[DaveColorado]

I know this is a hard question, but I am ordering a Cooper S and am considering a few options for tuning (S Works or Mini Mania Stage II Kit). I am not concerned about the cost, but after reading the posts on the current Tritec Engine, I am concerned about the following:

(1) The longetivity of the Tritec Engine
(2) The long term effect on the engine from tuning (supercharger pulley, etc)

Any insight would help since my main concern about the Mini Cooper at this point is the current engine. I have heard many Rumors regarding the BMW/Peugot replacement in 2006 or 2007.

Thanks,

Dave-

[sequence]

DC welcome to M2. because we barely have three years to measure, I think'd be hard to accurately assess your questions at this time. Pulley reductions, ecu remaps, CAI's, it boggles the mind.

But I too have enough long-term doubt about the Tritec that my mods will be more suspension/tire-related. I want to keep my MCS as stock as possible. I may get a less restrictive air filter element but that's aboot it.

As far as the Poo-Joe joint venture I was under the impression this was slated for 08-09, and not next year? mod correct if I'm wrong. again, welcome to M2. Jimbo y Como

[kyriian]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaveColorado

I know this is a hard question, but I am ordering a Cooper S and am considering a few options for tuning (S Works or Mini Mania Stage II Kit). I am not concerned about the cost, but after reading the posts on the current Tritec Engine, I am concerned about the following:

(1) The longetivity of the Tritec Engine
(2) The long term effect on the engine from tuning (supercharger pulley, etc)

Any insight would help since my main concern about the Mini Cooper at this point is the current engine. I have heard many Rumors regarding the BMW/Peugot replacement in 2006 or 2007.

Thanks,

Dave-

1)the tritec engine can be bomb-proof...it's suppose to be a very strong engine that can stand up to time if take care of.. but then that's true with almost all engines
2)over time, the more power you put into the engine will cost wear and tear faster... now they are unmesurable, but over time.. i believe that things will happen...

yet in the same time... ppl have run pullies, ecus, stuff alike for years on the track without any ill effect.... the bottom line is still take care of the engine's vital fluids and it will last

mods wise... exhaust and intakes hardly will damage any engine parts... it's almost impossible for these stuff to hurt the engine..

me? i've done some mods to it and so far not a single problem other than a bigger smile than ever b4! im probably gonna switch out this mini for a new one in 4 years when the new peugeot sorced engine comes in...

[DaveColorado]

Hi (Sequence and Kyriian)

Thanks for the welcoming remarks... As well, thanks for the good input. Paying attention to oil changes is most likely the best strategy as you point out in order to keep the engine in good shape. I have had several cars with engines at 200+k miles that were still running strong. It is impossible to really know, however, I did see someone who had reached the 100k mark in a previous thread.

If I did not have to wait so long, I would most likely wait it out and get the newer engine. I guess that provides no guarantees either. I am quite surprised after looking at this for a while now that BMW did not decide to build thier own engine based on the unique design characteristics of the mini. If you look at Audi or VW, the engines have been designed for the cars, or at minimum, are being used within other platforms. This engine seems to be the major weak point. Don't get me wrong, I am not slamming this engine since I have test driven the car and it seems really good, it is just a sense of discomfort knowing that BMW picked this engine based on what was convenient, not what was the best engine for the car. If this was the best engine, they would have figured this out in the beginning. Now that they are talking about using another engine from another car manufacturer seems like they have not learned their lesson. The Nissan Maxima has been using variations on the VQ 6 cylinder engine for over 10 years with incredible success.

So, in the end, I have to decide if I want to buy the car based on the engine issue. Usually, when I buy a car, I keep it for 10 or more years. Knowing that the engine is going to be completly replaced makes this much harder. I will keep you posted on my final decision...

DC

[kapps]

I've also had a hard time determining which mods I want to do while balancing engine longgevity. I too have heard that this engine in pretty much bullet proof and can withstand the extra stresses. The person who has 100k miles on his MINI also has an intake/exhaust and pulley along with some other mods. Hopefully this is a good sign.

As for the BMW/Chrysler or BMW/Peugot, they wanted to get a good engine that could quickly be put into production for the MINI. Developing a new engine takes time and they wanted to get the car out. Another reason for the switch may be the fact that BMW didn't really know that people would want more power. They can't tune the current engine up without either it costing a lot (Works) or threatening to reduce engine life...remember they have to make the engine strong enough for someone to drive it very hard and have it last until the warrenty period is up.

[obehave]

Well. there are a large number of people here with over 200 HP that have run the snot out of their car drag racing and track time. They seem to have held up very well.
NearlyNN just finished the One Lap of America , and won his class BTW, and had zero failures for the duration.
I seems the bottom end on these little engines is pretty darn good. There are some questions about how well the pistons themselves will hold up to high HP over the long haul. We'll see.

[BitRot]

The other reason for the engine switch is that BMW doesn’t like giving Daimler-Benz (their biggest competitor) a chunk of their profits on the Mini.

I for one will be spec-ing my MCS before the 2007 “cutoff” because the current information on the new Peugot engine for the S is underwhelming. No increase in overall horsepower, just a 140 bhp engine with a tiny turbocharger bringing it up to 170.

The switch to a turbo is likely because they’re cheaper and smaller (adding to the rumors that the new engines will be larger than the Tritech and require a bulge on the bonnet to fit). Turbos might be smaller and lighter, but they have less longevity and give you fewer options to tune the car. (no more quick and simple 15% pulley mods)

The new engine might be better designed than the current one, that’s yet to be seen, but what I do know for sure is that a 30 hp turbo replacing the current 55 hp supercharger is a downgrade however you look at it.

[LMB]

A turbo doesn't sound as good either. My favourite characteristic of the S is the Whine of the Supercharger.

[EBMCS03]

Quote: Originally Posted by BitRot

The other reason for the engine switch is that BMW doesn’t like giving Daimler-Benz (their biggest competitor) a chunk of their profits on the Mini.

I for one will be spec-ing my MCS before the 2007 “cutoff” because the current information on the new Peugot engine for the S is underwhelming. No increase in overall horsepower, just a 140 bhp engine with a tiny turbocharger bringing it up to 170.

The switch to a turbo is likely because they’re cheaper and smaller (adding to the rumors that the new engines will be larger than the Tritech and require a bulge on the bonnet to fit). Turbos might be smaller and lighter, but they have less longevity and give you fewer options to tune the car. (no more quick and simple 15% pulley mods)

The new engine might be better designed than the current one, that’s yet to be seen, but what I do know for sure is that a 30 hp turbo replacing the current 55 hp supercharger is a downgrade however you look at it.

Ooo wonder if thats true... will make pre 2007 MINIs a classic! hehe

[mlebeau]

BitRot, you may be right about a lot of things, but you are DEAD wrong about turbos giving you fewer options to tune the car. Turbos are a tuner's dream. Which is not to say I'm sure they're right for the MINI.

-mike

[RobHardyUK]

i love turbos, but is it me, or do i think it woulodnt suit the MINI?? Maybe its just i got used to the supercharger..

[DaveColorado]

In the face of uncertainty, it seems like the best thing to do is order the mini and drive like crazy! If the 2007 version is that much better (or they add 4wd), then I can trade it in.

Thanks for all the great input.

DC

[mlebeau]

Rob, yeah I may agree with you which is why I said I wasn't sure I'd condone a turbocharger on the MINI. The supercharger seems so appropriate for the car for some reason. Must be we're just used to it... Or maybe it's because turbos are so common these days in all the traditionally 'fun' cars that the MINI would seem too much like "one of the rest" with a turbo.

-mike

[mlebeau]

By the way Dave, I highly doubt they'll ever add AWD to a MINI. Its heritage is all about a successful FWD platform, and MINI also won't want to add ~400-500 lbs for AWD.

-mike

[kapps]

Quote: Originally Posted by mlebeau

By the way Dave, I highly doubt they'll ever add AWD to a MINI. Its heritage is all about a successful FWD platform, and MINI also won't want to add ~400-500 lbs for AWD.

-mike

Or they could try and do what John Cooper did and stick another engine in the boot and run two engines, each powering a seperate axle . Too bad he almost killed himself in the process . I think we'll have FWD for a while.

[obehave]

Quote: Originally Posted by mlebeau

By the way Dave, I highly doubt they'll ever add AWD to a MINI. Its heritage is all about a successful FWD platform, and MINI also won't want to add ~400-500 lbs for AWD.

-mike

And the additional 100HP+ needed to motivate the car decently.

[rhogg]

I'm confused by the original post. I thought the Titec was a good engine:

The plant was a joint venture between Chrysler and BMW that was purposeful ie build a small displacement engine that could be used in a variety of platforms like the VW 1.8.

It was chosen one of the top ten engines of that year.

Besides the software there have been few problems associated with the engine.

Its being successfully tuned to over 100hp over its stock spec with any? reported problems.

Its entering its 4th year of manufacture ( they've had a chance to fix the kinks ie coolant tank).

So what are your concerns?

If they are because BMW is going to switch engines that is a business decision made after MB bought Chrysler - is got nothing to do with the quality of the engine. Lets hope that when they do replace the engine its with one as good as the one we have!

[sequence]

DC's concerns are mods and their long-term effects on the Tritec, which I argue it can't be assessed yet because the engine's only been out for 4 scant years.

and forget thr 4wd MINI idea--it'll never happen. U read it here first. Jimbo

[uae mini]

if BBR have a 275hp mini up there sleeve then i would think that it is possible.... if u dont trust them then thats a different case.. wait for Hamann, Hartge, other companies to join in the 250hp+ parrade and then you will get peace of mind.
dont forget that some of us have a goal of 300hp+ on our mind and this will proove that this baby can stand all of this abuse.... i mean just drive a standard S and tell me that it feels right, it gets better as u mod it, but u will have to get it handling pretty well before u give it a huge dose of HP.
u will have to wait.. the used car market takes time to get going and then u will have people moddding the MINI.

ignore this crap above if it isnt helpful.

[kapps]

300 HP! There's a point (probably in the 250-275 HP range where other parts of the car will start to deteriorate. They said this about the 275 HP upgrade and the suspension was really taking a beating. Also, I'm not sure if the tranny will handle that much for a long time either. Whatever happens, I'll be happy when I get my MINI up in the 200-210 HP range as a daily driver. Anything more than that would be too much I'd suspect for street purposes.