are telling you that because that is how they must operate until an official announcement is made. Technically, if they installed any JCW equipment before it was sanctioned by BMW, they would be caught paying the repair bills for any warranty work that occured after the fact (even if it was later announced that the kit would not void the warranty). Right now, installed JCW stuff WILL negate the warranty on whatever sections of the car that they modify. Until they see a technical bulletin from AG or NA that says otherwise, that is the only story you will hear from them.

One last point about warranties. Let's all refrain from using the term "void the warranty" when talking about aftermarket peices. In the US, flood damage, fire, acts of God and theft "void the warranty" on your car (when title must be issued as a salvage or "other"). Otherwise, you are merely "modifying" the warranty as you "modify" your car. If your window regulator ceases operation after you install a catback exhaust, your warranty still covers that. If you burn an exhaust valve after changing your exhaust, your warranty will not cover that.

Bottom line: be patient and do your research.

(I'm in the US dealer network, I leave it at that)

[SCA]

Good post. Thanks!

[911ETR]

SCA,

Looks like your mail is the same info we are all receiving.

GT4Pete,

I believe you are right on track.

Quote:

The main things to be looking at are the air/fuel ratios and cooling capability. Let the horsepower/torque figures be a function of that. None of these gains matter unless they are done in a reliable fashion.

Many of you know of the research efforts I have doing with www.mcshp.org and this statement Pete said about air/fuel ratios and cooling capability are key. All this talk about pulleys and replacement superchargers etc are scary if you really understood how the Cooper S cooling system worked. I think the main reason that tuners are stuck at the 200-210 range is because cooling is an issue.

I am not talking about just adding a larger radiator or something simple. It's the water pump.

Going back to the subject line, we can all speculate about JCW and what is going on. The rumor mill has been burning strong and will continue to do so. Bottom line we will all find out at the first of the year if they hold true to the UK release dates.

Again I think GT4Pete is dead on, I have had Alpina products in the past. BMW 323 Alpina to be exact and they don’t mess around.

I for one am not waiting around for JCW, historically ANYTHING the dealer offers will be mild mannered and SAFE/reliable. If that is what you are after then it’s the way to go.

[JSA82]

Producing performance mods that can be certified and warrantied worldwide is not an easy process. Rarely have Alpina models been sold in the USA and even some M models have different specs in different markets. The main culprit is the Calif. Air Resources Board (CARB) which keeps uping the ante. For many years, you may recall, we had CA. certified cars and 49 state cars. Dinan is in CA and they know how difficult it is to certify there. One of the better rumors about the JCW delay in the USA was that they didn't have the expertise with emission issues and BMW stepped in to assist. Another example is Mini Mania's 200 hp turbo kit for the Cooper; it is not certified and can't be sold for street use in CA and certain other states. MM can sell a product with that label- BMW, JCW and their dealers really can't.