MINI2

mini mucker · Jun 20th, 2002, 10:29 PM

help ,does anyone have this prob,mini lowered 30mm all round on standard shocks,rear camber off,my rear left wheel is sitting in at an angle and slowly the inside of the tyre is wearing away,stuck on a set of 18ins and really i dont want to be forking out regulary for new tyres at the price of them,any help would be great!!
thanks

Rich_W · Jun 20th, 2002, 11:21 PM

Well, I don't have my MCS yet... but I already have a set of SPAX coilovers and 18's ready to go on as soon as the little fella comes home.

Questions

Now, I can't say I have experience with the Mini's but I've lowered several other cars, and this does not make sense.

Did you install the spring kit yourself?
What brand?
Could it be possible the spring is not seated in the perch correctly?
Is your ride height level?
Have you put it up on an alignment rack?

Is there a cam-type rear end alignment pivot in the Multi-link rear suspension? Could one have twisted during install?

Post some pics... so we can put our heads together and solve this.

-Rich

mini mucker · Jun 26th, 2002, 12:32 AM

no didnt install myself,car shop done the job,the springs are pi..havent really though about gettin someone to check it out as i didnt think there would be any1 about,ill try to get some pixs up asap!

paulmon · Jun 26th, 2002, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mini mucker
no didnt install myself,car shop done the job,the springs are pi..havent really though about gettin someone to check it out as i didnt think there would be any1 about,ill try to get some pixs up asap!

The stock control arms don't let you adjust for the negitive camber you are seeing. Most companies that lower your ride should install a "camber kit" to dial out this negitive camber. However it's possible, don't know for sure because I don't have my Mini yet, that there isn't a camber kit available for the Mini yet.

Check out Rogue, they are working on a ajustable rear control arm, here's their really ugly URL for it.

http://www.rogueengineering.com/Merc...egory_Code=SUS

Paul

mini mucker · Jun 26th, 2002, 12:57 AM

cheers

Sealevel · Jun 26th, 2002, 02:02 AM

Do any of these aftermarket suppliers have objective test data to show these kinds of mods do anything but bugger up a pretty nice suspension system? I mean, what the hell would automotive engineers know about handling and suspension geometry as opposed to a bunch of gadgeteers? But if this is purely for the sake of ricing up a car that needs to make no apolgies for itself in stock form, no rational argument will do, so please forgive me and carry on.

Basil · Jun 26th, 2002, 03:27 AM

ooooo......the "r" word.

Dom · Jun 26th, 2002, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sealevel
Do any of these aftermarket suppliers have objective test data to show these kinds of mods do anything but bugger up a pretty nice suspension system? I mean, what the hell would automotive engineers know about handling and suspension geometry as opposed to a bunch of gadgeteers? But if this is purely for the sake of ricing up a car that needs to make no apolgies for itself in stock form, no rational argument will do, so please forgive me and carry on.

I think at the end of the day, you get what you pay for. I know the Spax coilovers are better for the MINI - they're used by the John Cooper race cars... However, they're quite expensive @ £700...

Pi, on the other hand... have never really rated them too well... Sure it may look a little better, but I'd be quite sure Sport Suspension Plus would handle far superior...

Just my t'pence...

Dom

Keith · Jun 26th, 2002, 09:04 AM

Check out this description of the adjustable rear control arms from mini-madness: http://www.mini-madness.com/item.jht...2&PRID=1198700

It says: "When lowering the ride height on the Mini, additional and unwanted rear negative camber occurs. Unfortunately, the factory rear control arms to not allow for enough adjustment to dial out this undesired suspension geometry. By adjusting the lower rear control arm, you can now adjust the rear to within spec, or even more aggressive, depending on the need."

Mr.Chrome · Jun 26th, 2002, 11:28 AM

Hi peps!

This post has intrested me due to the fact that I also want to fit 18's, lower 30mm on a One with sports suspension!

How much do u think these control arms will cost? I do anything to stop scrubbing that im currently getting on my 106!

Take care!

Andy

Keith · Jun 26th, 2002, 02:05 PM

I called Rogue engineering to ask about them. They said they expect them to be available around the end of the summer with a "target price" of $250.

Bilbo Baggins · Jul 5th, 2002, 12:21 AM

My dealer had a MINI Cooper that they had installed several of the aftermarket options available from MiniMania.com. One of the options was the spring kit that lowered the car 30mm. One quick drive was enough to convience me that I didn't want to spend my money to lower my MCS.

The ride was just short of brutal. I didn't shake any fillings lose, but came close. And, that wasn't even on very rough roads. Expansion joints were bad enough.

If you are going to race the car, Fine! As a street driver, No way! You couldn't GIVE me the springs for a street ride. If you are going to be a "poser" and want the "look" but don't plan to do much driving then, OK, go for it.

arno · Jul 5th, 2002, 07:38 PM

I'm waiting my Hamann spring kit (-20 front/-35mm rear) monday i'm hope, i'm can tell more after this date

arno · Sep 11th, 2002, 08:07 AM

I'm install it the last week

bigahead · Sep 11th, 2002, 06:49 PM

seems like if some of you guys had a porsche you'd want to stick a bigger spoiler on that as well.

Bilbo Baggins · Sep 11th, 2002, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Basil
ooooo......the "r" word.

ROTFLMAO

Right on Basil!!!

Bilbo Baggins · Sep 11th, 2002, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigahead
seems like if some of you guys had a porsche you'd want to stick a bigger spoiler on that as well.

Ohhh,ohhh.....and some polished chrome wheels, and...and...some neon lights under the rocker panels and around the license plate......Yeah that's it
1

PureGo · Sep 11th, 2002, 10:41 PM

I bought a set of Eibach srpings from Carvogue to go along with my 18" wheels for my MCS. I was told when installed, the ride height would only be lowered by 15mm instead of 30mm, because the Cooper S already rides lower than regular Coopers. I don't know if this was peculiar to the Eibachs only, as all other makes of springs I have seen and read all seem to indicate a 30mm lowering effect. I would appreciate any comments or advices. Thanks!

paulpdt · Sep 12th, 2002, 04:09 AM

Does this mean a MC with SS+ is also lower than STD ?
by 15 mm ?

Anyone able to clear this matter up ?

Racer · Sep 12th, 2002, 05:15 AM

Hope this helps

If you have only replaced your springs to lower the car and not your shocks the shocks are permanently compressed by 30mm

When you take a right hand bend and the rear right wheel has weight taken off it the shock extends by upto 30mm (it wants to get back to full length) at this point the inside of your tyre now contacts the ground more than the outside (because it reverts to neg camber)this is where the wear occurs not on the left hand side I would consider buying shorter shocks

To allow the wheel / tyre to sit as squarely as poss' on the ground under all conditions you need to have shocks which are shorter

Changing springs (rates and/or length) and leaving the original shocks will always be a compromise - The Spax RSX kit used by JCC cars have different shocks as well as springs which are 'matched' this is why we don't have the same problem

Jun 20th, 2002, 10:29 PM	#1
mini mucker MINI2 Regular Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: n.ireland Local Time: 10:01 AM Posts: 186 Offline	If u have lowered your mini please enter! help ,does anyone have this prob,mini lowered 30mm all round on standard shocks,rear camber off,my rear left wheel is sitting in at an angle and slowly the inside of the tyre is wearing away,stuck on a set of 18ins and really i dont want to be forking out regulary for new tyres at the price of them,any help would be great!! thanks DoNt DrInK aNd DrIvE,sMoKe AnD fLy HoMe!!!!!

Jun 20th, 2002, 11:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rich_W MINI2 Regular Join Date: May 2002 Local Time: 10:01 AM Posts: 97 Offline	Yikes! Well, I don't have my MCS yet... but I already have a set of SPAX coilovers and 18's ready to go on as soon as the little fella comes home. Questions Now, I can't say I have experience with the Mini's but I've lowered several other cars, and this does not make sense. Did you install the spring kit yourself? What brand? Could it be possible the spring is not seated in the perch correctly? Is your ride height level? Have you put it up on an alignment rack? Is there a cam-type rear end alignment pivot in the Multi-link rear suspension? Could one have twisted during install? Post some pics... so we can put our heads together and solve this. -Rich

Jun 26th, 2002, 12:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
mini mucker MINI2 Regular Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: n.ireland Local Time: 10:01 AM Posts: 186 Offline	no didnt install myself,car shop done the job,the springs are pi..havent really though about gettin someone to check it out as i didnt think there would be any1 about,ill try to get some pixs up asap! DoNt DrInK aNd DrIvE,sMoKe AnD fLy HoMe!!!!!

Jun 26th, 2002, 12:40 AM	#4 (permalink)
paulmon MINI2 Senior Derelict Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mississauga(Toronto) Local Time: 06:01 AM Posts: 774 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by mini mucker no didnt install myself,car shop done the job,the springs are pi..havent really though about gettin someone to check it out as i didnt think there would be any1 about,ill try to get some pixs up asap! The stock control arms don't let you adjust for the negitive camber you are seeing. Most companies that lower your ride should install a "camber kit" to dial out this negitive camber. However it's possible, don't know for sure because I don't have my Mini yet, that there isn't a camber kit available for the Mini yet. Check out Rogue, they are working on a ajustable rear control arm, here's their really ugly URL for it. http://www.rogueengineering.com/Merc...egory_Code=SUS Paul Southern Ontario MINI Club

Jun 26th, 2002, 12:57 AM	#5 (permalink)
mini mucker MINI2 Regular Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: n.ireland Local Time: 10:01 AM Posts: 186 Offline	cheers DoNt DrInK aNd DrIvE,sMoKe AnD fLy HoMe!!!!!

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Jun 26th, 2002, 02:02 AM	#6 (permalink)
Sealevel MINI2 Regular Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Local Time: 05:01 AM Posts: 281 Offline	Do any of these aftermarket suppliers have objective test data to show these kinds of mods do anything but bugger up a pretty nice suspension system? I mean, what the hell would automotive engineers know about handling and suspension geometry as opposed to a bunch of gadgeteers? But if this is purely for the sake of ricing up a car that needs to make no apolgies for itself in stock form, no rational argument will do, so please forgive me and carry on. Steve Cooper S: Pure silver/black, Premium, Sport, Black leatherette, 17" R90, 4/19 build, 5/24 delivery.

Jun 26th, 2002, 03:27 AM	#7 (permalink)
Basil MINI2 Master Join Date: Nov 2001 Local Time: 08:01 PM Posts: 5,956 Offline	ooooo......the "r" word.

Jun 26th, 2002, 08:15 AM	#8 (permalink)
Dom Test thread infiltrator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Swindon Local Time: 11:01 AM Posts: 8,420 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by Sealevel Do any of these aftermarket suppliers have objective test data to show these kinds of mods do anything but bugger up a pretty nice suspension system? I mean, what the hell would automotive engineers know about handling and suspension geometry as opposed to a bunch of gadgeteers? But if this is purely for the sake of ricing up a car that needs to make no apolgies for itself in stock form, no rational argument will do, so please forgive me and carry on. I think at the end of the day, you get what you pay for. I know the Spax coilovers are better for the MINI - they're used by the John Cooper race cars... However, they're quite expensive @ £700... Pi, on the other hand... have never really rated them too well... Sure it may look a little better, but I'd be quite sure Sport Suspension Plus would handle far superior... Just my t'pence... Dom

Jun 26th, 2002, 09:04 AM	#9 (permalink)
Keith MINI2 Senior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SW Florida Local Time: 10:01 AM Posts: 683 Offline	Check out this description of the adjustable rear control arms from mini-madness: http://www.mini-madness.com/item.jht...2&PRID=1198700 It says: "When lowering the ride height on the Mini, additional and unwanted rear negative camber occurs. Unfortunately, the factory rear control arms to not allow for enough adjustment to dial out this undesired suspension geometry. By adjusting the lower rear control arm, you can now adjust the rear to within spec, or even more aggressive, depending on the need." 2007 DS/W MCS LSD, sport suspension, Enkei RPM2 wheels 2002 EB/W MCS Sport package, Rogue intake, Borla exhaust, 15% pulley & Madness sway bar

Jun 26th, 2002, 11:28 AM	#10 (permalink)
Mr.Chrome MINI2 Regular Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hextable (Nr.Dartfor Local Time: 10:01 AM Posts: 82 Offline	Yuk! Dont like scrubbage! Hi peps! This post has intrested me due to the fact that I also want to fit 18's, lower 30mm on a One with sports suspension! How much do u think these control arms will cost? I do anything to stop scrubbing that im currently getting on my 106! Take care! Andy Mini Cooper Ordered For Jan'03 - Silver/Black Roof, Chilli Pack, Xenons, ASC+T, Auto A/C, Heated Seats, Multimeadia ICE Planned Plus Some Cosmetic Changes!

Jun 26th, 2002, 02:05 PM	#11 (permalink)
Keith MINI2 Senior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SW Florida Local Time: 10:01 AM Posts: 683 Offline	I called Rogue engineering to ask about them. They said they expect them to be available around the end of the summer with a "target price" of $250. 2007 DS/W MCS LSD, sport suspension, Enkei RPM2 wheels 2002 EB/W MCS Sport package, Rogue intake, Borla exhaust, 15% pulley & Madness sway bar

Jul 5th, 2002, 12:21 AM	#12 (permalink)
Bilbo Baggins MINI2 Master Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Shire, Middle Earth Local Time: 06:01 AM Posts: 8,852 Offline	Lower 30mm? My dealer had a MINI Cooper that they had installed several of the aftermarket options available from MiniMania.com. One of the options was the spring kit that lowered the car 30mm. One quick drive was enough to convience me that I didn't want to spend my money to lower my MCS. The ride was just short of brutal. I didn't shake any fillings lose, but came close. And, that wasn't even on very rough roads. Expansion joints were bad enough. If you are going to race the car, Fine! As a street driver, No way! You couldn't GIVE me the springs for a street ride. If you are going to be a "poser" and want the "look" but don't plan to do much driving then, OK, go for it. Motor on, Dudes and Dudettes!!! '06 MCS SB/S '02 MCS DS/W (retired)

Jul 5th, 2002, 07:38 PM	#13 (permalink)
arno MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Paris - France Local Time: 12:01 PM Posts: 78 Offline	I'm waiting my Hamann spring kit (-20 front/-35mm rear) monday i'm hope, i'm can tell more after this date

Sep 11th, 2002, 08:07 AM	#14 (permalink)
arno MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Paris - France Local Time: 12:01 PM Posts: 78 Offline	I'm install it the last week

Sep 11th, 2002, 06:49 PM	#15 (permalink)
bigahead MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: south west Local Time: 11:01 AM Posts: 315 Offline	seems like if some of you guys had a porsche you'd want to stick a bigger spoiler on that as well.

Sep 11th, 2002, 07:09 PM	#16 (permalink)
Bilbo Baggins MINI2 Master Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Shire, Middle Earth Local Time: 06:01 AM Posts: 8,852 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by Basil ooooo......the "r" word. ROTFLMAO Right on Basil!!! Motor on, Dudes and Dudettes!!! '06 MCS SB/S '02 MCS DS/W (retired)

Sep 11th, 2002, 07:18 PM	#17 (permalink)
Bilbo Baggins MINI2 Master Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Shire, Middle Earth Local Time: 06:01 AM Posts: 8,852 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by bigahead seems like if some of you guys had a porsche you'd want to stick a bigger spoiler on that as well. Ohhh,ohhh.....and some polished chrome wheels, and...and...some neon lights under the rocker panels and around the license plate......Yeah that's it 1 Motor on, Dudes and Dudettes!!! '06 MCS SB/S '02 MCS DS/W (retired)

Sep 11th, 2002, 10:41 PM	#18 (permalink)
PureGo MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hong Kong Local Time: 06:01 PM Posts: 110 Offline	I bought a set of Eibach srpings from Carvogue to go along with my 18" wheels for my MCS. I was told when installed, the ride height would only be lowered by 15mm instead of 30mm, because the Cooper S already rides lower than regular Coopers. I don't know if this was peculiar to the Eibachs only, as all other makes of springs I have seen and read all seem to indicate a 30mm lowering effect. I would appreciate any comments or advices. Thanks!

Sep 12th, 2002, 04:09 AM	#19 (permalink)
paulpdt MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Stourbridge Local Time: 11:01 AM Posts: 89 Offline	Dropped Does this mean a MC with SS+ is also lower than STD ? by 15 mm ? Anyone able to clear this matter up ?

Sep 12th, 2002, 05:15 AM	#20 (permalink)
Racer Sponsor,Moderator & Racer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kent Local Time: 11:01 AM Posts: 1,308 Offline	Shocks not spring Hope this helps If you have only replaced your springs to lower the car and not your shocks the shocks are permanently compressed by 30mm When you take a right hand bend and the rear right wheel has weight taken off it the shock extends by upto 30mm (it wants to get back to full length) at this point the inside of your tyre now contacts the ground more than the outside (because it reverts to neg camber)this is where the wear occurs not on the left hand side I would consider buying shorter shocks To allow the wheel / tyre to sit as squarely as poss' on the ground under all conditions you need to have shocks which are shorter Changing springs (rates and/or length) and leaving the original shocks will always be a compromise - The Spax RSX kit used by JCC cars have different shocks as well as springs which are 'matched' this is why we don't have the same problem JCW Club Sport Kawasaki Green / White Unofficial John Cooper Challenge Site

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