[RVW]

Has anyone tried EBC Red Stuff pads?
It has been suggested to me that they are better than Green Stuff in the braking performance area.
Would be intersted in your thoughts as I currently have spotted and grooved EBC dics and green stuff pads front and rear and to be honest am not 100% convinced they are better than the standard setup in braking dept. Dust department they win hands down.
Was wondering if changing to red pads would be better?
Extract from EBC web site. this suggests they are suited to higher performance cars. Does the JCW,Hartge,West,etc come into this catergory?



redstuff Ceramic pad compound will blow your mind when used in anger on faster street cars such as Evo, Impreza, M3, Skyline and anything quick.

An ECE R90 approved pad, legal for street use yet capable of stopping you from regular 100mph plus runs without fade. The pads just keep getting better the more abuse you give them.

Available for all faster cars both modern and classic

[bengascoyne]

Hi there,

first of all I think you could do with editing your first post, its huge!!

Right, well I would strongly advise against Red Stuff pads, what it means by "performance" is really "for track & performance use"! The idea behind red stuff pads is that the hotter they get, the better they get, so when your thrashing your car around a track and into bends at silly speeds, you always have full braking power with no fade. If you use them on your Mini on for use in normal driving, they won't be very responsive untill they're properly warmed up (which takes some serious braking) and won't be as good as standard ones. Which can be dangerous because in normal driving conditions you never know when you may need your brakes and if you have to stop suddenly and your brakes haven't warmed up, it may take you a lot further to stop. Please be careful with your choice of brakes, you need "fast road use" pads like green stuff ones for optimum performance! I've never had any problems with green stuff!

Hope this helps.

[MitchyBoy]

If you actually read up on Red Stuff pads you will find that they are actually fast road pads, not track pads. I looked into them a few weeks ago and as I remember they are effective up to 750 deg C without heavily compromising their performance when cold. What stopped me in my tracks was that at the time EBC weren't manufacturing the Red STUFF pad for the Mini. Hope they do though. On another note it isn't very common to have to emergency stop within 5 seconds of leaving your house and from experience with TVR's, Caterhams and the like, a little bit of extra pressure makes up the shortfall.

Mitch

[RVW]

Edited first post

I have greenstuff pads all round now and find that they are inconsistant which does not breed confidence. On a recent trip to Italy they did not like coming down the mountains in fact I had to stop and let them cool because they where almost burning. Before you say I was driving too fast I was not .It was the fact that with steep gradients lots of hairpins the brakes just could not cope with the constant use.
EBC web site suggests that red stuff are more than suitable for the faster roadcar and donot say they are only for track use unlike thier yellow and blue pads. This leads me to think that red are more than acceptable for the job of every day road use. Correct me if I am wrong

January 2004 - EBC launches new Ceramic range
After a year of testing EBC Brakes launched its new Red Ceramic range of super fast street and track automotive pads. The Ceramic pads offer a true combination brake pad that can be used on both the street and the race track with full ECE R 90 compliance.

[MitchyBoy]

This is all irrelevant if EBC don't make red stuff for Mini's though and as far as I can find out, they don't. There is no mention of them when you do a search on the EBC direct website and and web searches turn up a blank. I'd love for someone to prove me wrong though.

Mitch

[bengascoyne]

Hi there,

Sorry if I caused confusion before, was only speaking from experience with the pads. I had green stuff pads on my 206 gti and they were perfect for general everyday driving, but we fitted Red Stuff pads all round on my friends Civic Type R and found them to be rather "dull" at cool temperatures and not as effective as the stock ones. But on the track they were out this world, they performed awesomely, out braking many cars into the corners and therefore increasing top speed through the straights. I could have no complaints whatsoever about these pads when we used them on the track.

I just thought the lack of response from cold was maybe not suitable for everyday use, and short "in and about" town journeys.

Also EBC, although they do say the pads are legal for road use, they recommend more to track/race use :-

"Redstuff Ceramic pad compound will blow your mind when used in anger on faster street cars such as Evo, Impreza, M3, Skyline and anything quick.
An ECE R90 approved pad, legal for street use yet capable of stopping you from regular 100mph plus runs without fade. The pads just keep getting better the more abuse you give them."

Have a look at their site, it may be able to reveal some answers for you!
http://www.ebcbrakes.com/Automotive.html

Hope this solves your problems and you find a suitable solution,

Regards,

Ben

[RVW]

Quote: Originally Posted by MitchyBoy

This is all irrelevant if EBC don't make red stuff for Mini's though and as far as I can find out, they don't. There is no mention of them when you do a search on the EBC direct website and and web searches turn up a blank. I'd love for someone to prove me wrong though.

Mitch

Latest from EBC after an e-mail asking the question.

Hi, Ray,

DP31388C is Redstuff Ceramic for the front.
DP31389 is Redstuff for the rear.

These pads are for 200+ BHP road cars so they should be ideal on this car.

Best Regards
Bob Sketchley

[MitchyBoy]

Thanks for that, much obliged. Guess you've just shown me yet another way to financially cripple myself.

Mitch

[tuscan_thunder]

i would also advise against the red stuffs on a mini. mate had them on a subaru sti 5, (tuned up to 320bhp) and they weren't too great for the road. the subaru is heavier than the mini.

the pads took too long to heat up on the road which meant you lacked confidence when following cars on traffic. they were fantastic on the track where you could get them up to full heat and keep them there. even driving at obscene (VERY illegal) speeds on the road you could hardly get them up to full heat and definitely couldn't keep them there. and that's with the scoob which is putting about 350kg more into the pads than a mini could.

i'd recommend ferodo DS2500 (think it's that code!!) they do squeal a wee bit when cold, but seem to work well by all accounts.

there is a new green stuff formula. also i think your drilled and grooved discs will be cooling your pads. i think your set up will not be allowing the pads to get to full heat.

do you do work on the car yourself? if so, you could put the original discs on and try them with the green stuff pads. i think that will work better than the drilled/grooved set up on the road at least. the grooves and drilled holes only do good work when the pads are roasting as it 'skims' the top oxidised coating off the top of the pads. this prevents fade. otherwise, the grooves actually decrease braking power.

(i had green stuff in my hillclimb car and they too needed heating to get them to work properly. as we need instant braking power on a hill i went back to standard road pads. even 'heavy' hillclimb cars like a 550bhp sierra cosworth which is also used for sprinting, use green stuff so i'm not sure the mini will work red stuffs sufficiently)

yrs
t_t

[robfenn]

I agree totally with Tuscan thunder there. I would forget EBC, better alternatives out there.

[robfenn]

I would say Ferodo, or perhaps Pagid. Not sure on derivative names but i think the DS2500 is the one Ferodo supply.

-Rob

[robfenn]

By the way, moving away from pads and discs, braided hoses and better fluids are normally the best VFM upgrade.

-Rob

[RVW]

Hmmm this is getting interesting, still a little confused as to opposite opinions

Perhaps someone should start a poll on which pads ( not just EBC) are considered the best for fast ROAD use.

EBC V3 Redstuff

• High Performance Road M3, Evo, Impreza etc.
• Effective to above 750°C

EBC’s high performance road compound, the next grade up from Greenstuff, Redstuff pads deliver unparalleled stopping power up to a blistering 750°C, making them extremely suitable for cars such as M3, Mitsubishi Evo, Subaru Impreza etc. Recommended for road cars with 200+ BHP. The recently improved V3 formulation is a very well accepted fast A and B road pad for all quicker street legal saloons, providing improved braking from cold and better high end temperature resistance. The V3 material is not suitable for track day use, please see the Redstuff ceramic pad for track day applications.
>>>>>>>

EBC REDSTUFF CERAMIC - TRACK DAY AND FAST STREET PAD

• High Performance

Following significant race and track testing and developments EBC are proud to launch this new range of ceramic Redstuff pads for the fastest street cars and for track day use.
The new material is only available for a selected range of fast street cars and was recently tested through several hundred kilometres of race use at the Nurburgring and came through with flying colours. EBC Redstuff ceramic is one of the first pads to be offered that is ECE R-90 compliant and therefore legal for road use and yet is capable of withstanding track day torture.
>>>>>>>

EBC V4 Greenstuff

• Fast/Heavy Street Use
• Brake well from cold
• Effective to above 650°C
• Low dust formula

Triple Max Power Award winning Greenstuff are the ultimate performance/fast street brake pads you can get for your hot hatch or sport compact. These pads have a high friction coefficient, great initial bite from cold, right up to a blistering 650 degrees centigrade. Another major benefit of the Greenstuff compound is its award-winning feature of being LOW DUST. Being awarded the UK magazines Autotrade Innovation Award for its low dust features, Greenstuff pads cut down between 60-90% of the dust common with most competitive types of semi-metallic pad on your alloys keeping wheels cleaner and delivering performance at the same time. Greenstuff pads are available for a huge range of cars, SUV’s, light trucks and mini vans.

[robfenn]

Quote: Originally Posted by Max

OK thanks Rob, and you have tried these have you? Also u drive on the track or the autobahns in Germany? Or any rallying or fast road at all?

Max

On track i would say Pagids slightly better but they are very expensive, so not sure i would get them. Both have been fine on all UK tracks i've been on and on the 'ring. I couldn't tell you about fast road performance as i tend not to drive fast on the road but the temp ranges are fine for the road.

-Rob

[tuscan_thunder]

i think, from my experience, that the best pads are: Red Dot, Tar-Ox and Ferodo (Pagids are great but any thime i've looked they are fearsomely expensive!). They all seem to be made to a high standard with low fade, good bite from cold and good lifespan. Obviously, they vary a bit with compound. Rob is right, the Ferodo DS2500 is a very good pad. Can squeal a wee bit when cold, but surely that's not an issue if the performance of the pad is good?

The DS2500 would be my choice for a fast road/occasional track day pad for a mini, even up to S Works (etc) spec. the DS2500 should be enough for occasional track days so on the road, they should be perfect. Not too expensive either, and when you think what a full tank of petrol costs, pads are quite cheap really i think.

For a track biased/race pad, i'd go for the DS3000 or look at Red Dot pads. The best thing to do is speak to someone who knows about pads but isn't a rep for a company. I use demon tweeks a lot for hillclimb stuff and the guys there are good for advising customers. They stock a lot of brands and are usually spot-on for matching product with your requirements.

I still think a mini would work better with solid discs, (not drilled/grooved) and braided hoses and clean fluid would definitely help. (I'd also remove the ABS fuse to cut it out but that's my personal choice) the mini isn't a heavy car either so working the pads hard enough would be my biggest concern.

RVW:: you reported the brakes getting too hot on mountain roads. I think this may be the fluid starting to boil. braided hoses help limit this, but a change to a higher spec of fluid would eliminate this. (can't remember the number off the top of my head but generally the higher the number, the higher temp it can cope with)

also, i think you've answered your own question here! red stuff info from EBC recommends them for M3s etc. M3 weighs what, 1600kg? and has 335bhp? evos weigh about 1450 and standard evos (do they exist??!!) have about 280bhp. a mini is about 1100kg, yes? and a works has about 200 bhp so to be honest, i doubt a mini will get these pads working

hope that helps
yrs
t_t

[mightydread]

hi guys, so has anyone tested out these new EBC Redstuff Ceramic Brake Pads , on a mcs yet?? i just pick up a set of them , should i install them or i shouldnt wast my time.

please any info would be great
thanx
mikie

[duncanbanana]

I have EBC Red Stuff pads on the fron and Greenstuff on the rears butmi dont have standard brakes (Winner Power Big Brake Kit 310 mm front with 6 pot calipers and 310 mm rears using original caliplers)
I find them great , need warming up at first and dont produce that much dust

[duncanbanana]

Quote: Originally Posted by Max

Why the mix duncan?

Any advantage? You running GGR 207 still?

regards

Max

I asked EBC about which was the best set up regarding my Mini and they said Red Stuff on the front and Green on the back plus i dont think they make Red Stuff for the rears of the Mini yet
I had Winner Power Ceramic Racing pads when i got the kit , too much dust from them, didnt last very long and had to warm up before you got the best out of them.
Then went for Ferodo DS2500 , ok but didnt feel as good as the Ceramic pads i had on first.
So went for the Red Stuff , very good , not much dust , still need warming up at first even when on motorway and havent done any braking for a while they need a couple of hard braking to get the best out of them.

Still have GGR 200 on but have a few other mods on