[Randall Raines]

I have started this thread due to a number of other threads that have brought up issues on what you should / shouldn't notify your insurance of, in-case of a Voided, Void, Rejected or Cancelled Insurance Claim.

These issues are especially relevant to the MINI, as they are such an individual car and the owners can easily get caught up in the whole modding phenomenon that MINI owners love so much .

I have quite a number of "true life" incidents (through my job) which I will add from time to time.

Everyone has heard stories but please try and keep them factual incidents that you actually have had, know of or know that are true, as stories that have gone through a number of people don't always bear any resemblance to the original incident (Chinese Whispers, a bit extra thrown in to make it sound good).

I haven't started this thread as a "scare-monger", as I've been accused of being a couple of times before (on MINI2), I have started it because 1st of all it could be interesting (i for one am interested), but most importantly, to make people aware of what is / can be used to void, reject or cancel an insurance claim, hence more importantly, making them aware of what they (insurance companies) should be notified of.

I have searched, although I have seen a couple off post relating to this actual subject, no actual thread, hence this one .

Another thing that I would like to point out, is that some of my stories, true life incidents, refer to motor trade policy's and they are not the same as private policy's that most of you will have , also remember not all insurances / policy's are the same and what applies to one person may not apply to another so please try and keep dis-agreements to a minimum .

[Randall Raines]

This one never actually resulted in a voided, void, rejected or cancelled claim but it could have quite easily done so (it was a very close call) and it will be a common undisclosed mod , however I have heard of plenty similar cases (not only involving wheels) that have been voided, void, rejected or cancelled but this is one that I have personal experience of .

A friend of mine who is a bit of a bragger, walked into his insurance office when his insurance was due for renewal, he asked to up the value of the car, when asked why, he replied "due to my new £1,200 wheels (making sure everyone heard him)" his insurance quote then nearly doubled, he then replied "I'm not paying that much", his insurance then said "If you put those wheels on that car you're not insured", a couple of weeks later his car was stolen, yes!, you guessed it, it was found minus the wheels, he denied that he had actually fitted his new wheels , but as he had actually mentioned about them 2 wks earlier, so questions were raised, he did actually get paid out eventually, but only after a very long struggle, the only reason that he did actually get paid out was because of the lack of evidence, ie the wheels never turned up / got recovered whichever wheels he had fitted at the time (if he'd have had a crash with his new wheels on it would have been voided straight away ).

[supa-dupa-cooper]

You probably know mine by now RR

MINI rejected/voided my insurance through not putting the 'mods' on the policy!

I told them about the rear spoiler and decals when I first insured the car. No problems.
I then added Side skirts half way through the policy. No problems.
Renewal came through, no mods listed.
1 hour on the phone to MINI resulted in them admitting they had made a mistake and the car was not/ had not been properly insured (through no fault of my own!) and they would not renew the cover.

This would no doubt have caused problems if i'd needed to make a claim

[Randall Raines]

This one actually relates to a MINI, a friend of a close friend, got 3 points on his licence, they decided to put off telling their insurance as their renewal was up soon, but before the renewal date their MINI (less than 12 mths old) was stolen, they notified their insurance who seemed to be trying to get out of paying up from the start (have you got all the spare keys, where did you leave it etc... etc...), they then found out about the 3 points and voided the claim leaving the owner without a MINI, still actually paying for the original MINI as it was purchased on finance.

So what probably started of as trying to save a little money actually ended up costing them dearly .

So for those people who say, how do mods effect my insurance, how does 3 points on your licence make a difference whether someone steals your car or not, unless the points were for Drink Driving and they actually drove home Drunk and forgot to lock it up etc... etc... , I could understand if the car was crashed and the previous 3 points for Drink Driving, Dangerous Driving, Speeding, Jumping Lights etc... etc... could actually make it more likely that they may do it again and therefore increase the risk, I don't know what the 3 points were actually for in this case.

[Randall Raines]

This is an important risk factor that can catch many people out, especially if you change your job part way through a policy.

Another couple of incidents, someone doing a job for someone on their car, in his own car (all his work tools in the boot), while doing the job, his car keys fell out of his pocket, he carried on and finished the job without noticing that the keys where missing out of his pocket (someone didn't fail to notice though ), when he went in to wash his hands and to collect payment after putting everything (tools) in the boot, still without noticing that his keys where missing, however as he left he noticed his car had gone, tools and all .

After notifying his insurance, he actually said that he could tell that they didn't want to pay out from the start, saying that the keys where left in the vehicle, after winning that argument, explaining what had actually happened & why he was where he was at the time (the only way to get out of the 1st situation ) and to try and explain the couple of thousand (underestimated) pounds worth of tools in the boot (not just the jack & wheel-brace & other usual tools ), this then voided the full claim , so he actually tried to get paid out for just the car, only to be told "it doesn't work like that".

Someone that I know was stopped by the police, he was actually carrying something in the boot for work, however this looked suspicious to the police at the time, the police then contacted his insurance and they flatly refused that he was insured (covered on his policy) due to his load, this incident didn't even involve an accident or a claim and yet his insurance was voided, the same as above, he said that they (insurance) actually tried a couple of other excuses as well but then stuck on 1 (I think that they actually sent his premium back ).

Insurances can vary and most of them cover you to & from work (+ social, domestic & pleasure at dinner time, whichever one you indulge in ) you are supposed to notify them if you actually intend on using your vehicle in the course of your work (this applies to a private policy as well), it does not always cost any extra or cost much extra to do, you just need to notify them (insurance) for the extra risk factor , and to ensure that you're fully covered .

Don't lie to your insurance about what you actually do as a job just to get a cheaper quote as it can be a costly mistake (as you can be asked for proof) .

[Randall Raines]

Make sure your TAX & MOT are up-to date the road TAX is getting harder & harder to ignore these days and it's hard not to renew when it's due, but the MOT can easily be forgotten about, although this is not normally done intensionally it can still void a claim or get you into hot-water with the police .

An acquaintance of mine had his MINI go up in flames and while trying to make a claim, the insurance realised that the vehicle wasn't TAX'd at the time of the incident and voided the claim .

I have heard of plenty of incidents over the years that have resulted in voided claims due to expired MOTs .

As everything is done on computer now all this (MOTs & TAX) is very easy to check (real time, not days later), you will have clauses somewhere in your policy that mention this, the only get-out clause will be driving to & from a pre booked MOT.

Make sure your MOT due date is clearly displayed on your calender when you fill it in with all the school holidays & all the family & friends birthdays .

[Woody'sCooper]

Of course one of the other major reasons for claims being rejected is if the driver was proved to be 'under the influence' of either drink or drugs.

In my opinion, if you are stupid enough to drive like that, you have no one to blame except yourself

[sef]

Direct Line said they'd void my Insurance if I changed from Runflats to standard tyres...

[Randall Raines]

Quote: Originally Posted by Woody'sCooper (original)

Of course one of the other major reasons for claims being rejected is if the driver was proved to be 'under the influence' of either drink or drugs.

In my opinion, if you are stupid enough to drive like that, you have no one to blame except yourself

Thanks for replying, I was beginning to think that the tread was being ignored, or that only me and "supa-dupa-cooper" had had any experiences or advice on this subject .

On your point though, people also need to remember just because it's classed as the next day when they wake up even though they feel relatively OK they could still be under the influence of Drink or Drugs whether they think so or not, I know quite a few people (some traders & some Joe Public) who, although they wouldn't think of driving straight from the pub they will drive the next morning, and have done so, and been caught .

Yes! They'd only have themselves to blame!, someone could actually be unluckily enough to be in the right where the accident is concerned and then have a voided claim or a conviction for Drink Driving because someone ran in-to them (they'd have a conviction for DD because they were DD, no excuses) and the other person would ultimately get off with it (blame on the accident) , as you never know when somethings going to happen ) .

[Woody'sCooper]

I have to be so cautious these days myself as i now work in the Motor Trade, my job depends on my driving license and if i were to lose that, i would lose my job.

The worrying thing is, i do know people who will drink and then get behind the wheel and see no harm in doing so

[Randall Raines]

Quote: Originally Posted by sef (original)

Direct Line said they'd void my Insurance if I changed from Runflats to standard tyres...

Thanks for that "sef" as that point seems to be the subject of plenty of heated discussions in other threads on the subject of mods and what you need to let your insurance company know about. .

I have never had a problem myself, but I always tell them anyway , maybe that's why I've never had a problem .

[Lolance]

Same here. I was considering changing my tyres but if Direct Line don't insure non-runflats, then I won't change them until I come to renew my insurance.

[Woody'sCooper]

Thats quite an important point to raise about the tyres. I never thought it would make any difference.

However, my dealer threw in that poxy tyre insurance with my car, and they told me i had to notify both them and my insurance company if i changed from runflats to non-runflats

[Randall Raines]

This one is actually more of a tip, again common-sense, but again easy to overlook.

Double check your documents when you actually get them from your insurance, don't just file them or have a quick glance, check them over properly, as they are sometimes wrong and you can find out when it's to late .

This has actually happened to me and a close friend of mine, I had to add on a specific car on to my policy as there was a clause that actually excluded it from the normal policy unless it was specified, I went to TAX the said car with all my document in order, or so I thought, until I was refused TAX, as I wasn't covered on the vehicle (due to a typing error on my insurance certificate), I contacted the my insurance and they confirmed that I hadn't been covered on that car due to the error .

A close friend of mine insured a car, as it was an expensive car (£14,000), that he couldn't actually afford to loose, he had the car covered Fully Comp (he stated Fully Comp) as he was keeping the car for a while, he got his cover policy through , filed it as you do, on the next renewal date the premium nearly doubled, when he asked why, he was told that he had stated Fully Comp this time and that he was only covered 3rd Party last year .

Had either of us had have had a claim, they could have been voided, or we may not have had the cover that we thought that we had, so double check your documents and sort any mistakes straight away .

[minisoopercooper]

funny you should mention documents as my renewal came through a few months ago. I noticed under modifications it listed none. When I set the policy up a year earlier - with a broker that briefly sponsored MINI2 - and spoke MINI (as they put it) I went through all the extras (ASC+T, alarm, mfsw, vis pack etc etc) and the stereo stuff and the 17" Bullet wheels and aero kit.

I immediately phoned the broker who contacted the insurance company and they said they have the full list on file but as they are all manufactures options that they didn't need to be listed on the documents - but ARE on the policy.

This thread is making me think it's worth a phone call direct to the insurance company to check.

[minijess]

Quote: Originally Posted by Randall Raines (original)

This is an important risk factor that can catch many people out, especially if you change your job part way through a policy.

Another couple of incidents, someone doing a job for someone on their car, in his own car (all his work tools in the boot), while doing the job, his car keys fell out of his pocket, he carried on and finished the job without noticing that the keys where missing out of his pocket (someone didn't fail to notice though ), when he went in to wash his hands and to collect payment after putting everything (tools) in the boot, still without noticing that his keys where missing, however as he left he noticed his car had gone, tools and all .

After notifying his insurance, he actually said that he could tell that they didn't want to pay out from the start, saying that the keys where left in the vehicle, after winning that argument, explaining what had actually happened & why he was where he was at the time (the only way to get out of the 1st situation ) and to try and explain the couple of thousand (underestimated) pounds worth of tools in the boot (not just the jack & wheel-brace & other usual tools ), this then voided the full claim , so he actually tried to get paid out for just the car, only to be told "it doesn't work like that".

Someone that I know was stopped by the police, he was actually carrying something in the boot for work, however this looked suspicious to the police at the time, the police then contacted his insurance and they flatly refused that he was insured (covered on his policy) due to his load, this incident didn't even involve an accident or a claim and yet his insurance was voided, the same as above, he said that they (insurance) actually tried a couple of other excuses as well but then stuck on 1 (I think that they actually sent his premium back ).

Insurances can vary and most of them cover you to & from work (+ social, domestic & pleasure at dinner time, whichever one you indulge in ) you are supposed to notify them if you actually intend on using your vehicle in the course of your work (this applies to a private policy as well), it does not always cost any extra or cost much extra to do, you just need to notify them (insurance) for the extra risk factor , and to ensure that you're fully covered .

Don't lie to your insurance about what you actually do as a job just to get a cheaper quote as it can be a costly mistake (as you can be asked for proof) .

I totally did not think about this but i am currently in 6th year at school but obviously will be leaving straight after my exams, i think im still enrolled untill july at school so on the insurance it would be student-school but i have to wait until Aug to get my exam results to see if i will be accepted to uni. will i have to put myself as unemployed for this 3/4 weeks then change it to student-uni?

[Martin F]

It seems to me that there are two reasons why a claim may be refused:

1. Because of a failure to disclose a fact which would influence a prudent insurer whether to accept the risk for the premium; and

2. Because the particular loss is not covered by the policy.

In the first instance the policy is void. In the second instance the policy is not void but the loss is not covered.

In some of the instances cited above I am unclear which of these possible causes gave rise to the avoidance of the claim. I would find it helpful to understand this. Insurers cannot arbitarily refuse a claim; they have to have a sound legal reason.

I certainly agree with the basic advice which is to make full disclosure to insurers of the risk. eg the spec of the car and the circunstances of the driver(s); and secondly to read the policy documentation carefully.

[ben_jamin_Uk]

how about if you go over your annual estimated mileage? would that void your insurance?