[speedman]

I have read the forums and although this topic has been discussed no definative conclusion has been reached. I am ready to buy on 18th payday and i need to know im buying the best. or should i get a chargecooler.

My mini is a cooper S
Minisport big valve head
BBR Phase 1 220 conversion
BBR powergrip suspension
Pipercross Cam
Play mini exhaust

I am looking for more power as my mini seems to get far too much heat soak, 1 min its fine the next its a dog. Im getting frustrated with it and am considering selling it. This is my last stab at making it drive like i want it to. I dont feel like it performs at low revs well enough and it takes far too long for the supercharger to spin up (especially when overtaking) or accelerating on the motorway). i drove a standard s the other day and i loved it, it felt so much more complete and had better low and mid range, of course mine is quicker but i feel like i have lost low mid range fun factor present in my original mini s as new. I need an intercooler and am also considering a manifold and lightened flywheel, will these help? and what recomendations?

[Leccy_Blue]

Quote: Originally Posted by speedman

I have read the forums and although this topic has been discussed no definative conclusion has been reached. I am ready to buy on 18th payday and i need to know im buying the best. or should i get a chargecooler.

My mini is a cooper S
Minisport big valve head
BBR Phase 1 220 conversion
BBR powergrip suspension
Pipercross Cam
Play mini exhaust

I am looking for more power as my mini seems to get far too much heat soak, 1 min its fine the next its a dog. Im getting frustrated with it and am considering selling it. This is my last stab at making it drive like i want it to. I dont feel like it performs at low revs well enough and it takes far too long for the supercharger to spin up (especially when overtaking) or accelerating on the motorway). i drove a standard s the other day and i loved it, it felt so much more complete and had better low and mid range, of course mine is quicker but i feel like i have lost low mid range fun factor present in my original mini s as new. I need an intercooler and am also considering a manifold and lightened flywheel, will these help? and what recomendations?

Like you, I too have a tuned MCS and am looking for an intercooler as my next mod.

There has been plenty of debate over the different intercoolers available and which one is best, and I'm sure many Mini2'ers will have formed there own opinions. I myself was impressed by the recent review and testing done by Randy Webb of the GRS Intercooler http://www.mini2.com/forum/engine-drivetrain-tuning/91895-grs-intercooler-testing-randy-webb.html which in turn has resulted in my decision to start a group buy of GRS intercoolers - this should hopefully be up and running in the next few days - watch this space.......

I'm sure someone who is more technically minded than myself will be able to suggest some worthwhile power upgrades to boost your low to mid range torque .

Mark.

[TT_Convert]

It seems (from the "discussions" that have gone on before), that the following is about accurate - from what I can make out.

The GTT *may* be of a slightly higher quality (claims and partly believable argues GTT). However, the actual performance of the 2 has yet to be proven in a "fair test". Given that you're getting a larger intercooler than standard, and that we are not talking about huge increases in power (<10bhp), the difference between the two in performance terms is going to be almost unnoticable in every day (and probably even track) use to the average driver. Since both seem to have a very good reputation with good write ups, price won out for me, and I went for the GRS. It's being fitted as soon as I can get to the shop.

This is all MHO and interpretation of what has gone before.

Peter

[pocketrocketowner]

A bigger intercooler is going to help you and the difference between them will essentially be nil. Dont forget the ALTA one, though pricier, it is the one that looks the most solid.
I went for the GRS one.

[rasp]

Quote: Originally Posted by TT_Convert

the actual performance of the 2 has yet to be proven in a "fair test".

Peter

The GRS IC hase been fully tested and the results have been posted...

[rasp]

Quote: Originally Posted by pocketrocketowner

A bigger intercooler is going to help you and the difference between them will essentially be nil. Dont forget the ALTA one, though pricier, it is the one that looks the most solid.
I went for the GRS one.

I think Randy Webb's testing showed the Alta IC was out performed by the GRS IC, however the front mounted type came tops with 4bhp more...I think your right though in saying your not going to notice the difference..However I am very pleased with the way the GRS performs it doe's the job admirably..

[TT_Convert]

Quote: Originally Posted by rasp

The GRS IC hase been fully tested and the results have been posted...

Sorry - I should be clear. Indeed I have seen power curves from the GRS (on an S with some mods) and figures for the GTT (on the car with more mods than you could shake several sticks at), but I haven't seen them head to head on the same car, standard vs GTT vs GRS.

[rasp]

Quote: Originally Posted by TT_Convert

Sorry - I should be clear. Indeed I have seen power curves from the GRS (on an S with some mods) and figures for the GTT (on the car with more mods than you could shake several sticks at), but I haven't seen them head to head on the same car, standard vs GTT vs GRS.

As stated above I dont think you would notice much if any difference between them however it would be interesting to see what comes out a clear winner, saying that before I went the GRS route I looked into IC'S and which one came tops and at the time the GRS one was the only one that proved itself with actual figgures, still some top tuners dont have these figgures for us to see.... thats why a few people on this thread have made the right choice...I think I have said enough about the ongoing IC argument having got into it a bit to deep before so I think I will bail out of this one...

[TT_Convert]

Good shout... been there done that. Wait for me...

[shazam]

SPEEDMAN

I have BBR stage 1- and the GRS is arriving in a few days so I'll let you know.

If you're local to BBR I'll take you for a spin.

The intercooler is quite easy to fit- why not ask Graham at GRS if you can go down to Yeovil and try one out befor you buy- He's a nice bloke.

I think youve got a fault somewhere- my car doesn't suffer any nof these probs you are getting- you posted previously that you only get 150 miles to a tank- that cant be right. Get it in to a specialist to be properly looked at. Who fitted the head? Was it a problem befor?

I know this is off the point, what do you think of the BBR suspension mod- I'm considering this or a beefier anti roll bar- I'm getting a lot of unweighted wheel spin, off round abouts I'm leaving single stripes on the road.

S

[Basse]

If you feel the car needs low -and midrange power, a new pulley are not the answer to your problem as i see it. The ratio on the new pulley will result in your car being even slower in that area, because it's "tougher" for the engine getting the Supercharger to spin, cause of the ratio. In higher revs of course, there will be gains.
But if you feel you are missing out in the low -and midrange revs, i'm sensing you must get it checked - because with the mods made to your car, a problem like that shouldn't occur.

Am i totally off the hook here?

[obehave]

Quote: Originally Posted by Basse

If you feel the car needs low -and midrange power, a new pulley are not the answer to your problem as i see it. The ratio on the new pulley will result in your car being even slower in that area, because it's "tougher" for the engine getting the Supercharger to spin, cause of the ratio. In higher revs of course, there will be gains.
But if you feel you are missing out in the low -and midrange revs, i'm sensing you must get it checked - because with the mods made to your car, a problem like that shouldn't occur.

Am i totally off the hook here?

I don't know about off the hook but that first bit I've bolded is quite wrong

[Basse]

Quote: Originally Posted by obehave

I don't know about off the hook but that first bit I've bolded is quite wrong

Hmm. Well, okay.
It just seems as pure logic too me, but maybe someone can explain me wrong?

[62Lincoln]

The smaller diameter pulley causes the s/c to reach a given rpm more quickly because it spins the impellers sooner. Pullied cars generally develop their power sooner in the rpm range, but their power tends to drop off (compared to non pullied cars) in the higher rpm range because the smaller pulley overspins the s/c at high rpms, and the resulting excess heat and thermal inefficiencies diminish power.

[Basse]

Quote: Originally Posted by 62Lincoln

The smaller diameter pulley causes the s/c to reach a given rpm more quickly because it spins the impellers sooner. Pullied cars generally develop their power sooner in the rpm range, but their power tends to drop off (compared to non pullied cars) in the higher rpm range because the smaller pulley overspins the s/c at high rpms, and the resulting excess heat and thermal inefficiencies diminish power.

Ahr, okay. I was on the right track then..
Just the wrong assumption.

[St00ge]

you were right about one thing, the smaller the pulley is, the harder it is to spin, but the power required to drive the pulley is an exponential (roughly) function of the RPM. So basically at low RPM the power required to drive the smaller pulley is as near as makes no difference to the power required to drive the stock pulley. At higher RPM the power made by the extra boost produced by the smaller pulley is countered by the rising amount of power needed to drive it. (I think the extra heat produced is negligible, but everyone has their own opinion)

[Tonyt3]

Would not the answer be a larger crank pulley..... I have one fitted to my JCW, and the torque is good accross the rev range...

[St00ge]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tonyt3

Would not the answer be a larger crank pulley..... I have one fitted to my JCW, and the torque is good accross the rev range...

not really, all the crank pulley does is spin the whole pulley system faster, including the SC, and it reduces rotating mass, so there is less drag for the engine to deal with. it doesn't make the SC pulley any easier to spin

[lucachiarelli]

I have the gtt intercooler it works perfectly.

[Ant FR]

Ihad an interesting chat with Lohen the other day ad they said the GRS intercooler produced 5bhp more than the Alta Version 2 DFIC intercooler.

i have luckily just bagged myself a bargain £200 GRS intercooler thanks to Mini2 classifieds.