[Grinder]

Well, christmas and my birthday are coming up awfuly quickly, and as I'm sure you can guess, I'm looking to get some goodies for my MCS this year. Now my question to you is, which path should I take for more performance?

1) New rims, tires, suspension, brakes, etc...
2) Exhaust, chip, intake, etc...

As I can see it, #2 would probably be cheaper for a more noticable gain (more bang for the buck), but I'm still waiting on the www.mcshp.org test results Will I notice much of a difference with new rims and tires? I'm not sure if I'm into the ultra-light ultra-expensive wheels, but perhaps some nice, not-too-heavy rims and fairly grippy everyday tires. I'd prefer to get some larger wheels (not 15" or 16") as I like the look a bit better.

Any input/advice/suggestions are appreciated!

~Brad

[Chrono]

you already know what i plan to do. i decided that i would go with the lightweight and geting all the hp and torque i could to the ground. something you might want to consider when deciding is, looking around at the posts daily you will notice that just about nothing so far is producing significant increase in performance. Thats not to say something hasnt been gained but what im saying is i havent seen anything yet that makes the car blazing quick.

[Garfield]

Move to a very cold climate, that's a performance gain

On the way into work in 11 degree weather, I couldn't get my warmed-up 215 Azenis' to keep traction after a rolling start in 1st gear.

Personally, I'd go lightweight as well. It helps everything, handling, acceleration, and just overall feel. Go ultra-lightweight wheels AND tires (15" SSR's and Toyo T1-S), sticky tires, dump those silly deadweight exhaust cans in the back for something light (Supertrapp ), get a set of lightweight reclining seats, and if you're not using them, temporarily remove the rear seatbacks (leave the butt cushion, it doesn't weigh anything).

What I've just mentioned will loose you up to 300lbs! THAT's a significant performance gain, and you haven't even voided your warranty!!

Oh, and don't forget to never drive around with more than a quarter of a tank. That'll drop another 64lbs.

Have Fun,
Brian

[macncheese]

exhaust exhaust exhaust.

Don't worry about which one makes the most power. Pick the one that looks the nicest or better yet, pick the one that sounds the nicest. If there was any noticable difference between them, we'd know. Don't sweat all this dyno BS. Of all the mods I've done all the cars I've owned, the exhausts always made me smile the most. I guarantee you it will make you 200% happier than any chip ever will. I used to walk out to my previous truck grinning to hear the 360 exhale through the dual spintechs. I miss that truck just thinking about it! I never though "woohoo, i cant wait to drive with this chip!" ...but maybe some do? Plus, you're not touching the performance of anything else in your garage no matter what you do (well maybe the tractor).


--
Cheese

[Grinder]

Quote:

Originally posted by Garfield
Personally, I'd go lightweight as well. It helps everything, handling, acceleration, and just overall feel. Go ultra-lightweight wheels AND tires (15" SSR's and Toyo T1-S), sticky tires, dump those silly deadweight exhaust cans in the back for something light (Supertrapp ), get a set of lightweight reclining seats, and if you're not using them, temporarily remove the rear seatbacks (leave the butt cushion, it doesn't weigh anything).

What I've just mentioned will loose you up to 300lbs! THAT's a significant performance gain, and you haven't even voided your warranty!!

Brian

Brian, just something i've been wondering for a while...are 15" wheels just better because they're significantly lighter? It seems like with a smaller sidewall (keeping the overall diamater the same), you'd get better cornering. But all the auto-X ers get the 15" wheels, so there's gotta be a big advantage, just wondering what it is!

[Garfield]

You're right Mac, and there are many days that I like to just go out and start mine with the Supertrapp on it. Good point

Grinder, the significance of the 15's vs. 16's or 17's is the lightweight and where the rotation weight exists. The 10 lbs 17" wheel has it's rotational mass further out than the 10 lb 15" wheel. It's splitting hairs at that point, but still, every bit counts when you're trying to make weight improvements.

For autocrossers, it depends on the class. If I was allowed to change brakes for F Street Prepared, I'd actually put a SMALLER brake on so I could run 13" wheels. Meanwhile, for Stock class, a Cooper must run a 15x5.5 or 16x6.5, and a Cooper S must run a 16x6.5 or a 17x7.

As far as the sidewall goes, well I never said I would run the stock diameter on the 15" wheels. With Toyos, I'd run a 215/45R15 or a 205/50R15, the 215 being a pound lighter at 17.5 lbs. (My Azenis' are 21 lbs)

Either way, it's most desireable to be under 10 lbs per wheel, and that's easier to acheieve with a 15". I'd be running 15's myself if I didn't want my street set to be my Stock-class-legal rain tires.

[DaveNagy]

Quote:

I used to walk out to my previous truck grinning to hear the 360 exhale through the dual spintechs. I miss that truck just thinking about it!

Ah hah! Someone in this forum does have experiance with Spin Tech mufflers! Nifty. I'd like to hear more, although it might be better to do it in a new thread.

I wrote I nice long post asking about Spin Techs, but MINI2 decided to eat it instead of posting it. Sigh. If I get the chance I'll try it again. Basically, I like the Supertrapp solution, but fear it would be too loud for me. Was wondering if adding a SpinTech "upstream" might quiet things while not adding much weight or back-pressure. (You'd end up putting more discs on the 'trapp, but you might still be able to tune to the sweet spot.)

Just a thought.

Spin Tech's main page

Their product line (check out the second from the bottom!)

-Dave

[macncheese]

Yes I had a custom made to my application spintech on my truck. Hands down its the nicest sounding muffler on a V8 but I've never heard it on it 4 cylinder. I've spoken with them regarding installing it on the Cooper S and they recommended one of their standard mufflers but I dont have the finances to get the tubing bent for the rest of the exhaust at this time (grad school/christmas/high maintenance girlfriend ). Hopefully in the first quarter of next year.

--
Cheese

[Grinder]

So what size tires and wheels would you guys say would be the ultimate compromise between looks and performance?

[Garfield]

I think 16's look fine. It's a 12 foot long car for crying out loud...

[Chrono]

16's would be the middle i guess. you could go extremely light 17's etc etc. in the end it really boils down to what you want to do.

btw does anyone know if urethane or even delrin bushings are availible yet?

[TomM]

.

[Garfield]

You are absolutely wrong. Please, swap a 50lb wheel/tire package out for a 30lb wheel/tire package so you can prove it to yourself.
MiniMagnum is on this forum somewhere, ask him. He swaps from the stock 17's and runflats to a set of Kodiaks and Kumhos (a heavy tire). He'll tell you what he always tells me, that he can't believe the difference, it's definitely quicker and more manueverable.

By the way, you're exagerating the bending problem in the SSR's. Some have bent, but it's not that often. It's just that people spend a lot of money on them and expect them to be indestructable. ALL wheels will bend, depending on what you hit and what kind of weight you're putting on them (autocrosses are harder on wheels than any road style racing).

BTW, BBS's are notoriously soft and if think that THEY are better, you're obviously not reading enough.

Brian

[Grinder]

Today I had a chat with Christal at MINI of Sterling. Apparently they're getting a custom exhaust from some manufacturer but never mentioned the name. They're also looking into getting some ultra-high-flow cats and they've got an ECU that gives 23 hp at the wheels, but they're pretty sure they can get even more out of it, so her car's going back down to florida (where the work is done apparently), for some more testing. She also has some 8.5 lb 18" billet alluminum wheels, custom made for her to have a big rear offset to allow bigger breaks. 1,515 for a set (dont know if that includes rubber or not). I think i'm gonna go with some nice light wheels and see what Bryan turns up with his dyno testing.

[gowest]

Grinder, I think you must mean 18.5 lb. wheels as that's what a reasonably light 18" wheel might weigh. Few, very expensive, 15" forged wheels weigh as little as 8.5 lbs. and $1515 would be about right for the 18's without tires. Of course the wheels could weigh 8.5 kg or 18.7 lbs. I hope this doesn't reflect on the chip with 23 hp at the wheels.

[Grinder]

Christal definitely said 8.5 pounds...no joke. John there also was saying how these were the lightest wheels he'd ever seen and was saying how he could "lift them with just one finger." I emailed her for some more info....i'll let you know what she says.

[Grinder]

The wheels also weren't cast or forged, but "billeted." I hadn't heard of that so she filled me in...apparently it means carved from one solid hunk of aluminum.

[Garfield]

She's got a set of Kodiaks there that are Billet aluminum that my father just dropped off, but they're 16x6.5's and weigh 12lbs.

I know Christal, but I'm with Richard, I've never heard of an 8.5lb 18" wheel.

Now, Kodiak will be doing a 7071 aluminum (or something like that) where it will be twice the strength and therefore almost half the weight. We were discussing a 16x6.5 that might weigh about 8 or 9 pounds. But, I'm pretty sure Daryll isn't ready to do those yet.

I hope she's going to find a set of those in 15" for our FSP car

[TomM]

Quote:

Originally posted by Garfield
You are absolutely wrong. Please, swap a 50lb wheel/tire package out for a 30lb wheel/tire package so you can prove it to yourself.
MiniMagnum is on this forum somewhere, ask him. He swaps from the stock 17's and runflats to a set of Kodiaks and Kumhos (a heavy tire). He'll tell you what he always tells me, that he can't believe the difference, it's definitely quicker and more manueverable.

And those Kumho's aren't exactly hard tires I would guess, therefore he feels more of the tire difference then the weight difference. For instance, my 15's were pretty light. I never weighed them, but they were noticeably lighter than the BBS wheels I have which weight 17lbs without the tires and saw a huge improvement in the grip compared to the all-seasons I had on before. By no means and I saying that heavy tires are better than lighter ones. In fact I'd much rather have a lighter wheel then a heavy one idealy, but don't convince someone about some 15's which are super light which he may regret later because they don't look as good as the others he saw. I'd say your opinion goes a long way on this forum because you AutoX and you are knowledgable about cars etc. Your experience is certainly valued by others looking for advice.

Quote:

By the way, you're exagerating the bending problem in the SSR's. Some have bent, but it's not that often. It's just that people spend a lot of money on them and expect them to be indestructable. ALL wheels will bend, depending on what you hit and what kind of weight you're putting on them (autocrosses are harder on wheels than any road style racing).

Of course they are going to bend, just like my BBS wheels did (nailed a nice sized pothole on a MINI drive) but some lighter wheels are going to cost a hell of a lot more and be more suseptible to bending. I haven't ever heard of wheels bending just from the corner weight of a car. Thats new to me.

Quote:

BTW, BBS's are notoriously soft and if think that THEY are better, you're obviously not reading enough.

Yes, I have heard that they were soft but it seemed like the conversation was heading towards the lightest wheel Grinder could find and considering the SSR's look killer on the MINI these would be an attractive choice. I don't mean to be a hypocrite but I wish I had the SSR's, except I'd be paranoid about them after having paid an arm and a leg for them.

What I said about 'ignoring the weight' wasn't the right thing to say because obviously it does make a difference.

Tom

(Note, my wheels and tires were free from Yokohama and BBS so I didn't look around looking for the best wheel and tire.)

[TomM]

Yeah, they do sit out further than stock. I am pretty sure (99%) the offset is 37. I've had some rubbing in the back with two other people in the car but with just me in the car there isn't any rubbing.

Tom