[Cooper '06]

Hi, i will tell you the story, i was out last night with a group of friends and we all drove to this club in town, and they all got very drunk (i wasn't drinking) when we left i figured we were getting a taxi back but my friends had other ideas, anyway after lots of arguing it was clear they were going to drive weather i condoned it or not, so i offered to drive so that they didnt kill themselves or anyone else. obviously i had no insurance...

On my way home i was stopped by a police officer who was making random checks becasue there had been robberys in the area, when he gave me a producer note i immediatly told him i was not insured on the car, which he then said at least i was honest and it will work in my favour if i get asked to go to court.

now the thing is i have only had my licence for 4 weeks, so am still on probationary period (meaning 6 points and i have to take a retest) now i am hoping that the court will be leaniet with the fact i need the licence for my university course i start next year and they fact i was doing the safer option.

my questions are that is there any leniency at the courts deiscretion on the amount of points given (driving with no insurance is a minimum of 6 - 8 on all the websites) and if anyone has had experience with being caught driving with no insurance.

i would like to take amoment to say that under normal cicumstances i would never drive a car uninsured but i felt this was the safest thing for me to do.

please express your views....

thankyou

P.s sorry about the spelling

Kyle

[dave_cooper_s]

From what I have heard from previous cases, the courts do have a certain amount of discretion. In your cicumstances, and providing you are well mannered and well presented, you just need to hope they see things from your point of view.

The lack of driving experience will obviously count against you but in the cicumstances (although I dont agree with what you did), I can see the reasoning behind it and I hope the give a punishment to suit - i.e let you keep your liscense

All the best with it mate

Dave

[dannit]

in a situation like that my friend, make sure you are not in any danger ie: take a taxi alone, and if you are aware of your friends putting themselfs or others in danger im affraid the only smart thing to do is ring the police. if they feel they are big enough to drive drunk then the should be big enough to deal with the concicense. although i do understand your point of view. in theory you did the safe thing, i hope things go your way!

[Paul]

I can only echo the above, looking from outside in it was a bad call to do what you did (driving uninsured is NEVER a good idea), but it does seem you honestly felt you were taking the best option available, so the courts may take some pitty. I can't speak from any personal experience of this though.

[dietcokeplease]

Kyle,

Double check to see if you are insured or not.

If you have your own comprehensive insurance then most policies allow you to drive another car with 3rd party cover. However this only applies if the car you are driving is already insured. But I do know that rights to drive another car are restricted for younger drivers.

In a way you did the right thing despite it being wrong.

[Paul]

Good point DC, I know with my insurance that didn't come in until I was 25 though. But it could be a lifeline!

[moonshine]

my wife was caught out in this manner about 18 months ago.

Her mother has Parkinsons Disease and she asked Ellie to take her car to the garage, about 2 min from the house, to fill it up, as it is difficult for her to operate the pump.
Ellie drives an MX5 and her mum drives a 1.1 auto Fiesta. and ellie was 25 at the time, though 24 when she took out her policy.
as she pulled out of the petrol station, she forgot it was an auto and collected a passing car (and did about 2K worth of damage to each car (the fiesta was beyond economic repair)
No one was hurt , but a beat bobby was passing and took datails and gave ellie a producer. it was only when we got home we found out that although having fully comp on her MX%, because she was under 25 when she took out her policy, she was not entiltled to drive other cars 3rd party.

When we took her producer to the station, the desk bobby was surprised re the insurance not allowing 3rd party cover, but he had no option but to charge both ellie (for driving with no insurance) and her mother for letting her take the vehicle without valid insurance. The alternative was that Ellie took the vehicle without the owners consent (i.e. theft) even although it was an honest mistake.

We prety much S##t ourselves as you are looking at between 6 - 10 points, possible ban and a IS10 (or something like this ) on the licence, i.e driving without insurance.

The dedk bobby was really understanding and told us there and then that it was unlikely to go to court and unlikely to result in points or a fine as this was her first "offence" and it was clear there were mittigating cirvcumstances, i.e an honest mistake. not much. consolation tho.

About 4 months later, we got a letter from the Procurators Fiscal office (i don't know the english equivelent - CPS maybe) which gave a stiff wrap on the knuckles and pretty much said that in this case no action would be taken, however if she came across his desk agian, prosecution would happen.

we breathed a big sigh of relief and that was that. We paid to get the 3rd parties car fixed and ellies mother accepted that it was an honest mistake and had to accept that her car was written off and wasn't insured.

I think we wrote an appologetic letter to the Procurator Fiscal explaining the circumstances and that she thought she was insured 3rd party for any vehicle as she had fully comp on her car. we found out the case no from the officer who filled in the crime report (the one who gave the producer), as he is the one who follows up the case.

Insurance is one of the few "crimes" for which "Strict Liability" is applied, i.e, not knowing you were uninsured is no defence, and there are very few cases where you can qualify for an exception - pretty much life or death or at gunpoint.

I used to have a very black and white view on driving with no insurance, however because of our experience, it is moderated slightly (not much) as our case (and there must be others) that are accidental and far removed from the banned driver / chav / theif / who just doent pat their premium. unfortunately the letter of the law doesn't differenciate and it needs the common sense of the Procurator Fiscal to see that prosecution isn't in the public interest.

Yes ellie broke the law, it was accidental, we paid a large financial cost in putting things right and thankfully, this was recognised by the Fiscal.

I think your best tack is to go to the station, present your producer along with your fully comp documents and say that as you were fully comp, you thought you were covered third party. It won't stop you from being charged, cautioned and all that, but id you make sure that they copy your existing documents to accompamy your charge sheet, then it might assist in the future.

Sorry to hear about your problem,
All the best in resolving it but it won't be a plesant wait to find out your fate, sorry i can't be of much more assistance

[Judge Cooper S]

Saw this thread and thought I might be able to answer ur question.

I am a Magistrates' legal adviser (the person u'll see sitting in front of the 3 magistrates when u go to court who advises the Bench on the law).

The magistrates have no discretion when it comes to awarding penalty points for no insurance. They HAVE to award 6 to 8. For you, this will mean that DVLA (not the court) will then revoke ur licence and u will have to do ur test again.

There is an oddity tho in relation to the law re: new drivers probationary period and that is DVLA do not revoke ur licence if u recieve a period of disqualification instead of penalty points. However strictly speaking the court will only disqualify for no insurance if they think the offence is serious enough to do so. Also if you have a disqualification recorded, even if for a short period, that may have ramifications when getting insurance later on. This is the only way I can see that you could avoid a retest.

There are 2 possible outcomes:

1) You recieve 6 to 8 points and a fine followed by dvla revoking ur licence.

2) the court disqualifies u for whatever period they think fit and u get a fine but can get ur licence returned after the disqualification period.

You will be given the chance to address the court before they sentence you. It is open to you to try to persuade them to disqualify you to avoid revocation by dvla if that is the option u go for. Be up front with them about why you are asking them to do that (ie to avoid having to do a re-test) but be aware of difficulties you may have re insurance renewals later (although I'm not sure of the position about that to be honest) and the fact that they may decide to impose the points instead. They will then make the decision. Best of luck. If u want to ask any questions PM me and I'll be happy to help if i can (although I dont check site every day.)

[mooneymini]

I had a friend who had exactly the same thing. He got 6 points, and as he was within his probationary period he had to retake his test. You wont be banned. He got his points in october of last year and has just got back on the roads again

[Cooper '06]

Thanks for all your resposnses they have been really helpful.

I was wondering if anyone knows if there is a time limit set before i can retake my test if i do get the 6 points? or could i go out the next weke and appply for a enw licence and book my theory etc?

thankyou again for all your help

Kyle

[windyrich]

peer pressure, next time take the keys and take a taxi.........if you are not insured then what would happen if you do have an accident injuring or even killing someone, I am sure your friends will forgive you of the next day if you took the keys and taxi even if they might think differently on the night.
You may have lost your license over this one having only passed 4 weeks ago, more lessons, retake the test not to mention increasing your own insureance for years to come........a valuble lesson learned I hope

[Cooper '06]

Thanks for your input, i was asking for advice not a lecture, next time im looking for a lecture ill surely PM you.

kyle

[windyrich]

It wasn't meant as a lecture, but the advice was to THINK next time, although you probably thought at the time you WERE doing the right thing, this could be a reason why young drivers are paying more for their insurance as they still have lots to learn!

[Adrian_T]

I have an idea

Say your name is smith and your address is on a local travellers site.
This is a surefire way of avoiding prosecution for most offences including Murder (just ask the residents of Cottenham) If this does go to court ask all and sundry if they need their drives tarmac-ing or any landscape work done - this should prove that you are above the law and hence you can go back to your day to day business.

Sorry for the Sarcasm but I hate producers. The last I had was for reporting someone driving into my car and driving off. I had witnesses and numberplates but the only action taken was to annoy me by giving me a producer. Think Imay change my name too....

[MarkW19]

Quote: Originally Posted by dietcokeplease

Kyle,

Double check to see if you are insured or not.

If you have your own comprehensive insurance then most policies allow you to drive another car with 3rd party cover. However this only applies if the car you are driving is already insured. But I do know that rights to drive another car are restricted for younger drivers.

In a way you did the right thing despite it being wrong.

As Paul said, I think most drivers aren't entitled to drive other cars until 25.

[Electric Blue]

Kyle, have you checked your insurance policy, I`m assuming you have one for your own car?

[MarkW19]

Quote: Originally Posted by Electric Blue

Kyle, have you checked your insurance policy, I`m assuming you have one for your own car?

lol

[Cooper '06]

Just a quick update on proceedings, i was cleared of all charges under mitigrating circumstances today so i left with a clean licence.

Thanks to everyone who posted valuble advice.

Kyle

[minicore]

I appreciate that this is an old thread, but as an FYI - the probationary period is actually 2 years, not 5. From the DVLA site:

"If the number of valid penalty points shown on your driving licence total 6 or more during the two year probationary period immediately following your first driving test, your full driving licence will be revoked by DVLA until such time as you pass a further driving test."

And Kyle, that's good news. I can't condone driving without insurance, but considering the circumstances, I'm glad you've escaped unscathed.

[moonshine]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cooper '06

Just a quick update on proceedings, i was cleared of all charges under mitigrating circumstances today so i left with a clean licence.

Thanks to everyone who posted valuble advice.

Kyle

I'm happy fpr you kyle

I'm glad the often maligned british justice system has treated you with a dose of common sense, as it was clearly not in the public interest to pursue a case like this, like it was for ourselves.

I guess you have learned a valuable, if pretty unconfortable lesson regarding insurance and driving when uninsured - it isn't worth the heartache and sleepless nights, even if it was unintentional and i doubt you or your friends will do it after your experience.

Drive safely,

Gerry