[Root Ginger]

Saw this on NAM and thought wow!!!

250BHP running stock Pulley and ECU!

http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB_14&file=index&ac tion=viewtopic&topic=22805&start=25

[PW51CAR]

Commonly known as a superturbo

Thats a nice looking conversion, very neat.

Would be nice, assuming they are running the charger from low to mid revs then having a cut off and bringing the turbo in at higher revs. Nice way to cut out lag, expensive, but nice

[macncheese]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ginge

Saw this on NAM and thought wow!!!

250BHP running stock Pulley and ECU!

Stock ECU but its running APEXI S-AFC for fueling and timing.

--
Cheese

[Shorty]

Does it affect TLC?

[Root Ginger]

Quote: Originally Posted by macncheese

Stock ECU but its running APEXI S-AFC for fueling and timing.

--
Cheese

Oh yeah forgot to mention that

[Root Ginger]

Quote: Originally Posted by Shorty

Does it affect TLC?

...and the award for the stupidest question goes to...

[TonyB]

I read that late last night, and I seem to recall that it was 250hp at the wheels, not the crank. Actually, I'm fairly certain as I remember he got a stock reading of 147 or so...

For those who wish to translate that, using 12% as an average loss, that's like 285 hp. Again, that is based upon that 250 figure being at the weels. Very impressive. Let's see what unfolds here. With heat soak being an issue for our MINIs, I'm curious to see the increase of underhood temps with the addtion of a turbo, albeit not a huge one...

[Root Ginger]

Good point there TonyB another point I forgot to mention

[ananiou]

VERY interesting work. I honestly wasn’t expecting that. This solution won’t mess with the drivability of the car. The HP gains are gooood, we only need to know if the car maintains a decent amount of reliability and of course how much they will sell it in Europe, if they plan doing so.

[jlm]

the output of the turbo is blasted into the supercharger and then into the intercooler. No way would a supercharger cutout work. Should be a good test of the ability of the blower to stand heat, touted by some as a potential shortcoming when running smaller pulleys

[obehave]

Quote: Originally Posted by jlm

the output of the turbo is blasted into the supercharger and then into the intercooler. No way would a supercharger cutout work. Should be a good test of the ability of the blower to stand heat, touted by some as a potential shortcoming when running smaller pulleys

Fireworks are fun!!

[ananiou]

has anyone else kept reading the guys at SPI estimate a cost of 5800$ for the kit???
is it just me or it sounds pretty good.

[TonyB]

Quote: Originally Posted by ananiou

has anyone else kept reading the guys at SPI estimate a cost of 5800$ for the kit???
is it just me or it sounds pretty good.

I suppose for the price, and that kind of hp, I believe many will see that as a good deal alright. I'm not crazy about the path, or routing of this system through the SC, as jlm notes above. With those increased temps, and at 20 lbs of boost driving it...

While not available now, I'd still prefer a much more efficient SC that delivers some serious low end, with much less boost. Output also would be in the 275-300 range, as I understand it.

SPI does have me very interested though! I'm going to sit tight to see what unfolds with their twincharger, as well as new developments this year...

[ananiou]

The thermal loads surely must've sky rocked, but as I said they need to prove their reliability and maybe use some thermal coating tape on their manifold. The cost is very attractive and that, probably, because the motor has been opened.
I believe M7 is working on a high end SC for around 300hp, isn’t so?

[Charger_Pete]

Ahem, reality check peeps.

There is no way that the turbo outlet would be routed into the supercharger and then through the intercooler. If we pick some basic numbers here we will see why:

Air in to turbo 20degC>>>>>Air out of turbo 120degC>>>>>>into S/C at 120degC and out at 200degC maybe>>>into intercooler.

At this point the supercharger would probably melt its seals and rotors would begin to break down after a while. The intercooler fins and core would simple melt and if the air made it into the engine the combustion system would simple suffer from immence pre-detonation. If the pistons could stand up to it however, you would have to run it on ethanol to achieve any useable combustion.

The logical progression for this setup is to use the supercharger to boost the engine until about 3000 rev/min. At this point the supercharger can be clutched (using clutch pulley) and then let the turbo take over for mid-range and hight speed performance. The turbo would be far more efficient at higher engine speeds.

Dont get me wrong, i am not knocking the installation, it has taken someone a lot of time, money and thought so respect for that! I would be most interested in finding out how this installation really worked.

Pete

[Rakey]

so anyone been in the site to question it a bit more

go on Pete you know you want to

[ananiou]

the analysis was made by andy@rosstech.com and the guy from SPI agreed.
1 - Cool air is inhaled through the HKS filter, which has the factory grille scoop blowing onto it
2 - Cool air enters the turbo compressor
3 - After being compressed and heated by the turbo, hot air travels toward the throttle body
4 - Hot air enters the throttle body and travels into the supercharger
5 - After being compressed and heated by the supercharger, very hot air exits the supercharger - it has been heated twice now (compressor efficiencies are multuplied) so if the turbo is 70% efficient and the supercharger is 60% efficient, overall efficiency would be 42 %
6 - Very hot air enters the intercooler. Intercoolers deliver a % temperature drop, so if the intercooler is 80% efficient, it removes 80% of the difference between the very hot air and ambient
7 - Cooler air (still very warm, I'm sure) exits the intercooler and enters the intake manifold.
8 - After combustion, exhaust gases exit the cylinder head into a custom exhaust manifold and are routed through the turbo, exiting on the left into a custom downpipe.

[Charger_Pete]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rakey

so anyone been in the site to question it a bit more

go on Pete you know you want to

Hmm, think i am going to get my calculator out and do some sums here, now where is that copy of Heywood........

I'll be back with some numbers shortley, this is very interesting...

P.S

Thanks for the explanation ananiou, confirmed what i thought.

[Charger_Pete]

Hi Peeps

I have knocked up some rough figures for the super-turbo system during my lunch break. I have made a few basic assumptions about initial conditions and air temps so dont take the figures in the spreadsheet as gospal. I am sure andy@rosstech has logged actual air temps so correct me as you feel necessary.

I feel that the supercharger must be clutched out just after the turbo kicks in. Otherwise air temperature would rise to a massive 190degC, even after passing throught the intercooler. I remember that there is a turbo kit for the Cooper and One which hikes power to 250 HP. I reckon this kit is a variation/improvement on that by gaining low end boost from the supercharger.

Let me have your thoughts guys, they are appreciated.

Thanks

C_P

[ananiou]

Quote: Originally Posted by Charger_Pete

Hi Peeps

I have knocked up some rough figures for the super-turbo system during my lunch break. I have made a few basic assumptions about initial conditions and air temps so dont take the figures in the spreadsheet as gospal. I am sure andy@rosstech has logged actual air temps so correct me as you feel necessary.

I feel that the supercharger must be clutched out just after the turbo kicks in. Otherwise air temperature would rise to a massive 190degC, even after passing throught the intercooler. I remember that there is a turbo kit for the Cooper and One which hikes power to 250 HP. I reckon this kit is a variation/improvement on that by gaining low end boost from the supercharger.

Let me have your thoughts guys, they are appreciated.

Thanks

C_P

If you can do that during lunch brakes i couldn't guess what you're capable of during work hours . Anyway, about initial assumptions i like ambient temp of 25degC because i live in place here in Greece with extreme temps from -15C to +35degC. I really want to know how this set up could cope during summer time and of course that figure of 190degC is a bit scaring . Do you think that i can move your calculations to their thread on www.northamericanmotoring.com so that we can get some comments from over there also? I am sure that the guy from SPI would have something to say about it.