[mikbmini]

Quote: Originally Posted by ben_jamin_Uk (original)

how about if you go over your annual estimated mileage? would that void your insurance?

Thats a tricky one, as in my Audi A4 I had told my insurance I would do 10,000 a year (it was my first car and I genuinely had no idea what mileage I would do). Anyway, I wrote it off, having owned it for a year and having driven about 16,000 miles. They never asked any questions, and payed up no problems.

I was thinking though. Say you insured your car for a year, and after 4 months, you got your MOT done. And then for arguments sake you had an accident 9 months into the year. If you had driven more than the quoted total mileage in the time between the MOT (as the mileage is recorded on the MOT) and the accident, then the insurers would have documented evidence that you had done to many miles thus giving them the oportunity to void your insurance. Although I don't know if they would go into that much detail.

I have never been asked the current mileage of any of my cars when buying insurance, so I can't see how they could prove it otherwise, without maybe contacing BMW to find out about your mileage at service vists etc. Although I doubt this information would be disclosed anyway, as BMW are not likely to stitch up their own customers for fear of losing business.

[mikbmini]

Also I don't know if anyones said about this but what about driving on your parents insurance? I know that this is totally illegal, but I'm sure that insurance companies are completely aware of this and don't stop it! I mean how often must a middle aged woman buy a second small car like a clio or something and happen to add her 17 year old son on the insurance! It totally obvious but is not often stopped.

I am very much guilty of this, 3 of my 5 cars have been on my Mums insurance, and another was on my girlfriends! I've only actually had one claim, and it was on my Mum's insurance at the time. Fortunately no questions were asked (perhaps due to the fact that the car in question was an Audi A4, which is not typical of a car driven on a parents insurance). I would never do that now, as my car is worth far more and definately not worth the risk of voided insurance. Plus my Mum drew the line when I bought a 1.8T A3 and said no more! Interestingly the insurance companies were far more picky and asked more questions when I put the car on my girlfriends insurance So I think they turn a blind eye a bit when it comes to insuring a car in a parents name.

[Randall Raines]

Quote: Originally Posted by Martin F (original)

It seems to me that there are two reasons why a claim may be refused:

1. Because of a failure to disclose a fact which would influence a prudent insurer whether to accept the risk for the premium; and

2. Because the particular loss is not covered by the policy.

If you put it that way, then basically, I agree with you, but if I'd have put that statement in my 1st post then this thread wouldn't have really helped anybody, I started this thread to try and make people aware of what they should notify their insurance of to avoid a rejected, voided claim (if this tread only helps 1 person, I'll be happy and feel that it was worth the effort) .

Quote: Originally Posted by Martin F (original)

In the first instance the policy is void. In the second instance the policy is not void but the loss is not covered.

Either way you're in a similar position and it means the same to most people, your left without a vehicle and either not enough money to cover the losses, repairs or no money at all to cover the losses, repairs ,vehicle , and there's not much that you can do about it without it costing you even more money £££££ .

Quote: Originally Posted by Martin F (original)

In some of the instances cited above I am unclear which of these possible causes gave rise to the avoidance of the claim. I would find it helpful to understand this. Insurers cannot arbitarily refuse a claim; they have to have a sound legal reason.

All of the above cases that I have cited that have been voided / rejected, have been (I have cited a couple of incidents and I have stated that they could have ultimately ended in a rejected / voided situation, in my opinion they could have easily done so).

None of the people involved in the cited cases set out to deliberately mislead the insurance companies (except, maybe post #2), as you can imagine most were totally shocked when the cases were rejected, however in some of the cases the insurance didn't stick to their initial reason for their rejection (by this I mean, they (claimants) received letters stating that the claim was being questioned because of 1 point, only to be finally rejected on another ) .

If I have to go into the ins & outs of each and every case I would be on here for days writing posts (some of the cited cases took up to 2 yrs to sort out), before it's said a couple of them are trying to take the matters further, however not everyone can do this and in my opinion insurance companies know this and play on that fact ).

Quote: Originally Posted by Martin F (original)

I certainly agree with the basic advice which is to make full disclosure to insurers of the risk. eg the spec of the car and the circunstances of the driver(s); and secondly to read the policy documentation carefully.

In a couple of cases involving me & my friends, queries have arisen and it has been down to errors through either confusion between both party's (not knowing what the other is asking for or providing cover for), or clerical errors (not adding things that they have been notified of, or not adding something that you asked for, other mistakes) on the insurances part resulting in the policy holder not being properly covered or not being insured through no fault of their own .

[Randall Raines]

Quote: Originally Posted by minisoopercooper (original)

funny you should mention documents as my renewal came through a few months ago. I noticed under modifications it listed none. When I set the policy up a year earlier - with a broker that briefly sponsored MINI2 - and spoke MINI (as they put it) I went through all the extras (ASC+T, alarm, mfsw, vis pack etc etc) and the stereo stuff and the 17" Bullet wheels and aero kit.

I immediately phoned the broker who contacted the insurance company and they said they have the full list on file but as they are all manufactures options that they didn't need to be listed on the documents - but ARE on the policy.

This thread is making me think it's worth a phone call direct to the insurance company to check.

Sorry guys, I didn't want to neglect my thread but I've been quite ill lately & didn't feel up-to replying to posts although I did visit .

"minisoopercooper" your case seems similar to "supa-dupa-cooper" (post #3), and one that I had, as long as your insurance does know about the mods you'll be OK, I agree that not all the mods don't have to be on all the documents (different insurance companies are not all the same, or have the same procedures), however they will have to be listed somewhere , again insurances are different on these issues as some will class a car as standard as from delivery (go off your original spec list when new) and then if you add something then that would be classed as a mod , others class a car as standard as from the manufacturers basic model and then any options are a mod .

However I and a friend of mine have had issues with insurance, in cases similar to yours it came down to "who told you that", "they no longer work here", "it's not our policy to tell customers that", so basically it comes down to your word against theirs and if they have a document that states no mods, then I would be a little wary, as a solicitor in court would be sure to point it out .

At the end of the day what's a phone call for piece of mind (Sorry if I've worried you at all ).

[Randall Raines]

Quote: Originally Posted by minijess (original)

I totally did not think about this but i am currently in 6th year at school but obviously will be leaving straight after my exams, i think im still enrolled untill july at school so on the insurance it would be student-school but i have to wait until Aug to get my exam results to see if i will be accepted to uni. will i have to put myself as unemployed for this 3/4 weeks then change it to student-uni?

"minijess" Personally I would've said you'd be OK as you are still intending to-go-on studying, it wont harm you to give them a call anyway, it would make a difference if you started delivering pizzas to get some cash in and then you had an accident while doing that and you had 20 pizzas all over the back seat and your pizza cap on the passenger seat, then you may be in a little trouble .

I would notify them if it was a permanent change, I would have thought that being a student would have been quite a high risk in all areas especially as our local collages seem to attract the car thieves (broken glass everywhere around collage ) .

[Randall Raines]

Quote: Originally Posted by ben_jamin_Uk (original)

how about if you go over your annual estimated mileage? would that void your insurance?

Thanks! for that "ben_jamin_Uk" but if someone got their claim rejected for that, then that would be their own fault as "Martin F" says " your insurance would be void for failure to disclose a material fact" (as you would have got cheaper insurance quoting a lower mileage usage ) as it would have / may have been the policy holder who provided the mileage info in the 1st place (so if you're in that situation either don't use the vehicle again or contact the insurance & get the policy readjusted, again another one that can get easily overlooked, and it could end up costing you dearly ) .

[Martin F]

Quote: Originally Posted by Randall Raines (original)

In a couple of cases involving me & my friends, queries have arisen and it has been down to errors through either confusion between both party's (not knowing what the other is asking for or providing cover for), or clerical errors (not adding things that they have been notified of, or not adding something that you asked for, other mistakes) on the insurances part resulting in the policy holder not being properly covered or not being insured through no fault of their own .

I agree that misunderstandings can cause problems. That is the trouble with doing things on the phone. I much prefer to do things in writing, whether by email or letter to confirm what has been agreed so there is no room for subsequent dispute.

For example, Norwich Union insist on describing my car as having"Replacement seats". In fact it has standard Chili pack seats and I have it in writing that that is what they mean. Not a problem in this case but it emphasises the scope for misunderstandings.

[astilla]

Quote: Originally Posted by supa-dupa-cooper (original)

MINI rejected/voided my insurance through not putting the 'mods' on the policy!!

I'm getting a new 'S' with loads of mods in March and have just been on the phone to Mini Insurance for nearly 45 mins and thought they were totally hopeless... I'm getting an 'S' with the JCW performance pack (amongst a load of other things) and found it nearly impossible to get through to them about what I was actually buying. On their web site they list an '02+ Cooper S Works' and an '06+ Cooper S'. I'm obviously buying an '06+ S' with dealer fitted Works pack (and other things but the insurance arm of Mini don't know one from the other. They also said they only had 6 spaces for mods on the instance form and would have to list anything else manually.

After 45 mins on the phone, where the person on the phone had to make 4 trips away from the phone to speak to the underwriter, I got some ridiculous quote of a £300 voluntary excess AND a £950 compulsory excess and a yearly quote of just under a grand a year. Adrian Flux quoted half that and knew exactly what I was talking about when I called them.

It just makes me feel nervous about insuring a car when the insurer doesn't have a clue. I think I want to send whoever I insure it with the actual sales invoice that shows the amount paid for the car and every single dealer fitted mod that has been attached to it.

What I'm actually buying can he found here: Aztec Monkey - Andrew Bate's random ramblings

(rant over....)

[mikbmini]

Quote: Originally Posted by astilla (original)

I got some ridiculous quote of a £300 voluntary excess AND a £950 compulsory excess and a yearly quote of just under a grand a year.

Count yourself lucky, my excess is slightly less than that but the policy is £2556 a year. And thats the best quote I could get!

[Woody'sCooper]

Good god!!

I'm 22, only have 1 years no claims (wrote a car off 2 years ago) and my S is £900 a year to insure

[mikbmini]

Another thing that confuses me and maybe someone here might be able to clear up is: what actually counts as a mod? In my opinion, if it is specced when the car is bought and fitted by the BMW factory or dealers then unless it alters the performance or the look of the exterior of the car then it shouldn't be counted as a mod. I'm sure insurance companies being the weasels they are might disagree.

I mean for example:
JCW sound kit = Mod
Aero Kit = Mod

However I can't see how alloys that are available on your model of car when new can be counted as a mod. I mean if you knew nothing about cars and you went out and bought a used MINI Cooper from the dealers that had S-Spokes, you can't be expected to know that they are non standard! No disrespect to my girlfriend but the only way she could differenciate between my Cooper S and a standard Cooper is by the scoop, she wouldn't have a clue if it had an aero kit or not, or wether there was a JCW steering wheel! So how can insurance companies be so damn picky when it comes to what is counted as a mod?

What about something as simple as an retro fitted armrest? Is that a mod? Or JCW seats? I can't see that an otherwise standard Cooper would be more likely to get stolen if it had JCW seats. Do thieves go around checking your interior before they steal your car?

Sorry if I'm getting off topic but these are questions I would like to know the answer to. I fear that all the examples I have given would probably be counted as Mods by insurers, what do others think?

[mikbmini]

Quote: Originally Posted by Woody'sCooper (original)

Good god!!

I'm 22, only have 1 years no claims (wrote a car off 2 years ago) and my S is £900 a year to insure

When I started the policy I was only just 21, and had written off a car over a year previous.

Interestingly, when I started the insurance I gave them the no. plate and they brought up the details. The details said it was a Cooper S. However I now know it is a Cooper S with Chili pack, and this is listed as a seperate car on their (Elephant.co.uk) website. Does this mean I'm not technically insured?

[Randall Raines]

Quote: Originally Posted by Martin F (original)

I agree that misunderstandings can cause problems. That is the trouble with doing things on the phone. I much prefer to do things in writing, whether by email or letter to confirm what has been agreed so there is no room for subsequent dispute.

For example, Norwich Union insist on describing my car as having"Replacement seats". In fact it has standard Chili pack seats and I have it in writing that that is what they mean. Not a problem in this case but it emphasises the scope for misunderstandings.

Is that because you have the "Sports Seats" (not Recaros or Works, just Little more shaped than the standard) option on your car, as these are a optional extra that you have to tick / spec when buying new (Sorry!, to add to the confusion I'm referring to the 1st Gen and you have a 2nd Gen according to your MINI profile ) .

[Randall Raines]

Quote: Originally Posted by mikbmini (original)

Thats a tricky one, as in my Audi A4 I had told my insurance I would do 10,000 a year (it was my first car and I genuinely had no idea what mileage I would do). Anyway, I wrote it off, having owned it for a year and having driven about 16,000 miles. They never asked any questions, and payed up no problems.

Again different insurances will be different, have different amounts of movement on the mileage as you can't just stop when you hit the mileage that you have stated, however I would have thought that that would have been one of the 1st things that they would've looked in-to as you quoted the 10,000 miles (our insurance company did ask "what mileage do you do approximately", but that is different to getting cheaper insurance saying you only do 10,000 miles a year and getting a quote on that fact .).

Quote: Originally Posted by mikbmini (original)

I was thinking though. Say you insured your car for a year, and after 4 months, you got your MOT done. And then for arguments sake you had an accident 9 months into the year. If you had driven more than the quoted total mileage in the time between the MOT (as the mileage is recorded on the MOT) and the accident, then the insurers would have documented evidence that you had done to many miles thus giving them the oportunity to void your insurance. Although I don't know if they would go into that much detail.

I have never been asked the current mileage of any of my cars when buying insurance, so I can't see how they could prove it otherwise, without maybe contacing BMW to find out about your mileage at service vists etc. Although I doubt this information would be disclosed anyway, as BMW are not likely to stitch up their own customers for fear of losing business.

On that point in this day & age it's very easy to check up-on mileages (especially if the car has had an MOT at some point) of cars providing that you have a valid interest in them (car), as every-thing's recorded on computers / databases (most now accessible to "Joe Public", Free Of Charge) .

Quote: Originally Posted by mikbmini (original)

Also I don't know if anyones said about this but what about driving on your parents insurance? I know that this is totally illegal, but I'm sure that insurance companies are completely aware of this and don't stop it! I mean how often must a middle aged woman buy a second small car like a clio or something and happen to add her 17 year old son on the insurance! It totally obvious but is not often stopped.

That could be illegal and not illegal depending on how you have done it, however in a lot of these cases it can look like you're covered by your insurance on paper (you could also get away with getting pulled by the police (although they will be clued up on these issues)), however in an accident it could turn out to be a totally different scenario .

Quote: Originally Posted by mikbmini (original)

I am very much guilty of this, 3 of my 5 cars have been on my Mums insurance, and another was on my girlfriends! I've only actually had one claim, and it was on my Mum's insurance at the time. Fortunately no questions were asked (perhaps due to the fact that the car in question was an Audi A4, which is not typical of a car driven on a parents insurance). I would never do that now, as my car is worth far more and definately not worth the risk of voided insurance. Plus my Mum drew the line when I bought a 1.8T A3 and said no more! Interestingly the insurance companies were far more picky and asked more questions when I put the car on my girlfriends insurance So I think they turn a blind eye a bit when it comes to insuring a car in a parents name.

Most people have been added to their parents insurance or got their parents to insure a car that they would never drive and add a named driver, am I right in thinking that the main policy holder should be the main driver and the named person should drive the vehicle from time to time (this would be nearly impossible to prove by an insurance company), also in those situations you need to be very weary of all the small print, as certain clauses in a policy can void a claim while carrying out this practise .

Quote: Originally Posted by mikbmini (original)

Count yourself lucky, my excess is slightly less than that but the policy is £2556 a year. And thats the best quote I could get!

My other ½'s 1st quote was nearly £3,000 for the 1st quote on a MINI without any No Claims (hence she had to drive a banger to get some No Claims 1st ).

Quote: Originally Posted by mikbmini (original)

When I started the policy I was only just 21, and had written off a car over a year previous.

Interestingly, when I started the insurance I gave them the no. plate and they brought up the details. The details said it was a Cooper S. However I now know it is a Cooper S with Chili pack, and this is listed as a seperate car on their (Elephant.co.uk) website. Does this mean I'm not technically insured?

??????? Not sure!, the problem with any of the issues that have been highlighted is that again different insurances are different & they will have different procedures (dealing with things, how things are listed, what mods are etc... etc...), and you only know how good or bad they are when you most need them, then it can be to late (everybody's insurances seem good when they're paying them their premium ££££££ ).

[Martin F]

Quote: Originally Posted by Randall Raines (original)

............................ am I right in thinking that the main policy holder should be the main driver and the named person should drive the vehicle from time to time (this would be nearly impossible to prove by an insurance company),..........

My MCS is actually registered in my wife's name but she rarely , if ever, drives it as she uses my car. This is not an issue as Norwich Union have been told and have no problem. However, I have noticed that if I try to get quotes online a lot of companies( including NU!) will not quote where the policy holder is not the main driver.

[Randall Raines]

Quote: Originally Posted by mikbmini (original)

When I started the policy I was only just 21, and had written off a car over a year previous.

Interestingly, when I started the insurance I gave them the no. plate and they brought up the details. The details said it was a Cooper S. However I now know it is a Cooper S with Chili pack, and this is listed as a seperate car on their (Elephant.co.uk) website. Does this mean I'm not technically insured?

Basically you will start off from the manufactures with a standard COOPER S, with whatever options that comes with as standard (before you start specking), then you can start adding packages, options, a package is normally the 1st step (a package can work out cheaper than individually specking items), in your case an S, chili package on a 1st Gen S was approx £1,370+ on top of the standard price, the package includes:

• Front Fog Lights.
• Height Adjustable Passenger Seat.
• Interior light Package (Reading Lights & Vanity Mirror Lights).
• Manual Air-conditioning.
• 17in S-Spoke Alloys.
• Front Sports Seats with Cloth / Leather Upholstery.
• Storage Compartment Package (Glove-box etc...).
• Velour Floor Mats.
• Xenon Headlights with Headlight Washer system.

So when you specify to your insurance a COOPER S Chili pack you will be including the extras listed above (and increasing the initial purchase price by approx £1,500), anything else is a further mod / option and just to add further confusion just because your MINI has all the above mods doesn't necessarily mean that it had a Chili pack from the start .

Quote: Originally Posted by mikbmini (original)

Another thing that confuses me and maybe someone here might be able to clear up is: what actually counts as a mod? In my opinion, if it is specced when the car is bought and fitted by the BMW factory or dealers then unless it alters the performance or the look of the exterior of the car then it shouldn't be counted as a mod. I'm sure insurance companies being the weasels they are might disagree.

Anything not standard equipment that is not part of a package, whether it's added when initially specking a MINI (for initial delivery / collection) or afterwards (added after initial delivery or collection) is classed as a option / mod, I used to think that when a car was actually initially collected from the main dealer, everything on that car was standard (not classed as a mod) but I have changed my opinion on that due to the MINI phenomenon (specking) hence my comment .

Quote: Originally Posted by mikbmini (original)

However I can't see how alloys that are available on your model of car when new can be counted as a mod. I mean if you knew nothing about cars and you went out and bought a used MINI Cooper from the dealers that had S-Spokes, you can't be expected to know that they are non standard! No disrespect to my girlfriend but the only way she could differenciate between my Cooper S and a standard Cooper is by the scoop, she wouldn't have a clue if it had an aero kit or not, or wether there was a JCW steering wheel! So how can insurance companies be so damn picky when it comes to what is counted as a mod?

What about something as simple as an retro fitted armrest? Is that a mod? Or JCW seats? I can't see that an otherwise standard Cooper would be more likely to get stolen if it had JCW seats. Do thieves go around checking your interior before they steal your car?

Gen 1 MINIs, MINI ONEs had 15in steel wheels with wheel-trims as standard, anything else was either part of a package or an option / mod, COOPERs had 15in 7 hole alloys as standard anything else is as part of a package (15in 8-spokes, 16in 5-spokes) or an option / mod (any other wheels), COOPER Ss had the 16in X-Lite alloys fitted as standard anything else is as part of a package (only 17in S-Spokes) or an option / mod (any other wheels), so although you could have any (almost) wheels fitted as an option when new they would still be classed as a mod either through a package or as an option / mod, and Yes! It's very confusing to people who know their MINIs, never mind those that don't (I don't just mean women, blokes to).

On the comment about thieves looking in cars to see what they have, most people with a MINI would like the "Works seats" so they are in high demand used, due to the price new, and also in high demand used due to them being few & far between (in MINIs) due to the price new, so lets say someone says to a thief "I'll give you so much if you can get me some of the "Works seats"", or the thief knows about the high demand, as this means that they would be easier to move on (turn in-to cash £££££), and the fact that most do try-to or get new front seats makes the ones removed less appealing as there are more about and supply outstrips demand effecting the price the other-way (down, less, less appealing).

So yes! They would go around looking for MINIs fitted with the Works seats, and if they found one, be more tempted to steal it rather than one fitted with standard seats (this also goes for other mods).

Quote: Originally Posted by mikbmini (original)

Sorry if I'm getting off topic but these are questions I would like to know the answer to. I fear that all the examples I have given would probably be counted as Mods by insurers, what do others think?

Again I have made my comment but again this could vary from insurance company to company and not all will have the same procedures .

Take a quick look at this thread, quick is the wrong word, (insurance) this thread is what prompted me to start this one, as well as some others (arguments involving what's classed as a mod).