CVT driving technique

[nonsequitur]

By the time we worked out this throttle detent characteristic in mid afternoon, our focus was on SD. So the specific comment was in SD, not a Steptronic "gear" and not in D.

I'm still confused by it all too, which is one reason why I posted. To drive this wonderful car well, I (we all) need to know how it works.

Throttle modulation is simply not an easy linear thing in the CVT. The kickdown detent position introduces inputs to the transmission and/or engine programming that don't appear in the Manual (I'm re-checking that one today) and certainly wasn't part of the delivery checkout, just as the transmission functionality wasn't.

I had this car really working in the rain yesterday. It was so much fun, and much more capable than I expected, but this praise for the car is coming true only by grinding into the details of how it works.

[jonesl]

I have a CVT, and so far have used it in D mode and SD mode, but I haven't tried the steptronics mode. I'm reading these posts about trying to figure out the best combination of gears and throttle, etc. during turns, rain, and you name it. As a lowly commuter, not using my car for racing, I'm not sure I need to experiment with everything you're all trying, but I would like to know how to take advantage of whatever the car has to offer. I just don't understand what you're all talking about!

Can someone explain why I would want to use one mode over another when driving on the turnpike to work? Or when driving on city streets? I have noticed that once I got past the break-in point my combined city-highway mileage went from around 21 mpg to almost 26 mpg -- but at the same time I'm noticing that the car is feeling a bit more sluggish when I step on the gas -- like it's playing catch-up. I generally drive in D. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

[nonsequitur]

Since I'm guilty of starting this thread, I'll comment upfront but, like you, I'm looking for input from other's experiences and technical understanding.

What I would say we've found so far is that the Cooper CVT is a much more capable car, and a lot more fun to drive, than many people initially believed it would be. It's a hidden jewel in the model lineup.

It's also an early example a coming future for most new cars on the road: a computer-managed transmission and engine that delivers lower emissions, more power, and protection of the customer's investment by preventing serious machine-killing mistakes.

The situation you describe is something like mine, so I'll say what I'm doing now as a result of all this banter.

1.
Drive delivers the best gas mileage, period. As a result, I move to "D" whenever I'm cruising on the freeway, or driving calm city streets between stop lights. You'll observe the tachometer is almost 900rpm lower in D; lower revs uses less gas. Why spend ANY money if it doesn't do something useful for you is the thought here, but there are some counter arguments. But, the computer is trying to keep the rpms lower in "D" so more transmission adjustments are needed which may be the "catching up" you mentioned. That was my iniitial frustration with the car.

2.
SD (Sport program or SportDrive) makes the driving characteristics of the CVT much crisper, tighter, more definite and responsive. I use this mode much more now that we "found it" with the help of people here in the Forum.

I SELECT SD (physically move it out of D) for stop lights, traffic situations where passing reaction time would help me, and when sharper behavior seems correct. It is easy to move back and forth between modes, and there is no technical reason not to move back and forth any time it seems correct.

Both D and SD gives you the "continuously variable transmission" characteristic which is unusual and fun for passengers who have never seen it before.

Acceleration is better in SD than in D. 0-60mph time for the CVT will be about 10.5sec in D, and about 9.5sec on SD, maybe even better.

3.
Steptronic (an electronic "manual" transmission) is simply fun. It also allows more controlled engine braking (not using the brakes, on hills as an example). Steptronic gives an enhanced ability to "hold a gear" for situations (like a series of corners) where driving with deliberate throttle inputs may be better.

4.
With each of these modes, carefully using the drive-by-wire electronic throttle pedal will change the way the transmission works. The best way to demonstrate this to yourself is from a standing start to freeway speeds. First, just mash the pedal all the way to floor (past the "kickdown" detent): the transmission spools up with a "shifting" characteristic. Next, try the same thing with the pedal held at the detent (resistance point) and the engine comes up to about 5000rpm, and holds there, while all the acceleration is achieved by the transmission with no real "shifting."

5.
So I fear I've NOT met your request here!

I now use "D" for as many situations as I can to build up the average mileage referenced in your note. Use "SD" from stop lights, and any situation where you want more "control." And, use Steptronic to have fun with your passengers and to use engine braking for hill descents, slowing behind trucks, or playing in the twisties.

Let's see what others have to say.

[jonesl]

Thanks - I"m starting to understand.

Up until my last car before the MINI I had always driven a manual transmission, but I'm not sure how to start using the steptronic. If I'm already moving, and I put the CVT into SD mode and then start pushing it forward or backward, is there something to indicate which mock gear I'm supposed to be in? I'm used to knowing where I am when driving in real manual. (I don't want to have the car do something crazy while I'm in traffic, and there's not really anywhere where I can practice!)

[Sejanus]

Quote:

Originally posted by jonesl
Thanks - I"m starting to understand.

Up until my last car before the MINI I had always driven a manual transmission, but I'm not sure how to start using the steptronic. If I'm already moving, and I put the CVT into SD mode and then start pushing it forward or backward, is there something to indicate which mock gear I'm supposed to be in? I'm used to knowing where I am when driving in real manual. (I don't want to have the car do something crazy while I'm in traffic, and there's not really anywhere where I can practice!)

Look on your speedometer. Where it normally shows a D or SD for Drive and Sports mode the number of the gear you are "in" will appear. Personally, in normal commute driving I usually stay in Drive at lights just for the sake of fuel economy.

[nonsequitur]

Steptronic works as you state, and you can't mess it up because the computer will not execute shifts that don't produce logical useful results.

If you move to SD and then pull back once, the computer then displays the "gear" (1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6) it has selected for that speed in the speedometer where "SD" had been shown. You can then select up or down from there depending on what you want to do. There is NO concern about forcing it because it will only change if the new choice is logical for the speed you are driving.

This will quickly feel like the manual you are accustomed to.

Starts from a stop light will automatically be in "2" unless you select "1". I'm not certain it makes any difference, but try it and let us know. This is the kind of stuff we are trying to document.

[cooper4us]

I have started the car in 1st gear in Steptronic mode and there is definetely more torque down below. It feels exactly the same as a real 1st gear in a manual stick shift.

Starting in 2nd gear also produces good results but when you do start in 2nd is not to lose too much momentum, for example when approaching a red light that suddenly turns green on you almost at the same time you are almost coming to a full stop.

This CVT never ceases to amaze me.

[cooper4us]

The CVT has fail safe programming, hence, the computer will never let you do anything that can hurt the transmission.

[nfo]

do you guys think that using steptronic all the time would hurt the trans, or put more stress on the car in the long run?

[Sejanus]

I don't see why it would.

[nonsequitur]

It should make no difference at all to the transmission. I've been searching for the short phrase to use to describe the transmissions programming benefit: bullet-proof, mistake-proof, fail-safe, ...?

Also, depending on how you drive it, there is a small argument for actual benefit from using Steptronic a lot: you will probably generate more engine braking in Steptronic than the other modes. That may create a different lubrication environment (more oil blowby at the rings) for the motor, at the expense of lower gas mileage. I'm not sure about this one!

[nfo]

hmmmm.
if you guys hear anything, let me know!
lower gas mileage isn't a problem, the fun is worth it!

[jonesl]

In the last couple of days I decided to try using the steptronic mode (so far had only used D and SD). It seems a bit jerky when I move between gears -- should I be taking my foot off the gas when I switch? Should I be stepping on the gas more? I'm used to dealing with a clutch when I shift gears so this is a whole new experience!

[cooper4us]

I would lift my foot off the gas pedal in a similar fashion as if you were shifting gears in a stick shift car (Press the clutch, left off the gas and so on).

I heard that March 2003 production MINI CVTs onwards will have the steering wheel mounted steptronic paddles. Can anyone confirm this?

[nonsequitur]

This is an excellent technique question, Lisa, exactly what we are trying to figure out here. Thanks for pushing the questions, and the responses from those who have experience.

There is NO mechanical reason that you must or should lift off the throttle at the shift selection point with the CVT. It is OK (checked with MINI) to make "shifts" at full or partial throttle.

But it may be a smoother shift to lift slightly.

Or, lifting may cause another software map response that makes the shift worse, since the computer would see this action as "input". I haven't gotten this far yet.

In fact, I'm quite interested in what happens. This is very similar to throttle modulation in a corner where the transmission seemed to get confused with too much throttle movement.

Let us know what you find out. You can't hurt the transmission either way.