MINI2

rusty · Jun 3rd, 2003, 06:04 PM

At the moment i'm really getting the bug to put my order in for my Cooper S very soon. I'm sure you're all the same as me and you all want the upgraded version i.e JCW or Hartge etc. At the moment if I was going to have one i'd have the Hartge because of the price and the reviews i've read, but the JCW one because of the no quibbles warrenty.

I know that mini dealers won't budge on giving you anything but has anyone tried to push it and say you want the JCW package at a reduced cost or you'll send it up to Birds and have the Hartge upgrade. Worth a try?

Fullupo · Jun 3rd, 2003, 06:08 PM

im doubtful but anythings worth a try, go for it! and let us know how u get on and ill follow suit!

rusty · Jun 3rd, 2003, 06:18 PM

Will do matey

MichaelK · Jun 3rd, 2003, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rusty
At the moment if I was going to have one i'd have the Hartge because of the price and the reviews i've read, but the JCW one because of the no quibbles warrenty.

Umm what reviews have you been reading ?

Try: Evo, Car, Autocar and CCR(something like that) all favour the JCW.

Best advice is to take both for a test drive.

Cheers

Michael

rusty · Jun 3rd, 2003, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MichaelK
Umm what reviews have you been reading ?

Try: Evo, Car, Autocar and CCR(something like that) all favour the JCW.

Best advice is to take both for a test drive.

Cheers

Michael

Think that is what i'll have to do. But then money does come in to it which is a bugger! Otherwise I would do the JCW's conversion I think.

rusty · Jun 3rd, 2003, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Max
Rusty, there are a few threads on JCW vs the others under performance and tuning. Try a search on JCW or look at this thread:

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=29880

Read through the posts to get an impression.

I would say If you can afford the JCW get it (read my signature)

good luck..

Appreciate the advise!! Cheers Matey

Root Ginger · Jun 3rd, 2003, 08:44 PM

Have to say, having driven both the Hartge and the S Works, the Hartge is the way to go. And I own a Cooper Works. What does that tell you?

rusty · Jun 3rd, 2003, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ginge
Have to say, having driven both the Hartge and the S Works, the Hartge is the way to go. And I own a Cooper Works. What does that tell you?

Thanks for the advise mate! Do you wish you hadn't of had the Cooper works kit? I think there is only a 0.3 difference between a standard cooper and a works cooper. Any good points?

mhoutman · Jun 3rd, 2003, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Max
I would say If you can afford the JCW get it (read my signature)

Max, what happened to you ?;-)

James Haigh · Jun 3rd, 2003, 11:13 PM

I sat down and spoke to my dealer before having the Hartge conversion done and they were fine with it. However thay offered to fit me the JCW kit for £3,400 including everything. Still too much which is why I went with Hartge.

rasp · Jun 4th, 2003, 12:49 AM

Hi

JCW is said to be more refined but stuff the refinement its the sheer grunt of the Hartge that puts it tops all day long! Oh and keep the 2 grand spare in your pocket!
My 2c worth.

Rasp

MAXIM · Jun 4th, 2003, 03:02 AM

waiting lists are so long you got no chance of getting a reduction from your dealer.they make only 150 kits per at the moment for worldwide distribution.john coopers garage are currently taking bookings for the middle of august.that might tell you something how popular the jcw conversion is...

QQQ · Jun 4th, 2003, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MAXIM
waiting lists are so long you got no chance of getting a reduction from your dealer.they make only 150 kits per at the moment for worldwide distribution.john coopers garage are currently taking bookings for the middle of august.that might tell you something how popular the jcw conversion is...

Hi MAXIM,

See you got the Works kit, congrats mate

Gonna keep the Magnaflow exhaust with it or are you staying with the JCW exhaust. I'm sure the MF will give you some extra BHP's?

Have fun braking it in mate and hope to cu soon at some MINI meeting

take care

Root Ginger · Jun 4th, 2003, 01:59 PM

Rusty,

Don't really regret getting the Works kit. It is good, but maybe a bit expensive now, considering an S is only a few hundred quid more. However at the time I had my car there was no S and there was no tuning available either.

As for good points. Noise!!! With the JCW open induction system it is rather loud. This was one of the disappointments with the S Works. Sounds like a hair dryer. Too much supercharger and not enough exhaust and induction.

The Hartge version is much noisier and really burbles when you lift off the throttle. Sounds like the performance car it is. As well as this it pulls harder and faster than the Works and it's cheaper.

Warranty issues aren't a problem. The only bits that aren't covered, are those they change. The rest is still covered by BMW's own warranty. In fact if you look under the bonnet of a Hartge there is no way of telling it's not standard and it can still be serviced by BMW.

The Hartge bits have a 12 month warranty.

My own car will be getting a turbo and nitrous in the future so I'll soon be zooming past everyones S anyway.

bigbaddaboom · Jun 4th, 2003, 02:44 PM

I don't agree, while the Works S doesn't sound as loud in the cabin as the Works Cooper, outside the sound of the exhaust on a flyby at full throttle is loud, much louder than the standard car. Considering that the Hartge has the same exhaust as the standard car I can't see how it can be louder (other than perhaps the supercharger whine). The only way I can see the Hartge car being 'as loud' as the Works S is if it has a new exhaust added (possibly the funky four port which looks great). But this ups the price of the overall kit, admittedly not as high as the JCW kit but still more expensive than the base price, if noise is all you want.

I would also disagree that the Hartge car pulls any better than the JCW kit, in fact I'd probably go so far and say that all the 200 bhp conversions are virtually the same for performance. In my opinion you pay your money and take your choice.

MAXIM · Jun 5th, 2003, 01:25 AM

hi QQQ i have sold the magnaflow, just sticking to the complete jcw set up,and i have had an aero kit fitted as well, hope to see you again soon...

Root Ginger · Jun 5th, 2003, 01:43 PM

Yeah your right bigbaddaboom it did have the M3 style exhaust which probably added to the noise. I want to know what the Hartge sounds like with an induction kit though! That must be loud.

I drove the JCW and the Hartge back to back. One in the morning one in the afternoon. The Hartge was noticeably quicker but that's probably due to the fact it has a few more ponies under the bonnet.

I think if you want refinement go for the Works if you want all out performance go for the Hartge. However maybe my opinion will change. I'm gonna drive a GGR when I go on the factory tour. We'll see what that is like.

rasp · Jun 5th, 2003, 11:44 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Ginge
[b]Yeah your right bigbaddaboom it did have the M3 style exhaust which probably added to the noise. I want to know what the Hartge sounds like with an induction kit though! That must be loud.

Ginge

I have the Birds Spirit 4 outlet exhaust system and have now added the rogue madness cold intake. I would just like to say they compliment each other very nicely!

Rasp

Root Ginger · Jun 6th, 2003, 03:16 PM

Rasp,

I can imagine the noise. I love the burble on lift off of the M3 exhaust. I really miss this from my Play Mini exhaust on my old TPi Mini Cooper.

I'm so jealous of you guys with Hartge's.

Jun 3rd, 2003, 06:04 PM	#1
rusty MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kent Local Time: 04:45 PM Posts: 123 Offline	Cooper S Tuning, JCW, Hartge At the moment i'm really getting the bug to put my order in for my Cooper S very soon. I'm sure you're all the same as me and you all want the upgraded version i.e JCW or Hartge etc. At the moment if I was going to have one i'd have the Hartge because of the price and the reviews i've read, but the JCW one because of the no quibbles warrenty. I know that mini dealers won't budge on giving you anything but has anyone tried to push it and say you want the JCW package at a reduced cost or you'll send it up to Birds and have the Hartge upgrade. Worth a try? Chlli Red Cooper, White roof, 17" S Spoke, Chilli Pack , Chrome Vents, Personalised Plate + all other little extras inc CD Boost, Air Con, Heatad Mirrors, Traction Control.

Jun 3rd, 2003, 06:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
Fullupo MINI2 Senior Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cambridge Local Time: 04:45 PM Posts: 363 Offline	im doubtful but anythings worth a try, go for it! and let us know how u get on and ill follow suit! 2003 DS/DS Cooper S

Jun 3rd, 2003, 06:18 PM	#3 (permalink)
rusty MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kent Local Time: 04:45 PM Posts: 123 Offline	Will do matey Chlli Red Cooper, White roof, 17" S Spoke, Chilli Pack , Chrome Vents, Personalised Plate + all other little extras inc CD Boost, Air Con, Heatad Mirrors, Traction Control.

Jun 3rd, 2003, 07:24 PM	#4 (permalink)
MichaelK MINI2 Regular Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: uk Local Time: 04:45 PM Posts: 342 Offline	Re: Cooper S Tuning, JCW, Hartge Quote: Originally posted by rusty At the moment if I was going to have one i'd have the Hartge because of the price and the reviews i've read, but the JCW one because of the no quibbles warrenty. Umm what reviews have you been reading ? Try: Evo, Car, Autocar and CCR(something like that) all favour the JCW. Best advice is to take both for a test drive. Cheers Michael JCW Works S, DS/DS, Chilli, DSC, HAB, HK, panther black/lapis blue (Cloth) S0007

Jun 3rd, 2003, 07:26 PM	#5 (permalink)
rusty MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kent Local Time: 04:45 PM Posts: 123 Offline	Re: Re: Cooper S Tuning, JCW, Hartge Quote: Originally posted by MichaelK Umm what reviews have you been reading ? Try: Evo, Car, Autocar and CCR(something like that) all favour the JCW. Best advice is to take both for a test drive. Cheers Michael Think that is what i'll have to do. But then money does come in to it which is a bugger! Otherwise I would do the JCW's conversion I think. Chlli Red Cooper, White roof, 17" S Spoke, Chilli Pack , Chrome Vents, Personalised Plate + all other little extras inc CD Boost, Air Con, Heatad Mirrors, Traction Control.

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Jun 3rd, 2003, 07:45 PM	#6 (permalink)
rusty MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kent Local Time: 04:45 PM Posts: 123 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by Max Rusty, there are a few threads on JCW vs the others under performance and tuning. Try a search on JCW or look at this thread: http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=29880 Read through the posts to get an impression. I would say If you can afford the JCW get it (read my signature) good luck.. Appreciate the advise!! Cheers Matey Chlli Red Cooper, White roof, 17" S Spoke, Chilli Pack , Chrome Vents, Personalised Plate + all other little extras inc CD Boost, Air Con, Heatad Mirrors, Traction Control.

Jun 3rd, 2003, 08:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
Root Ginger Amiga 500 to PS3 20 Years Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Slough, Berkshire Local Time: 05:45 PM Posts: 4,673 Offline	Have to say, having driven both the Hartge and the S Works, the Hartge is the way to go. And I own a Cooper Works. What does that tell you? It was acceptable in the 80's

Jun 3rd, 2003, 08:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
rusty MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kent Local Time: 04:45 PM Posts: 123 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by Ginge Have to say, having driven both the Hartge and the S Works, the Hartge is the way to go. And I own a Cooper Works. What does that tell you? Thanks for the advise mate! Do you wish you hadn't of had the Cooper works kit? I think there is only a 0.3 difference between a standard cooper and a works cooper. Any good points? Chlli Red Cooper, White roof, 17" S Spoke, Chilli Pack , Chrome Vents, Personalised Plate + all other little extras inc CD Boost, Air Con, Heatad Mirrors, Traction Control.

Jun 3rd, 2003, 10:49 PM	#9 (permalink)
mhoutman MINI2 Senior Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The Netherlands Local Time: 05:45 PM Posts: 529 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by Max I would say If you can afford the JCW get it (read my signature) Max, what happened to you ?;-) very "Works".

Jun 3rd, 2003, 11:13 PM	#10 (permalink)
James Haigh MINI2 Regular Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sheffield, U.K Local Time: 05:45 PM Posts: 230 Offline	I sat down and spoke to my dealer before having the Hartge conversion done and they were fine with it. However thay offered to fit me the JCW kit for £3,400 including everything. Still too much which is why I went with Hartge. DS/Black Cooper S, Chilli pack, Full leather, Climate DSC, Clear lights and 212 ponies Hartge kit.

Jun 4th, 2003, 12:49 AM	#11 (permalink)
rasp The Mini Family Sponsers Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Harlow Local Time: 05:45 PM Posts: 1,697 Offline	Hi JCW is said to be more refined but stuff the refinement its the sheer grunt of the Hartge that puts it tops all day long! Oh and keep the 2 grand spare in your pocket! My 2c worth. Rasp

Jun 4th, 2003, 03:02 AM	#12 (permalink)
MAXIM nurburgring here we come Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: :uk: Local Time: 04:45 PM Posts: 752 Offline	waiting lists are so long you got no chance of getting a reduction from your dealer.they make only 150 kits per at the moment for worldwide distribution.john coopers garage are currently taking bookings for the middle of august.that might tell you something how popular the jcw conversion is...

Jun 4th, 2003, 03:28 AM	#13 (permalink)
QQQ MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: rotterdam Local Time: 05:45 PM Posts: 2,422 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by MAXIM waiting lists are so long you got no chance of getting a reduction from your dealer.they make only 150 kits per at the moment for worldwide distribution.john coopers garage are currently taking bookings for the middle of august.that might tell you something how popular the jcw conversion is... Hi MAXIM, See you got the Works kit, congrats mate Gonna keep the Magnaflow exhaust with it or are you staying with the JCW exhaust. I'm sure the MF will give you some extra BHP's? Have fun braking it in mate and hope to cu soon at some MINI meeting take care

Jun 4th, 2003, 01:59 PM	#14 (permalink)
Root Ginger Amiga 500 to PS3 20 Years Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Slough, Berkshire Local Time: 05:45 PM Posts: 4,673 Offline	Rusty, Don't really regret getting the Works kit. It is good, but maybe a bit expensive now, considering an S is only a few hundred quid more. However at the time I had my car there was no S and there was no tuning available either. As for good points. Noise!!! With the JCW open induction system it is rather loud. This was one of the disappointments with the S Works. Sounds like a hair dryer. Too much supercharger and not enough exhaust and induction. The Hartge version is much noisier and really burbles when you lift off the throttle. Sounds like the performance car it is. As well as this it pulls harder and faster than the Works and it's cheaper. Warranty issues aren't a problem. The only bits that aren't covered, are those they change. The rest is still covered by BMW's own warranty. In fact if you look under the bonnet of a Hartge there is no way of telling it's not standard and it can still be serviced by BMW. The Hartge bits have a 12 month warranty. My own car will be getting a turbo and nitrous in the future so I'll soon be zooming past everyones S anyway. It was acceptable in the 80's

Jun 4th, 2003, 02:44 PM	#15 (permalink)
bigbaddaboom MINI2 Master Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Brighton, UK Local Time: 05:45 PM Posts: 1,297 Offline	I don't agree, while the Works S doesn't sound as loud in the cabin as the Works Cooper, outside the sound of the exhaust on a flyby at full throttle is loud, much louder than the standard car. Considering that the Hartge has the same exhaust as the standard car I can't see how it can be louder (other than perhaps the supercharger whine). The only way I can see the Hartge car being 'as loud' as the Works S is if it has a new exhaust added (possibly the funky four port which looks great). But this ups the price of the overall kit, admittedly not as high as the JCW kit but still more expensive than the base price, if noise is all you want. I would also disagree that the Hartge car pulls any better than the JCW kit, in fact I'd probably go so far and say that all the 200 bhp conversions are virtually the same for performance. In my opinion you pay your money and take your choice.

Jun 5th, 2003, 01:25 AM	#16 (permalink)
MAXIM nurburgring here we come Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: :uk: Local Time: 04:45 PM Posts: 752 Offline	hi QQQ i have sold the magnaflow, just sticking to the complete jcw set up,and i have had an aero kit fitted as well, hope to see you again soon... Last edited by MAXIM : Jun 5th, 2003 at 03:36 AM.

Jun 5th, 2003, 01:43 PM	#17 (permalink)
Root Ginger Amiga 500 to PS3 20 Years Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Slough, Berkshire Local Time: 05:45 PM Posts: 4,673 Offline	Yeah your right bigbaddaboom it did have the M3 style exhaust which probably added to the noise. I want to know what the Hartge sounds like with an induction kit though! That must be loud. I drove the JCW and the Hartge back to back. One in the morning one in the afternoon. The Hartge was noticeably quicker but that's probably due to the fact it has a few more ponies under the bonnet. I think if you want refinement go for the Works if you want all out performance go for the Hartge. However maybe my opinion will change. I'm gonna drive a GGR when I go on the factory tour. We'll see what that is like. It was acceptable in the 80's

Jun 5th, 2003, 11:44 PM	#18 (permalink)
rasp The Mini Family Sponsers Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Harlow Local Time: 05:45 PM Posts: 1,697 Offline	[quote]Originally posted by Ginge [b]Yeah your right bigbaddaboom it did have the M3 style exhaust which probably added to the noise. I want to know what the Hartge sounds like with an induction kit though! That must be loud. Ginge I have the Birds Spirit 4 outlet exhaust system and have now added the rogue madness cold intake. I would just like to say they compliment each other very nicely! Rasp

Jun 6th, 2003, 03:16 PM	#19 (permalink)
Root Ginger Amiga 500 to PS3 20 Years Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Slough, Berkshire Local Time: 05:45 PM Posts: 4,673 Offline	Rasp, I can imagine the noise. I love the burble on lift off of the M3 exhaust. I really miss this from my Play Mini exhaust on my old TPi Mini Cooper. I'm so jealous of you guys with Hartge's. It was acceptable in the 80's

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