[AvatarX]

Honestly, is adding a PlayMini Header and a Borla "SPORT" catback exhaust really that noticeable performance-wise? I mean, the general concensus is that these things add 3-4 HP, 10 at most, but the majority of people claim to not notice a significant boost in performance. I've already put in an ALTA Large Intercooler, ALTA 19%, Nology wires, Iridium Sparks, Performance Coil, ALTA Oil Catch Can, Hot Inazma, etc. Thanks in advance!!!

[xianqi]

I've got no clue, but theoretically, which you probably already know. With the mod's you've done, you would see more improvement over someone who was purely stock, simply because with the 19% pully you should be moving more air through the car and amplifying the restriction effects of the stock exhaust.

[AvatarX]

Thanks xianqi!!! I take that as a "YES" then.

[AvatarX]

Actually, the whole reason for this thread is that I came across an interesting article from RDR: http://www.mini-works.com/tech.html

"Aftermarket Exhaust Systems


I feel a need to address exhaust system upgrades for Minis. I will confine my comments to the "S" model, as that is the one we have our test experiences with. When the new Mini hit the market, it seemed that everyone had an exhaust system upgrade for it, and to be quite honest, some of the claims being made were outrageous! The first 4 into 2 into 1 that I tested was supposed to make an increase of 20 HP! I found it hard to believe that BMW/Mini would leave that much power on the table, but this figure was provided to me by the company that was selling it and they even sent me the unit for testing. While I certainly didn't expect to see 20 horses, I DID expect to see something based on the claims made by this seemingly reputable company. Imagine my amazement when testing revealed absolutely no gains, in horsepower or torque anywhere. I mean zippo, nada, squat! The before-and-after dyno sheets looked like perfect overlays. So I sent it back and politely offered the opinion that it was less effective than it was represented to be. This was met with what I believe was sincere surprise and disappointment by the company rep who had sent it. This leads me to believe that it was being sold without proper dyno testing, probably with the claimed increases based solely on the manufacturers' word for it. The lesson learned here is that without proper testing, a lot of blue sky claims can continue to float around out there like urban legends. I subsequently tested a wide variety of headers, cat-backs, and even prototypes from various companies looking to break into the lucrative Mini marketplace. With no exception, I can honestly say that I have yet to find any exhaust improvements amounting to more than a 3-4 horsepower increase. I sometimes think that having a dyno can be a curse, as it gives me firm information about what a product will and will not do. That means that if I know for a fact that a product doesn't work, I can't ethically sell it. If a competitor isn't privy to meaningful test results, they can merrily sell the hell out of it based on what they have been told. I offer the following advice; Buyer Beware. I have an open mind that modest improvements might still be available. I have a reputable competitor who tells me he has a new unit that shows great promise, and I will eagerly test it to see for myself. All I can offer at this time is that if you are looking for a throatier tone for your Mini, by all means explore what's out there. There are a number of systems that change the rather strangled stock exhaust note to something more desirable to performance enthusiasts. Ask around and find out who is running what, and if they, or you, like the sound it produces. Then buy the system that suits your needs. Resist the inflated claims of large increases; to date they haven't materialized. As a final note, I will say that we sell the Borla system to those looking for a more manly tone, and if a modest 3-4 HP gain comes with it, then consider it a bonus. Save your performance enhancement dollars for products that dyno-deliver the goods."

[MINIAC]

I've read that to realize the full benefit of a freer flowing header and exhaust you need larger exhaust valves in the head.

[AvatarX]

Thanks for the info MINIAC!!! I take the concensus here is that although the effects are not great, having them (i.e. Header and Exhaust) are better than staying with stock alone.

[MINIAC]

But is the money you pay for an exhaust and header better spent elsewhere ... like on lighter wheels and performance tires

[AvatarX]

I agree with the lighter wheels and tires and that will happen some time in the future as well. As for now, I'm just wondering whether the exhaust and header will complement the mods I've done to the engine since the bottle neck is in the exhaust part. The question you asked is exactly how I have it in my head: "IS IT WORTH THE $$$ SPENT?" Thanks guys!!!

[AvatarX]

Sorry!!! Me again. I can't help but notice everywhere that even though everyone knows the mediocre performance enhancement of the exhaust and header combo, if any at all, people still do it in every mod I have come across. Just interesting to know whether it's a must have, like many have put it, or simply a "since-everyone-has-it-then-I-must-have-it-too" kinda' thing.....

[sminnen]

I'll have my stock MCS exhaust replaced by a Playmini next Sunday. I guess the hp gains might be a bit better if the exhaust is accompanied a ECU remap... so I'll have that done as well.

I don't expect any serious horsepower gains, but the more throaty sound will make the Mini sound faster

No need to GO faster if you think you ARE going faster

[IXI]

I have put a thread (Dyno testing) and although not as well written as this one i was trying to sort out what performance upgrades actually are of any gain,still think independent testing before and after install would be very interesting.

[smallpackage]

First mod should be lighter rims & more rubber. Then spend the money on the fancy tail pipes.low restriction exhaust becomes more important the more you tweak a car. I put in the Milltek header & cat back on about 9 months ago, and the power increase was quite noticable. It even got better milage! btw the milltek is quieter than the stock system at idle, but has a nice throaty sound past 4000

[Hubert]

Hi AvatarX,
You mean you haven't changed the suspension yet?
I don't think the MCS is safe to drive with stock suspension if you've got 200+ horses. When you floor the throttle, the front end lifts too much and the steering feels light immediately. There's just too much weight transfer as the springs are too soft and the ride height is too high.

[obehave]

A high flow cat will probably get you better gains than a header. If I remember right the cell count on the OEM cat is around 500. Stepping down to a 250-300 cell cat will help a bunch.
Every header I've seen yesyed doesn't do much until after 5K + and peak gain is right at deadline. Not much use for normal driving.
I changed out my exhaust early on. Just a BMP intake and then the Magnaflow. I noticed a difference. A decent comparison is AC on and then AC off acceleration difference.
The higher into HP increases the more you'll need to do an exhaust.
I really changed mine out early because I thought the stock system sounded pants.

[NearlyNN]

I've done a lot of mods and I think the header might be last in line if I were to start again. I too would change my exhaust out for sound, if nothing else.

Though, as Miniac said, the header/exhaust should be more productive if the system is opened up. Head, cam intake manifold, CAI, and wider throttle body. With that kind of better breathing, freeing the back end should show results.

[NearlyNN]

Quote: Originally Posted by obehave

A high flow cat will probably get you better gains than a header. If I remember right the cell count on the OEM cat is around 500. Stepping down to a 250-300 cell cat will help a bunch.
Every header I've seen yesyed doesn't do much until after 5K + and peak gain is right at deadline. Not much use for normal driving .

Obe, I checked with Mini Madness on his new header the V2. It has a 200 cell count, the same as the Milltek. He said the Supersprint is the other header with a free flow cat. Don't have the numbers on that one.

[obehave]

Quote: Originally Posted by NearlyNN

Obe, I checked with Mini Madness on his new header the V2. It has a 200 cell count, the same as the Milltek. He said the Supersprint is the other header with a free flow cat. Don't have the numbers on that one.

Thanks Norm. Yea I was doing a little butt covering on the cell count. I wasn't sure I remembered the numbers right and I've ead that when you get down around 200 you may have problems with a CEL since the pre cat O2 sensor doesn't read well.

I haven't seen hard evidence of that though.
If anybody has any I'd like to see it.