CVT driving technique

[nonsequitur]

I asked but I'll be gone for a week so an answer may not post for awhile. Good question.

[john'smini]

Quote: Originally Posted by nonsequitur

How about driving technique hints? Has anyone put the CVT through its paces at a track? At an autocross? I haven't yet.

We're struggling with figuring out how to drive it effectively.

I've had manual gearboxes all my life, so I mash on the throttle [too much], or lift off the throttle, expecting weight transfer. The problems are most pronounced in low speed acceleration situations, the car wants to help me too much. An autocross will bee tough?

Great fun today in medium speed (40mph+) open corners, in the wet. In SD, I could easily throttle-steer my way around. An honest hoot. In this situation there was momentum on the car, so all I was asking from the throttle inputs was weight transfer, not speed change. The CVT worked beautifully, held tightly to a "gear", and gave me weight transfer to steer around the corner. Fun!

My daughter and I have autocrossed my MINI several times with fair to great results.

We start in sd 1 and than she does the flip to drive and then back to sd ( to get a better launch) while I stay in the shift mode.

Our times are about equal (with hers about .7 sec. per run faster.

My worst run was when I forgot to turn off the dynamic stability, that really limited my ability to throw the car in the twisty's.

I talked with several experienced drivers who watched my runs to get some guide to improvement. Their final consensus was the since that I had autoXed in the past in a rear wheel drive car was a large part of the problem. They recommended that I spend a lot more seat time especially in the slow 180's.

All in all it has been a great experience with the cvt trans and what I like the most is that you cannot force a downshift either on purpose or by accident and damage your pieces.
john

[nonsequitur]

Upon our return a message waited from ZF saying that the ecoTronic VT1F CVT has no specific break-in requirements "but it is always better to break-in mechanical components at low load". This ties in nicely with the MINI break-in process.

ZF also suggests that "driving in D will be the best way to break-in our transmission" because of the MINI engine rpm restriction, not some specific ZF requirement for the gearbox.

[JJV-MA]

Quote: Originally Posted by nonsequitur

How about driving technique hints? Has anyone put the CVT through its paces at a track? At an autocross?

We autocrossed our Cooper CVT for the first time this past weekend. We actually just completed the 1250 mile break-in period on the way to the autocross site. So we transitioned straight from break-in to pedal-to-the-metal acceleration and threshhold braking.

I found that the biggest challenge I had was the need to carry speed through the course. Whenever I had to unexpectedly scrub off speed, the CVT punished me with what felt like neverending hesitation as it searched for the "correct" RPMs when I reapplied the throttle.

As a corollary to this, I discovered that left-foot braking is PARAMOUNT in keeping the CVT revs up as I went around tight corners. Keep the throttle applied and left-foot brake accordingly to scrub off the necessary speed. When I let the revs come down around the turns, I felt I lost precious time on the straights or fast sweepers as the engine worked its way back up to the sweet spot of the power band.

Still a lot that needs to be discovered...

[nonsequitur]

Quote: Originally Posted by JJV-MA

Still a lot that needs to be discovered...

Now that's a quote I can identify with! This is one place to lay out your ideas, because we're all looking for the help that will flow from experience. Thanks.

[john'smini]

Re: autocross and the cvt
I have been autoxing my mini and I am still learning how to retrain my self from rear wheel drive.
Some of the things that I have found that worked:
1.Turning off the DSC is manditory!
2. I use the speptronic mode rather than SD because it gives me better control of the rpm's in the corners. I try to avoid the dedent during normal runs. I try to upshift to 2 before the red line to avoid the computer slowing the engine down during the auromatic up-shift. If you feel that you need more torque/rpm push past the dedent and if applicble the cvt will downshift and then hang on! As you let up (off the dedent) the cvt will upshift.
3. Learn left foot braking, trail breaking, and parking brake turns. I am still working on this whenever I can find a suitable place. This technique allows me to hang the tail out and keep the front wheels pointed in the right direction. As I said I am still working on this as it is not natural to me but with the passage of time and lots of practice I hope that it will become natural.
Hope that this helps.
I found this link which explains left foot braking. www.rallyracingnews.com/lfb.html
john

[sleslie]

After reading some of these posts, I'm nervous about the CVT. Is it complicated? I wanted to get away from all that shifting with a manual, but seems like I'll still be shifting, somewhat. By the way, I have never driven the CVT.

I hope I made the right choice....

[nonsequitur]

No, it is not complicated.

The CVT-equipped cars give you a very wide set of choices to drive them. D (or SD) is a very straight forward experience, if that is what you want. The Steptronic gear selections allow for a more "manual" experience, with decisions needed on what is best at the moment.

As you've read in this thread, we have discovered just how capable these cars can be -- all of that capability available as a choice, as an option, if you want to use it.

You'll have lots of FUN in your MINI. Don't be concerned, be excited!

[shputz]

Quote: Originally Posted by sleslie

After reading some of these posts, I'm nervous about the CVT. Is it complicated? I wanted to get away from all that shifting with a manual, but seems like I'll still be shifting, somewhat. By the way, I have never driven the CVT.

I hope I made the right choice....

You definitely made the right choice , and a mere 30 minutes in traffic will convince you of that!! Driving the CVT is very simple if you want it to be - just leave it in D or SD. If you're up for a little more fun, shift! My normal mode is shifting into SD at lights, then flicking to D when I'm up to speed, and it's second nature now. I'm sure Kim has never taken it out of D, despite prodding from our son!

The CVT is a technological marvel - steady, reliable, and tons of fun. I read a lot about it on these forums before I ordered mine, and I couldn't be happier! You can't go wrong with ANY MINI!

Happy motoring,
Jim

[Vanwall]

Quote: Originally Posted by sleslie

After reading some of these posts, I'm nervous about the CVT. Is it complicated? I wanted to get away from all that shifting with a manual, but seems like I'll still be shifting, somewhat. By the way, I have never driven the CVT.

I hope I made the right choice....

Don't be nervous - you can leave it in D or SD and not shift EVER, and still have an excellent motoring experience. If you wanna shift a little, you can go right ahead. If you get a chance, drive a CVT as soon as possible. Have fun!

BCNU,
Rob in Dago

[Sejanus]

Yeah, we're just trying to figure out ways to maximize the fun and performance of the CVT. It's still a great system to drive even if you never figure out every little element. Most of the time I just drive in D with a flip to SD for a bit of passing power. Works great, love the car.

[nonsequitur]

I'll apologize for sticking a fluff post into this thread, but this will be my 1,000th posting on MINI2.com! I find it remarkable actually.

The whole experience of meeting all of you here, to work through how these interesting CVT-equipped cars function, basically started with this very thread some 16,000 Views and 280 Replies earlier. Thank you for all your support, and critical contributions.

[Fdlove91101]

I know this question has been asked, I just got my MINI, and I have automatic CVT transmission. Can some please post a detailed way of using the shifter so i can manually shift. im nervous about damaging the car as I have never drove a manual before. I know I probably sound stupid, but why do you shift, and when do you shift, and you shift up for what, and down for what. If someone could please help me, I would really appreciate it, as I love driving my MINI, but would like to have a little more fun with it. Thank you very much

[nonsequitur]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fdlove91101

Can some please post a detailed way of using the shifter so i can manually shift.

You should read through some of the threads here in the CVT Forum where many people have contributed their experiences and advice. Your question is very similar to the frustration that prompted this thread to get started; the MINI Manual does a poor job of explaining how to use the gearbox.

1) Download the CVT Functionality Map to give you a "picture" of how the ZF VT1F Gearbox is configured.

2) Read through a couple of the other threads, starting at the beginning. The effort will reward because you'll discover ideas like the 1-D-SD Flick that some people enjoy. This is a very capable gearbox, and it protects itself, so have some fun.

3) Here's just a few of my posts (so I don't play favorites) in this thread related to your question. All those missing numbers in between on this list are the good ideas, debate, and valuable contribution from the group of owners who built this Forum into something useful. More than 16,000 Views from very good people!

5 - re-explains the Selections, after I had it significantly wrong in Post 1.
18 - covers the driving style in each Selection.
21 - expands on the use of Steptronic.
30 - You can't break the gearbox in Steptronic.
74 - Left foot braking works.
82 - Launch technique.
87 - Steptronic at speed on the track.
92 - More reasons why the Cooper CVT works so well.
137 - Target Speed.
144 - Comments on the results of dyno testing linked in 142
146, 150 - Cornering technique in Steptronic.
182 - Driving uses of CVT engine braking.
183 - A lengthy description of technique on the track.
225 - Follow-up on technique for the track.
235 - Launch, Starting-out from stop.
249 - Detailed response on Steptronic technique.
254 - Summary of the CVT Functionality Map.
261 - Mastering the Asphalt Arts.
273 - CVT Break-in.

[Vanwall]

Quote: Originally Posted by nonsequitur

I'll apologize for sticking a fluff post into this thread, but this will be my 1,000th posting on MINI2.com! I find it remarkable actually.

The whole experience of meeting all of you here, to work through how these interesting CVT-equipped cars function, basically started with this very thread some 16,000 Views and 280 Replies earlier. Thank you for all your support, and critical contributions.

You're quite welcome! You have been one the most influential people on this board, especially regarding the wonderful CVT! THANK YOU, for all your help!

BCNU,
Rob in Dago