[boobels]

On my 13 miles journey to work this morning sitting in traffic the usual. half a mile from work the following lights appeared on the dashboard: ABS, EML, DSC, airbags, engine. Then the radio went off, the clock and the sat nav went off, quickly followed by the power steering - jeez these cars are heavy.

Anyway got it towed to the dealership where it has been sat most of the day with people working on it - still no closer to figuring out what it is. The battery is completely dead and won't hold a charge but I am being told that it might be anything from a throttle body to a new ECU as well as a knackered battery.

Anyone out there a bit more savvy than me have any ideas? Just seems like this is going to cost a hell of a lot of money that I really don't have.

[Jamjarjames]

possibly an alternator problem?

[boobels]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jamjarjames (original)

possibly an alternator problem?

Cheers James, one of my first thoughts. Problem is the dealership have had the battery on charge since noon today, they started the car fine at about 4pm. Drove it around briefly and it was fine. Went to start it to get it valeted and the thing wouldn't start - the battery was dead - it had only sat stationary for about 10 minutes. Inclined to believe the battery is dead rather than the alternator.

Thing that worries me is it could be a new wiring loom =

[thebadun]

Sounds as if something is shorting the battery out, causing it to drain. Although that doesn't really explain the lights going on? But a friend had something stuck in her cigarette lighter which was causing her battery to short and drain really quickly, that was on an older car that doesn't have all the safety systems and complex computer that the MINI has.

[Capsaisin]

My first guess would be that the battery just died. The whole car is controlled by electronics including the battery charging circuit, and if the battery died my guess is it would shut the car down.

I would imagine a new battery will cure the problem.

[mella yella fella]

yep,i would say dead cell(s) in battery too.

and at least its the cheapest option. dont let your dealer charge you stupid money if it is only the battery

[boobels]

Right an update on this for you.

The dealer had the car all of friday and tested the alternator, the throttle body, wiring loom and other bits and pieces and can't find a fault. The battery was put on trickle charge for 12 hours overnight and the car worked perfectly in the morning. Dealer had it out on the road and everything was fine. SO I go to pick it up in the evening - damn thing won't start, battery is showing black. Dealer is none the wiser as it started 10 minutes earlier to be driven back to the car park after valeting.

So as off saturday they still don't have a clue what is wrong with it but are convinced it is not the battery. They claim that the alternator is fine and there are no faults showing up on the ECU. I am rapidly running out of patience and cash. Any ideas would be gratefully received.

thanks

[Jon Robson]

Something is going open circuit and causing everything to stop. Probably the earth strap between the battery and the body, or possibly the one between body and engine.

[oldmots]

Quote: Originally Posted by boobels (original)

Right an update on this for you.

The dealer had the car all of friday and tested the alternator, the throttle body, wiring loom and other bits and pieces and can't find a fault. The battery was put on trickle charge for 12 hours overnight and the car worked perfectly in the morning. Dealer had it out on the road and everything was fine. SO I go to pick it up in the evening - damn thing won't start, battery is showing black. Dealer is none the wiser as it started 10 minutes earlier to be driven back to the car park after valeting.

So as off saturday they still don't have a clue what is wrong with it but are convinced it is not the battery. They claim that the alternator is fine and there are no faults showing up on the ECU. I am rapidly running out of patience and cash. Any ideas would be gratefully received.

thanks

The battery is dead, just replace it. It should never have been recharged at the dealer. When test show nothing is wrong with the system, there is no reason to charge the battery, it's shot. If they don't pay attention to the tests, why do them?

[MINI-Morgan]

A couple of things dont seem right to me.... either its a weird battery failure or like has been mentioned something is draining the battery fast. But for a car to just stall with all the lights on? Hmmm maybe the battery failed and caused the voltage to go to high without the load and shutdown. But then there is load caused by the ignition system. Did the abs/airbag lights stay on when the clock went off? Would have to be a major fire starting fault to kill a battery that quick.

Try a new battery as a first point of call. There's nothing to loose Also check how hot the battery is cause from memory shorted cells from build up of deposits cause quite a bit of heat. And just because the car runs one minute doesnt mean the battery is ok as the charging from the alternator might be whats triggering the battey off and you are just running on the power provided by the alternator.

[DaFlake]

Sounds to me like a dead battery. The MINI battery is garbage and dies quickly without notice. More than likely you have a dead cell.

Anyway, I would try a new battery.

[boobels]

cheers guys.

After 4 days and no joy with the dealership I gave up and bought a new battery and installed it myself. Stopped off at a local indie on the way home. They had a look and within 30 mins told me that the alternator was fried. So looks like I am going to have to stump up the best part of £300 to get a new one.

What concerns me is that the dealership tested the alternator 3 times (allegedly) and told me each time that there was nothing wrong with it. I have seen the internals of the unit and it is fried, charred and useless. How they didn't pick up on it is amazing.

Hopefully I get my car back tomorrow after over a week of it sitting in bits in various garages.

I can't believe that the alternator has gone after only 40k miles. I have had cars that have done 3 times that and not had the alternator look as destroyed as this one does.

[DaFlake]

It is a fairly common part to fail on any car. 40K does seem a little shy, but I have replaced them at as low as 15 on some cars. 300 pounds seems very high for the cost, who is doing the work? You didn't take it back to the dealer that didn't know something was wrong with it did you?

If you are out of warranty, I highly suggest that you find a good local garage.

[Capsaisin]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaFlake (original)

Sounds to me like a dead battery. The MINI battery is garbage and dies quickly without notice. More than likely you have a dead cell.

Anyway, I would try a new battery. Also, a simple test to see if the alternator is bad is to disconnect the battery while the car is running. If the car dies, the alternator is toast....

Unless you have everything switched on to load the alternator, if you disconnect the battery you will blow the regulator pack in the alternator. Is this not the case with the MINI?

[DaFlake]

There is a load on it.... The car runs off of the alternator, not the battery.

[Capsaisin]

Sure, but the alternator is impedance matched to the battery, not the standard car circuitry. We are obviously going to disagree on this, but I was brought up to understand that if you wanted to diconnect the battery, you had to switch on the headlights and maybe also the heater blower.

If you wanted to isolate the battery, for example on a circuit car, you couldn't just fit an on-off switch, the switch had to have a built in ballast resistor which cut across the alternator to prevent it frying.

[MINI-Morgan]

News to me too.... my personal opinion would be that the power steering pump, ignition system and endless list of ECUs will provide enough load A charged battery will only load the alternator max of half an amp! And before I get loads of responses I did say Charged! so a battery after 30mins running.

Here's the but! But the alternator cant account for surges in power where the battery normally acts as a big capacitor so how would it cope alternatively..... hmmmm

If someone ever tries it let us know! Just dont touch the positive against the chassis with the engine running

[DaFlake]

LOL, I have done it. I did it when my car battery died about a year ago as I wanted to make sure my alternator wasn't bad. No problems so for.

As mentioned by MINI-Morgan, the battery isn't putting that much of a load on the car. It is your car system that is providing the load.

Anyway, we are talking about trouble shooting a system that is already having problems. The other method is to simply breakout the multi meter and test it. Both are easy to do....

[MINI-Morgan]

Like above a simple voltage check should tell you if its working ok. Or put the alternator in series through the multimeter if it supports amps too see how much its providing. All very simple stuff any half decent mechanic should be able to do..... well hopefully.

[oldmots]

I agree, without the battery, all kinds of stray currents develop which can wreak havoc with chips. It is not smart to remove the battery and run the motor, sometimes you will be lucky, other times, you will fry stuff. I have seen alternators melt down and smoke in shops where characters did this.