MINI2

w3iwi · Jan 18th, 2003, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jlm
I haven't really been able to thrash it, but if anything so far, just the opposite....you have to hold on, but in a good way.

John -- when you report, also please comment on the performance with DSC on/off (or is it on/moron?). Doesn't the mechanical LSD "fight" the electronic response?

Tom

jlm · Jan 18th, 2003, 11:24 PM

i've been trying to condition myself to always turn off DSC. The lsd and dsc don't actually compete, they both try to augment the slipping situation, but differently. The problem with the DSC is that it will cut back engine torque (I assume by closing the throttle or retarding the spark) and apply braking, a sub-optimum method for the enthusiast. It is very difficult to even get into a wheelspin-under-power situation with DSC on. The LSD tends to prevent wheelspin at the get-go, mechanically, so it will delay the onset of DSC up to a point. The quaife works only when the inside wheel is not completely lifted, so you could get into a situation where the LSD is working up until the wheel lifts, and then suddenly the DSC takes over, cuts the throttle and applies braking and you plant your nose on the dash. I have experienced this mildly when testing out the lsd, but I was pushing it.

ModoMini · Jan 21st, 2003, 02:29 AM

Day two - Differential is installed and have commenced with the replacement of all the parts. Note; the Bearing part numbers listed before from Ford were incorrect when I went to install them. Will post here when I have the old differential home and can read the numbers off of it. Bearings were easily sourced from a local bearing shop though and they had them as stock items.
Spent most of the day trying to locate information on the torque settings for the gear that is attached to the new differential and the sealant needed to put the casing back together. Local Mini dealer was clueless.
Eventually Quaife gave me a torque setting of 45ftlbs though they too were unsure.
I took 3 people to wrestle the differential in and out of the Mini. Not a task for someone working alone without back-up! Also required removing the driver's side undercarraige mount that attaches to the bumper support. This will be obvious when you're under the car.
Tomorrow - Go back and double check all the bolts for torque on the underside and finish installing the rest of the equipment topside.
Then, ROADTEST!

dpayne1 · Jan 21st, 2003, 02:58 AM

Finally got a picture of my Quaife Install. You can see the green goop on the side of the Quaife is where the rubbing was occuring on the case. They had to machine some material from the Quaife and some from the inside of the case to make sure the fit was perfect with no rubbing or binding.

gowest · Jan 21st, 2003, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ModoMini

Spent most of the day trying to locate information on the torque settings for the gear that is attached to the new differential and the sealant needed to put the casing back together. Local Mini dealer was clueless.

Sealant is an anaerobic, got mine from NAPA made by Permatex.

gowest · Jan 21st, 2003, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ModoMini
Note; the Bearing part numbers listed before from Ford were incorrect when I went to install them. Will post here when I have the old differential home and can read the numbers off of it. Bearings were easily sourced from a local bearing shop though and they had them as stock items.

Should I now drop any mention of the Ford bearings in the first post as it looks like, by both of our experiences, they do not fit and may cause unnecessary confusion and expense or should I leave that info in encase they actually work on someones car?

Part number from my factory bearings, LM501349 as now mentioned in edited first post.

CSDan · Jan 21st, 2003, 03:10 PM

Just want to reitterate that you pioneers are doing a great job--thatnks for ALL the info and hope to join you next year.

Daniel

MiniG · Jan 23rd, 2003, 07:30 AM

I don't understand something though, doesn't Quaife supply the necessary bearings and why is machining needed? Will they rev. the part so that later version will fit?
Is this a LSD from a different car or a "generic fit" one?
Again, great reports, I thank you for the help this is now, informationally and what it will be when I go to do it myself!
BCNU - G

bigbaddaboom · Jan 23rd, 2003, 08:37 AM

any of you LSD guys getting bad torque steer or overly lively steering (to the point of being very skittish) on badly surfaced roads?

dpayne1 · Jan 23rd, 2003, 11:32 AM

The MCS has identical Quaife part numbers with Ford Focus SVT, because both use the Getrag 6 speed transmission. I'm speculating here, but that could be the reason that the fit is not quite right on the MCS case -- I think the quaife for the Focus SVT was available first. The fit with tranny internals is perfect. I know that two of us have reported that machining was needed to prevent binding and rubbing w/the case.

On the torque steer question. The steering is more lively but I wouldn't call it skittish. I am more aware of the LSD on rougher surfaces but it is not skittish.

Where I really notice the Quaife is on corners

gowest · Jan 23rd, 2003, 01:42 PM

I ran my first autocross with the Quaife last weekend. The course had 4 first gear turns and I can tell you that when pulling out of each of these turns with my foot to the floor in first that the steering is a handful! I didn't even consider cutting the cones close for fear of taking them out but boy does the Quaife work, no wheel spin out of any of the 180's and they were all basically connected by straights. My co-driver beat me by 4/10's and he was only about 3/10's off FTD to a 450 hp Cobra.

ModoMini · Jan 23rd, 2003, 01:59 PM

Mine did require some machining on the interior housing but not much. None on the LSD itself.
Handling is definitely more lively though not what I would consider skittish. Uneven surfaces let you know when the LSD is working at keeping traction. You definitly want to hang on when accelerating out of corners since whichever way the front wheels are turned is the way you "are" going to go!

My Mini hits the track at Sebring this weekend for some full speed testing.

CSDan · Jan 23rd, 2003, 03:55 PM

You guys are making me DROOOOOOL with anticipation of getting one--unfortunatley it'll have to wait for next year

Keep the reports coming

Daniel

minimc · Jan 23rd, 2003, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dpayne1
The MCS has identical Quaife part numbers with Ford Focus SVT, because both use the Getrag 6 speed transmission.

This is exactly what is troubling me - That the same tranny is used, but one fits fine while the other does not. Why & how can there be so much difference in tolerance from one to the next? AND is the difference in the Quaife, the Getrag or both? Seems like awfully loose tolerances somewhere.

I’m betting that Ford doesn’t test-fit, and machine to tolerance as needed!

What gives?

HI-MINI · Jan 24th, 2003, 05:10 AM

Sounds like a good thing to get. What about the Phantom Grip Limited Slip for about $400? Hope someone installs one and races someone with the Quaife. Would like to know if the Phantom Grip is even worth getting.

minime s · May 12th, 2003, 01:30 AM

Drove JLM's car at the drag strip yesterday. The Quaiffe is unreal.
Getting mine this week.

Grinder · May 12th, 2003, 10:35 AM

I also drove two different Quaifed MINIs today, and that LSD made a huge difference. If it weren't so ****ing expensive I'd loooove to get one for my car.

How much have you guys been paying for installation??

ModoMini · May 12th, 2003, 11:16 AM

$60 - for install. Did it myself over 4 days but had to tip some mechanics to help me get it out of the engine bay.
It's good to know friends who own shops though!

Dawing · Oct 6th, 2003, 09:19 PM

Hey GOWEST . How did your diff hold up this season.Hows the fluid look ? Whats it like driving to and from the autox events ?
What class do you run with all of your mods.

Never coast...never lift !

PYUGALA · Oct 10th, 2003, 07:16 AM

I emailed Quaife Engineering yesterday and here is the answer:

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your enquiry.

A/A+ Series Mini - QDF14K4 @ ฃ450 GBP + Delivery

or

6 Speed Getrag (BMW Mini) - QDF38Z1M @ ฃ495 GBP + Delivery

Neither of the above Quaife ATB Differentials require any modifications to the housing before fitting. It is worth replacing the bearings when replacing the diff, but we do not supply those, as it is easier (and cheaper) for you to buy them locally.

Should you have any further questions, please contact us

Kind Regards

Sales@Quaife

Jan 18th, 2003, 06:41 PM	#41
w3iwi MINI2 Regular Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Clarksville MD Local Time: 05:18 PM Posts: 79 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by jlm I haven't really been able to thrash it, but if anything so far, just the opposite....you have to hold on, but in a good way. John -- when you report, also please comment on the performance with DSC on/off (or is it on/moron?). Doesn't the mechanical LSD "fight" the electronic response? Tom Tom Clark -- Chili Red 2002 MCS in Clarksville, MD

Jan 18th, 2003, 11:24 PM	#42 (permalink)
jlm MINI2 Master Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: ny,ny Local Time: 04:18 PM Posts: 1,072 Offline	i've been trying to condition myself to always turn off DSC. The lsd and dsc don't actually compete, they both try to augment the slipping situation, but differently. The problem with the DSC is that it will cut back engine torque (I assume by closing the throttle or retarding the spark) and apply braking, a sub-optimum method for the enthusiast. It is very difficult to even get into a wheelspin-under-power situation with DSC on. The LSD tends to prevent wheelspin at the get-go, mechanically, so it will delay the onset of DSC up to a point. The quaife works only when the inside wheel is not completely lifted, so you could get into a situation where the LSD is working up until the wheel lifts, and then suddenly the DSC takes over, cuts the throttle and applies braking and you plant your nose on the dash. I have experienced this mildly when testing out the lsd, but I was pushing it. john

Jan 21st, 2003, 02:29 AM	#43 (permalink)
ModoMini MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Fort Lauderdale Local Time: 04:18 PM Posts: 267 Offline	Day two - Differential is installed and have commenced with the replacement of all the parts. Note; the Bearing part numbers listed before from Ford were incorrect when I went to install them. Will post here when I have the old differential home and can read the numbers off of it. Bearings were easily sourced from a local bearing shop though and they had them as stock items. Spent most of the day trying to locate information on the torque settings for the gear that is attached to the new differential and the sealant needed to put the casing back together. Local Mini dealer was clueless. Eventually Quaife gave me a torque setting of 45ftlbs though they too were unsure. I took 3 people to wrestle the differential in and out of the Mini. Not a task for someone working alone without back-up! Also required removing the driver's side undercarraige mount that attaches to the bumper support. This will be obvious when you're under the car. Tomorrow - Go back and double check all the bolts for torque on the underside and finish installing the rest of the equipment topside. Then, ROADTEST! Mark -'04 Cooper S MC40

Jan 21st, 2003, 02:58 AM	#44 (permalink)
dpayne1 MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Northern VA Local Time: 04:18 PM Posts: 86 Offline	Quaife Install Picture Finally got a picture of my Quaife Install. You can see the green goop on the side of the Quaife is where the rubbing was occuring on the case. They had to machine some material from the Quaife and some from the inside of the case to make sure the fit was perfect with no rubbing or binding.

Jan 21st, 2003, 03:35 AM	#45 (permalink)
gowest MINI2 Regular Join Date: May 2002 Location: Va. Local Time: 05:18 PM Posts: 208 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by ModoMini Spent most of the day trying to locate information on the torque settings for the gear that is attached to the new differential and the sealant needed to put the casing back together. Local Mini dealer was clueless. Sealant is an anaerobic, got mine from NAPA made by Permatex. 2001 & 2002 SCCA, STS Pro Solo National Champion. 2003 SCCA, Solo2 Nationals 8th, co-driver (Courtney) 2nd in 03 & 04 2003 JCW 210, London Stainless Headers, custom cat back with 5" SuperTrapp, 15x7.5 SSR's and 16x8 ce28n's, Quaife, KW Comp 2 Ways

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Jan 21st, 2003, 01:43 PM	#46 (permalink)
gowest MINI2 Regular Join Date: May 2002 Location: Va. Local Time: 05:18 PM Posts: 208 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by ModoMini Note; the Bearing part numbers listed before from Ford were incorrect when I went to install them. Will post here when I have the old differential home and can read the numbers off of it. Bearings were easily sourced from a local bearing shop though and they had them as stock items. Should I now drop any mention of the Ford bearings in the first post as it looks like, by both of our experiences, they do not fit and may cause unnecessary confusion and expense or should I leave that info in encase they actually work on someones car? Part number from my factory bearings, LM501349 as now mentioned in edited first post. 2001 & 2002 SCCA, STS Pro Solo National Champion. 2003 SCCA, Solo2 Nationals 8th, co-driver (Courtney) 2nd in 03 & 04 2003 JCW 210, London Stainless Headers, custom cat back with 5" SuperTrapp, 15x7.5 SSR's and 16x8 ce28n's, Quaife, KW Comp 2 Ways

Jan 21st, 2003, 03:10 PM	#47 (permalink)
CSDan MINI2 Regular Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Katonah NY, USA Local Time: 04:18 PM Posts: 224 Offline	Just want to reitterate that you pioneers are doing a great job--thatnks for ALL the info and hope to join you next year. Daniel Cooper S: Now new and improved with Helix short shifter, Ghetto K&N HAI, Rota Circuit 8's w/ T1'S Proxies/Kosei K1 racing wheels with Falken Azenis(for Auto-X/Trackday), and H-sport springs. UUC rear sway waiting to install

Jan 23rd, 2003, 07:30 AM	#48 (permalink)
MiniG Proud MINI2 Sponsor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Southern California Local Time: 01:18 PM Posts: 382 Offline	Great reports guys! I don't understand something though, doesn't Quaife supply the necessary bearings and why is machining needed? Will they rev. the part so that later version will fit? Is this a LSD from a different car or a "generic fit" one? Again, great reports, I thank you for the help this is now, informationally and what it will be when I go to do it myself! BCNU - G

Jan 23rd, 2003, 08:37 AM	#49 (permalink)
bigbaddaboom MINI2 Master Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Brighton, UK Local Time: 10:18 PM Posts: 1,291 Offline	any of you LSD guys getting bad torque steer or overly lively steering (to the point of being very skittish) on badly surfaced roads?

Jan 23rd, 2003, 11:32 AM	#50 (permalink)
dpayne1 MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Northern VA Local Time: 04:18 PM Posts: 86 Offline	The MCS has identical Quaife part numbers with Ford Focus SVT, because both use the Getrag 6 speed transmission. I'm speculating here, but that could be the reason that the fit is not quite right on the MCS case -- I think the quaife for the Focus SVT was available first. The fit with tranny internals is perfect. I know that two of us have reported that machining was needed to prevent binding and rubbing w/the case. On the torque steer question. The steering is more lively but I wouldn't call it skittish. I am more aware of the LSD on rougher surfaces but it is not skittish. Where I really notice the Quaife is on corners

Jan 23rd, 2003, 01:42 PM	#51 (permalink)
gowest MINI2 Regular Join Date: May 2002 Location: Va. Local Time: 05:18 PM Posts: 208 Offline	I ran my first autocross with the Quaife last weekend. The course had 4 first gear turns and I can tell you that when pulling out of each of these turns with my foot to the floor in first that the steering is a handful! I didn't even consider cutting the cones close for fear of taking them out but boy does the Quaife work, no wheel spin out of any of the 180's and they were all basically connected by straights. My co-driver beat me by 4/10's and he was only about 3/10's off FTD to a 450 hp Cobra. 2001 & 2002 SCCA, STS Pro Solo National Champion. 2003 SCCA, Solo2 Nationals 8th, co-driver (Courtney) 2nd in 03 & 04 2003 JCW 210, London Stainless Headers, custom cat back with 5" SuperTrapp, 15x7.5 SSR's and 16x8 ce28n's, Quaife, KW Comp 2 Ways

Jan 23rd, 2003, 01:59 PM	#52 (permalink)
ModoMini MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Fort Lauderdale Local Time: 04:18 PM Posts: 267 Offline	Mine did require some machining on the interior housing but not much. None on the LSD itself. Handling is definitely more lively though not what I would consider skittish. Uneven surfaces let you know when the LSD is working at keeping traction. You definitly want to hang on when accelerating out of corners since whichever way the front wheels are turned is the way you "are" going to go! My Mini hits the track at Sebring this weekend for some full speed testing. Mark -'04 Cooper S MC40

Jan 23rd, 2003, 03:55 PM	#53 (permalink)
CSDan MINI2 Regular Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Katonah NY, USA Local Time: 04:18 PM Posts: 224 Offline	You guys are making me DROOOOOOL with anticipation of getting one--unfortunatley it'll have to wait for next year Keep the reports coming Daniel Cooper S: Now new and improved with Helix short shifter, Ghetto K&N HAI, Rota Circuit 8's w/ T1'S Proxies/Kosei K1 racing wheels with Falken Azenis(for Auto-X/Trackday), and H-sport springs. UUC rear sway waiting to install

Jan 23rd, 2003, 07:18 PM	#54 (permalink)
minimc MINI2 Senior My Classifieds Join Date: Feb 2002 Local Time: 04:18 PM Posts: 457 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by dpayne1 The MCS has identical Quaife part numbers with Ford Focus SVT, because both use the Getrag 6 speed transmission. This is exactly what is troubling me - That the same tranny is used, but one fits fine while the other does not. Why & how can there be so much difference in tolerance from one to the next? AND is the difference in the Quaife, the Getrag or both? Seems like awfully loose tolerances somewhere. I’m betting that Ford doesn’t test-fit, and machine to tolerance as needed! What gives?

May 12th, 2003, 01:30 AM	#56 (permalink)
minime s M7SPEED SPONSORED MINI ! Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Dix Hills,New York Local Time: 05:18 PM Posts: 631 Offline	Drove JLM's car at the drag strip yesterday. The Quaiffe is unreal. Getting mine this week. 1/4 mile 13.07 @109mph...258 wheel horsepower, 03 cooper"S" Pure Silver,18" Kahn's,Aero Kit,Nitrous Express NOS kit(50 shot),Evotech Computer upgrade,ALTA intake,short shifter,Magnaflow exhaust,header,pulley upgrade,cam,H&R springs,quaife,MSD Coil a

Jan 24th, 2003, 05:10 AM	#55 (permalink)
HI-MINI MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Local Time: 09:18 PM Posts: 47 Offline	Sounds like a good thing to get. What about the Phantom Grip Limited Slip for about $400? Hope someone installs one and races someone with the Quaife. Would like to know if the Phantom Grip is even worth getting.

May 12th, 2003, 10:35 AM	#57 (permalink)
Grinder Addict Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Northern VA. Local Time: 04:18 PM Posts: 1,118 Offline	I also drove two different Quaifed MINIs today, and that LSD made a huge difference. If it weren't so ****ing expensive I'd loooove to get one for my car. How much have you guys been paying for installation?? Whatever.

May 12th, 2003, 11:16 AM	#58 (permalink)
ModoMini MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Fort Lauderdale Local Time: 04:18 PM Posts: 267 Offline	$60 - for install. Did it myself over 4 days but had to tip some mechanics to help me get it out of the engine bay. It's good to know friends who own shops though! Mark -'04 Cooper S MC40

Oct 6th, 2003, 09:19 PM	#59 (permalink)
Dawing MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Midwest Local Time: 04:18 PM Posts: 7 Offline	Hey GOWEST . How did your diff hold up this season.Hows the fluid look ? Whats it like driving to and from the autox events ? What class do you run with all of your mods. Never coast...never lift ! 2003 JCW CS Red/Black,17x7 Team Dynamics Pro Racing 1 wheels,225/45 Goodyear Eagle F1 tires,MiniMania 19mm adjustible rear sway bar,schroth 4way belts,passport G-Meter performance computer,Carbotech Panther PXP front Brake Pads,Super Blue brake fluid.

Oct 10th, 2003, 07:16 AM	#60 (permalink)
PYUGALA MINI2 Regular Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bkk Local Time: 04:18 AM Posts: 159 Offline	I emailed Quaife Engineering yesterday and here is the answer: Dear Sir, Thank you for your enquiry. A/A+ Series Mini - QDF14K4 @ ฃ450 GBP + Delivery or 6 Speed Getrag (BMW Mini) - QDF38Z1M @ ฃ495 GBP + Delivery Neither of the above Quaife ATB Differentials require any modifications to the housing before fitting. It is worth replacing the bearings when replacing the diff, but we do not supply those, as it is easier (and cheaper) for you to buy them locally. Should you have any further questions, please contact us Kind Regards Sales@Quaife

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