MINI2

Boo · Jan 30th, 2003, 11:17 AM

Maybe we should start asking this....
Keeping the car stock to the point that it is a 1.6lt 4 cylinder, supercharged front wheel drive, how much does it cost to strengthen an engine so that it can take more horspower??
How far can we go for how much??
Anyone got any ideas??

If we had the money, what would be on the curve that we know about called the law of diminishing returns..

And include the whole package such as handling...

Personally, i would like to know....

Tonyt3 · Jan 30th, 2003, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boo
Maybe we should start asking this....
Keeping the car stock to the point that it is a 1.6lt 4 cylinder, supercharged front wheel drive, how much does it cost to strengthen an engine so that it can take more horspower??
How far can we go for how much??
Anyone got any ideas??

If we had the money, what would be on the curve that we know about called the law of diminishing returns..

And include the whole package such as handling...

Personally, i would like to know....

Well, I suppose you could compare it to the WRX rally cars... they are basically standard 2.0 litre family cars, the manufacturers then spend a heap of money on them, turn them into what, 500bhp motors? Each costs about £400,000 apparantly, but they recoupe the money by selling drab versions with a spoiler on to Joe Bloggs and his collegues... it must be worth it in the end. How many Subaru's would we we see on the road if it wasn't for the Rally version? Not that many I think...

Now if BMW was into Rally sport, we might see what could theoretically be done, although I don't think we will.

As for private converters, I guess spending more than about £3498 on a conversion would be asking too much. I guess Cooper Garages offering a 200bhp kit for £3499 is a mistake then.?!

I reckon we will soon see 240bhp. Anymore than that would probably need an engine transplant, and I don't know if there is a suitable engine out there small enough to be worth it....I don't suppose Mazda's new rotary engine from the RX8 would fit, would it?

Boo · Jan 30th, 2003, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony*t3

I reckon we will soon see 240bhp. Anymore than that would probably need an engine transplant, and I don't know if there is a suitable engine out there small enough to be worth it....

Cool, so you say 240bhp is doable...
what was that Montoya car again and how much did it cost??

Tonyt3 · Jan 30th, 2003, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boo
Cool, so you say 240bhp is doable...
what was that Montoya car again and how much did it cost??

Well the Montoya car, if it has been built, is a one off publicity stunt, so it would have to absorb all the development costs, so its probably going to be at least £80k I would think, although I have no actual info on it... However, I am sure that would be offset against publicity gais from Williams/Montoyas sponsers.

At the end of the day though, as you pointed out, there is the law of diminishing returns. Whats the point on spending huge amounts of money on a Lambo for instance, when you could spend a fraction of the cost and get a car which will probably beat it in a race across country?

I think 240 bhp will be doable, although I myself don't know exactly how... off course, you could strap Nitrous Oxide on and get a one off kick in the butt bhp boost. Again though, whats the point? Drag racing is for professinals and idiots...

Most of us won't use the full potential of our MCS's as it is, and then only when we feel safe to do so. And lets face it, most of us love our little mini's, and would hate to see a plume of smoke eminating from the bonnet scoop - although I did get scared the first time I saw steam coming out of it!!!!!

linux78 · Jan 30th, 2003, 01:45 PM

I've heard some rumors of a rally car based on the MINI, unfortunately I think the plan was to pull out the engine and putting the m3 engine in. Since the MINI is made by BMW, they can put in any BMW engine in. I believe that most companies do this and the cost of making a rally car far exceeds that of what most people would be willing to shell out to make their cars faster.

The engine should be able to take most modifications. Some that you need to be wary of is Nitros and boring the engine out. Both of which will void your warantee. A new chip, something that is a very common modification, should be ok. If your dealership finds it, it can void your warantee if it is found to be at fault but most mechanics won't see it unless they need to access it to either replace it or change the programming on it.
-Chris

Tonyt3 · Jan 30th, 2003, 02:41 PM

The problem with chucking an M3 engine into a mini rally car is that you cannot do this and still take part in the World Rally Championship. All cars entered in this need to meet strict honologation rules. Thats why they all use the same basic engine as that which goes in the road car. This engine can be extremly modified and developed, but it must be based on the original. The only way around this would be to build a Mini with an M3 engine installed and sell it to the general public. I don't know how many you need to sell, but I think it is in its thousands..... There are many rules that I think makes it impossible for the mini to take part in WRC rallying...

You could build an M3-Mini for amature or non-regulated rallying, but there wouldn't be any money in it, so the manufacturer won't do it.

You can't even enter the Mini in the Touring Car championships either, as I believe that these all need to be 4 door saloon cars...

kidtexas · Jan 30th, 2003, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony*t3
The only way around this would be to build a Mini with an M3 engine installed and sell it to the general public. I don't know how many you need to sell, but I think it is in its thousands..... There are many rules that I think makes it impossible for the mini to take part in WRC rallying...

And you wouldn't want to buy an M3 Mini? ****. If you figure the M3 Mini would cost somewhere between a Mini and an M3, that would be a hell of car. Fast too

I could imagine the lines for a car like that.

linux78 · Jan 30th, 2003, 08:06 PM

Ok, sorry it wasn't a rally car, just ar regular race car: http://www.conceptcarz.com/folder/ve...sp?car_id=6238
-Chris

Tonyt3 · Jan 31st, 2003, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kidtexas
And you wouldn't want to buy an M3 Mini? ****. If you figure the M3 Mini would cost somewhere between a Mini and an M3, that would be a hell of car. Fast too I could imagine the lines for a car like that.

Mmmmm, 340bhp mini for around £30,000? I would love to have a go in one, but no, I don't think I would buy one. I reckon a 240bhp mini would be all you could ever need....

I would have loved it if Alpina had gone ahead with the mini. Do we know if its definetly a dead project?

Paul · Jan 31st, 2003, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony*t3

I would have loved it if Alpina had gone ahead with the mini. Do we know if its definetly a dead project?

Despite all magazine lead rumours, 'sources' told me it was never a go-er in the first place.

Which is a shame.

Still, we live in hope.

Bilbo Baggins · Feb 2nd, 2003, 02:31 PM

Youuus guys gotta be on drugs to want more Hp without adding a Limited Slip Differential. IMO. Humble or otherwise.

Driving around this winter on snowy, slushy, wet, or sandy roads with just the stock MCS has had me wishing for more traction when hustling out of corners or attacking hills.

Wish the factory offered LSD as an option. Maybe in the future. When and if they do I'll be first in line for a new MCS.

CT MINI · Feb 4th, 2003, 04:08 PM

WRC cars can displace no more than 2.0L under FIA regs, so a MINI with an M3 motor would be not much more than a stunt. I'd rather tune mine than transplant anyway. Who wants to get rid of a supercharger?

Jan 30th, 2003, 11:17 AM	#1
Boo Sponsor and Widget Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Nth Beaches, Sydney Local Time: 05:45 AM Posts: 1,735 Offline	How far can you go, and how much does it cost ? Maybe we should start asking this.... Keeping the car stock to the point that it is a 1.6lt 4 cylinder, supercharged front wheel drive, how much does it cost to strengthen an engine so that it can take more horspower?? How far can we go for how much?? Anyone got any ideas?? If we had the money, what would be on the curve that we know about called the law of diminishing returns.. And include the whole package such as handling... Personally, i would like to know.... The original SWORKS

Jan 30th, 2003, 11:33 AM	#2 (permalink)
Tonyt3 Track addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hants Local Time: 08:45 PM Posts: 6,000 Offline	Re: How far can you go, and how much does it cost ? Quote: Originally posted by Boo Maybe we should start asking this.... Keeping the car stock to the point that it is a 1.6lt 4 cylinder, supercharged front wheel drive, how much does it cost to strengthen an engine so that it can take more horspower?? How far can we go for how much?? Anyone got any ideas?? If we had the money, what would be on the curve that we know about called the law of diminishing returns.. And include the whole package such as handling... Personally, i would like to know.... Well, I suppose you could compare it to the WRX rally cars... they are basically standard 2.0 litre family cars, the manufacturers then spend a heap of money on them, turn them into what, 500bhp motors? Each costs about £400,000 apparantly, but they recoupe the money by selling drab versions with a spoiler on to Joe Bloggs and his collegues... it must be worth it in the end. How many Subaru's would we we see on the road if it wasn't for the Rally version? Not that many I think... Now if BMW was into Rally sport, we might see what could theoretically be done, although I don't think we will. As for private converters, I guess spending more than about £3498 on a conversion would be asking too much. I guess Cooper Garages offering a 200bhp kit for £3499 is a mistake then.?! I reckon we will soon see 240bhp. Anymore than that would probably need an engine transplant, and I don't know if there is a suitable engine out there small enough to be worth it....I don't suppose Mazda's new rotary engine from the RX8 would fit, would it?

Jan 30th, 2003, 11:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
Boo Sponsor and Widget Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Nth Beaches, Sydney Local Time: 05:45 AM Posts: 1,735 Offline	Re: Re: How far can you go, and how much does it cost ? Quote: Originally posted by Tonyt3* I reckon we will soon see 240bhp. Anymore than that would probably need an engine transplant, and I don't know if there is a suitable engine out there small enough to be worth it.... Cool, so you say 240bhp is doable... what was that Montoya car again and how much did it cost?? The original SWORKS

Jan 30th, 2003, 12:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
Tonyt3 Track addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hants Local Time: 08:45 PM Posts: 6,000 Offline	Re: Re: Re: How far can you go, and how much does it cost ? Quote: Originally posted by Boo Cool, so you say 240bhp is doable... what was that Montoya car again and how much did it cost?? Well the Montoya car, if it has been built, is a one off publicity stunt, so it would have to absorb all the development costs, so its probably going to be at least £80k I would think, although I have no actual info on it... However, I am sure that would be offset against publicity gais from Williams/Montoyas sponsers. At the end of the day though, as you pointed out, there is the law of diminishing returns. Whats the point on spending huge amounts of money on a Lambo for instance, when you could spend a fraction of the cost and get a car which will probably beat it in a race across country? I think 240 bhp will be doable, although I myself don't know exactly how... off course, you could strap Nitrous Oxide on and get a one off kick in the butt bhp boost. Again though, whats the point? Drag racing is for professinals and idiots... Most of us won't use the full potential of our MCS's as it is, and then only when we feel safe to do so. And lets face it, most of us love our little mini's, and would hate to see a plume of smoke eminating from the bonnet scoop - although I did get scared the first time I saw steam coming out of it!!!!!

Jan 30th, 2003, 07:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
kidtexas MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Aug 2002 Local Time: 02:45 PM Posts: 47 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by Tonyt3* The only way around this would be to build a Mini with an M3 engine installed and sell it to the general public. I don't know how many you need to sell, but I think it is in its thousands..... There are many rules that I think makes it impossible for the mini to take part in WRC rallying... And you wouldn't want to buy an M3 Mini? ****. If you figure the M3 Mini would cost somewhere between a Mini and an M3, that would be a hell of car. Fast too I could imagine the lines for a car like that. AIM: kidtexas1

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Jan 30th, 2003, 01:45 PM	#5 (permalink)
linux78 MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Jan 2003 Local Time: 02:45 PM Posts: 41 Offline	I've heard some rumors of a rally car based on the MINI, unfortunately I think the plan was to pull out the engine and putting the m3 engine in. Since the MINI is made by BMW, they can put in any BMW engine in. I believe that most companies do this and the cost of making a rally car far exceeds that of what most people would be willing to shell out to make their cars faster. The engine should be able to take most modifications. Some that you need to be wary of is Nitros and boring the engine out. Both of which will void your warantee. A new chip, something that is a very common modification, should be ok. If your dealership finds it, it can void your warantee if it is found to be at fault but most mechanics won't see it unless they need to access it to either replace it or change the programming on it. -Chris

Jan 30th, 2003, 02:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
Tonyt3 Track addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hants Local Time: 08:45 PM Posts: 6,000 Offline	The problem with chucking an M3 engine into a mini rally car is that you cannot do this and still take part in the World Rally Championship. All cars entered in this need to meet strict honologation rules. Thats why they all use the same basic engine as that which goes in the road car. This engine can be extremly modified and developed, but it must be based on the original. The only way around this would be to build a Mini with an M3 engine installed and sell it to the general public. I don't know how many you need to sell, but I think it is in its thousands..... There are many rules that I think makes it impossible for the mini to take part in WRC rallying... You could build an M3-Mini for amature or non-regulated rallying, but there wouldn't be any money in it, so the manufacturer won't do it. You can't even enter the Mini in the Touring Car championships either, as I believe that these all need to be 4 door saloon cars...

Jan 30th, 2003, 08:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
linux78 MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Jan 2003 Local Time: 02:45 PM Posts: 41 Offline	Ok, sorry it wasn't a rally car, just ar regular race car: http://www.conceptcarz.com/folder/ve...sp?car_id=6238 -Chris

Jan 31st, 2003, 08:41 AM	#9 (permalink)
Tonyt3 Track addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hants Local Time: 08:45 PM Posts: 6,000 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by kidtexas And you wouldn't want to buy an M3 Mini? ****. If you figure the M3 Mini would cost somewhere between a Mini and an M3, that would be a hell of car. Fast too I could imagine the lines for a car like that. Mmmmm, 340bhp mini for around £30,000? I would love to have a go in one, but no, I don't think I would buy one. I reckon a 240bhp mini would be all you could ever need.... I would have loved it if Alpina had gone ahead with the mini. Do we know if its definetly a dead project?

Jan 31st, 2003, 08:58 AM	#10 (permalink)
Paul Trained Monkey My Classifieds Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Bedfordshire Local Time: 08:45 PM Posts: 40,014 Online	Quote: Originally posted by Tonyt3* I would have loved it if Alpina had gone ahead with the mini. Do we know if its definetly a dead project? Despite all magazine lead rumours, 'sources' told me it was never a go-er in the first place. Which is a shame. Still, we live in hope. There aint no party like my nana's tea party

Feb 2nd, 2003, 02:31 PM	#11 (permalink)
Bilbo Baggins MINI2 Master Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Shire, Middle Earth Local Time: 03:45 PM Posts: 8,852 Offline	More Hp? Not without LSD! Youuus guys gotta be on drugs to want more Hp without adding a Limited Slip Differential. IMO. Humble or otherwise. Driving around this winter on snowy, slushy, wet, or sandy roads with just the stock MCS has had me wishing for more traction when hustling out of corners or attacking hills. Wish the factory offered LSD as an option. Maybe in the future. When and if they do I'll be first in line for a new MCS. Motor on, Dudes and Dudettes!!! '06 MCS SB/S '02 MCS DS/W (retired)

Feb 4th, 2003, 04:08 PM	#12 (permalink)
CT MINI MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Connecticut, U.S.A. Local Time: 02:45 PM Posts: 115 Offline	WRC cars can displace no more than 2.0L under FIA regs, so a MINI with an M3 motor would be not much more than a stunt. I'd rather tune mine than transplant anyway. Who wants to get rid of a supercharger? MCS Pure Silver/Black Illegitimi non carborundum.

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