[bsf99]

Hi

I have read all the debates about what constitutes a modification with great interest. I have rung around about 30 different insurance companies & 95% of them consider the chilli pack with sports plus suspension & the 17" alloys a modification. I have found one or two (what car & endsleigh) that say they don't class them as mod's. My question is what should I get from them to cover me just in case they try & change this if I ever make a claim? (As you can tell I have had some bad experiences with insurance companies).

Many thanks for your help

Brett

PS If anyone can recommend some good companies or brokers please feel free to point me in the right direction

[BruceK]

Quote:

Originally posted by bsf99
Hi

I have read all the debates about what constitutes a modification with great interest. I have rung around about 30 different insurance companies & 95% of them consider the chilli pack with sports plus suspension & the 17" alloys a modification. ...

That is some warped thinking! How can any MINI, unchanged from when it exited the factory doors in Oxford honestly be considered a modified car?

If the manufacturer built it, and since it's existed it's always been a certain way, what exactly would it be modified from - some earlier stage in the assembly process, such as when it had no wheels at all?

[MiniCooperS]

If you cannot get them to state on paperwork that all is declared, how about going to one of the insurers that 'record all calls for your protection' (or to screw you in the event of a claim!) Premium search/Hill House Hammond accepted my Chilli car as a'standard car' as long as it came from the factory with all mods. (I have 16" Chilli wheels though.)

[ScottyHP]

Legally speaking if a car is purchased with extras already fitted the car it is of 'manufacturers standard spec' as all extras are factory fitted and are not third party items or fitted post assembly. However from the point of view of of some insurance companies a standard car may be determined in the Mini's case to be the base model. Unfortunatly this is a grey area and there is no legigslation that I am aware of stating what is determined as a standard car. The Insurance companys can already invent premium figures thats why quotes vary so much, so its again up to the Insurer to decide what they class as standard or not. In my own opinion it is just another way to make yet more money from customers. The key to this is when asking for a quote first ask the chosen insurer to declare on the phone what they class as a standard car, in more case's than you think they will say something along the lines of 'a vehicle that is unchanged either cosmetically or one that has not had any performance/engine modifcations since first manufactured' The key is just shop around Im currently insured with Directline and am just going to the web site to get their definition of a standard car, I will report back soon with my findings, hopefully it will be good news.......

[ScottyHP]

sorry to double post but I have just rung my local insurance broker and he has told me so called mods/extras like S Spokes and the Chili Pack ARE classed as mods by most insurers however, this is not as bad as it sounds for example he says on average companys will charge you 10% of your total premium (before mods declared) so based on my recent quote of £505.55 even by declaring both Chili and S Spokes i will only incur a premium incerease of around a £100 thus increasing my premium to just over £600. Any increase in premium is bad for us but in my opinion its extremely important to make sure you are fully covered as personaly im spending £15000 on my cooper I wouldn't even consider loosing that for the sake of £100.

Hope this helps

[bsf99]

Hi

Thanks for all the replies. I have found that most insurers seem to class them as mod's - think you could get away with it if you didn't declare them but I don't want to take the risk. Will try Hill House Hammond & see what they say (have now found a good quote with the packs listed thankfully)

Brett

[Dom]

I did my insurance with Bell Direct over the internet. There was a question asking if the vehicle has been modified and, as far as I'm concerned, it hasn't. It's just the same as it left the factory (all-be-it a few more stone chips, speakers and clear indicators).

Oh, by the way, don't go with them - their customer service is a big bag of, well, guess...

Dom

[groovy_jr]

My insurance company has said my spec can be anything as long as it is from manufacturer and not exceeding £17k for entire car! My premium will be about £850! It is meant to be £2,500 but insurance company made a boo-boo by qouting for MINI One as Cooper...oh well....the premium still stands...unlucky for them!

[Kinster]

My premium is only £574! I mentioned that I'm gonna have a load of FACTORY options with it, including 17" alloys. They said that if it leaves the showroom with all the mods it's fine! Only when you add to it after you'll need to pay more!

[pob]

I had a lengthy discussion with my current insurer (Esure) the other day about this. After explaining the situation to them they agreed that they wouldn't class the chili pack as a mod, but needed to know what options were on the car for their records so that if anything happened they know what the replacement spec is. They were pretty good about it once I got past the sales people on the end of the phone and asked to speak to an underwriter about it. Quote came back with an annual premium of £370.

My advice - ask to speak to an underwriter - they're the ones who can make the decisions!

[ELISEBOY]

Tesco were fine with the wheels and Chilli as long as it came from the factory like that

Cost me £470 which I was pleased with

[ricardo]

As everyone is finding, the approach varies across different insurers. Some really do want to differentiate and charge more for optioned cars, whilst others simply don't understand what you are talking about so assume your car must be classed as "modified."

The proposal form, statement of fact, or record of your phone conversation forms the basis of your contract. Whether or not to disclose depends on the questions the insurer asks you. For example:-

Quote:

Has the car been altered/modified from the maker’s specification (including the addition of optional fit accessories such as spoilers, skirts, alloy wheels etc.?)

The above question is explicit about optional equipment so you would clearly have to inform the insurer about the Chili pack etc.

However, most insurers use vague questions about "changes to the maker's specification" or modifications. Some on-line quotation engines merely ask, "has the vehicle been modified?"

The matter of what constitutes a change or modification is far from clear. Consequently, insurers seeking to treat factory options as "modifications" should ask clearly understood questions.

An insurer seeking to decline a claim on the grounds that a policyholder failed to disclose a factory-fitted option will not succeed unless an explicit question has been asked and answered incorrectly.

There are two examples of rulings on this matter on the IOB website at the addresses below:-

http://www.theiob.org.uk/digest/m/mo..._vehicles.html
http://www.theiob.org.uk/bulletins/b.../section3.html

Ironically, MINI2-ers are disadvantaged by knowing "too much" about their cars!! Many second and third owners of MINIs won't have a clue about which wheels were fitted as standard. These future owners will not be able to give their insurers accurate information even when there is an explicit question. However, provided they've acted reasonably and are with a reputable insurer they'll still be insured.

For details of an insurer that expressly accepts alloys and bodykits at normal terms, please see the post below.

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthrea...&threadid=4967

[dietcokeplease]

I worked for a well known Insurance Company in my pimply years. As everyone is finding there is a ambiguity in deciding whether to declare options as aftermarket/dealerfit/factoryfit etc.

All I can say is that whatever the Insurance Company says, ignore it and attach a Schedule of Specification, Options and Modifcations and staple it to the proposal form.

That way the Insurer has the info to decide if they want to increase the rating, decline or accept cover. Put everything you can think of on it, no matter how trivial, because unfortunately Insurance Companies are buggers when it comes to claims and payouts (and believe me I know some arsey assessors and claims handlers).

For example your schedule should read something like this:

This is a Sched. of Spec. Options and Mods for MINI Cooper Reg.No: ABC123 for attachment to proposal dated 14th March 2002 with BIGCON Insurance Company plc as declaration of utmost good faith.

Car: MINI Cooper Reg No ABC123

Factory Fitted Options: Chili Pack, ASC+T, CD Boost etc etc

Dealer Fitted Options: Mudflaps, Clear Side Indicator Lenses

Other Mods: Remus rear exhaust, MINI2 sticker, Motorola V60 Hands Free Car Kit, JCW Badge etc etc

That way your car will be fully covered even if the insurance clerk overlooks it.

Direct Line are adding a 10% loading for the Chili pack

[ricardo]

Quote:

Originally posted by dietcokeplease
All I can say is that whatever the Insurance Company says, ignore it and attach a Schedule of Specification, Options and Modifcations and staple it to the proposal form.

That way the Insurer has the info to decide if they want to increase the rating, decline or accept cover.

This idea's fine in principle but it's no good communicating all this detail after you've accepted a quotation. If you do that, you'll be bound into a contract and the insurer may then come off cover when they see your spec and decide it's "non-standard." You may end up being charged at "short period rates" for the hassle of setting up a policy which has been aborted. And you'll be forever disclosing that you've had a policy cancelled!!

Most insurance quotes are obtained by phone and the operator at the insurer/broker end is typing your data into a computer system. As soon as you start mentioning the Chili pack or optional extras, you end up with a "tick" in the modified box on the system. In most cases, that spells either a significantly higher premium, a declinature or a "refer to underwriter" message.

It's a difficult situation because if you are totally honest during the initial enquiry stage you may never get as far as seeing a proposal form since many insurers will simply decline to quote.

From what pob has said, it seems Esure has got the right idea but, as he's indicated, you'll probably need to insist on speaking to someone with underwriting authority.