Will not start period....NOT Cold Start Issue

[Silly]

Hello all...

Here is an issue that my wife and I are having w/our Electric Blue Cooper S that I have yet to see posted on this site. We took delivery of our new baby on 15 May 02 and since that time we have experienced the cold start issue, (that started around 1400 miles and while annoying is not of great concern), as well as a few other minor things.

The problem that we are haveing that is an issue for us is that on quite a few occasions (at least6) since delivery our Mini just won't start!!! It does not matter what time of day it is or the weather. We go out to Mini, admire it for a moment, get in, put the key in the ignition, turn it to the run position and everything is normal. The idiot lights and the radio all come on, you can hear the fuel pump prime and all of that. Now comes the issue...turn the key to the start position and as they should all of the afore mentioned interior functions cease but nothing else. I mean nothing....The starter motor does not spin up, the solenoid does not click, grind, chatter or anything else... nothing.

When we let the key back to the run position all of the idiot lights, Ect.. go back to their normal lit state. Eventually after waiting and cursing and going over all of the electrical components that you can find on a Mini the car will start without realy having done anything......go figure!

After calling our dealer and having them say that they had not heard of this issue yet we decided to do a little trouble shoooting before bringing it in to them...tried all three keys thinking the problem might be a bad chip, no change. I verfiyed that the clutch SW is functioning on these no start occasions using a multi meter, it is working. I checked all of the fuses and relays to make sure that they are seated tightly and they are. I also checked all of the visible wiring harness connections to make sure that they are all plugged in and locked in place, and they are.

We then scheduled a service appointment for this issue and brought Mini to the dealer, (which is an hour and a half drive, one way) so that they could look into the problem. explained the prob. in detail to the service rep and explained all of the things that I had checked on the various occasions when we were stranded here or there while Mini would not start. He said that they would look into it and let us know what they found... After a couple of days of calling them for an answer we were told that the computer had no trouble codes in it so they put a call into the Mini dealer round table for an answer.

This was a month and a half ago they have not heard anything from the round table.....we just dropped Mini off for her second visit to the for the same issue and a few new seemingly electrical related probs and I hope to speak with our service rep and or even better have my wife speak to him and have her explain how to trouble shoot problems using real live technicians in the shop. We love our Mini but we are starting to dislike out dealer.

Please let me know if anyone else has had a similar issue and if so what the fix was so that maybe we can give the service guys a clue. I do understand that this is a new vehicle and that there are going to be bugs in them but I think that waiting several months to hear for the dealer round table on the issue is not the only thing that the service dept. could and should be doing...

Thanks for letting me vent.

Silly

[m1les]

This is a different one. I can only offer a suggestion that may or may not help but here goes.

The car is not seeing a fault code because there is nothing actually wrong. This would imply that there is a loose connection between ignition key switch and its circuitry or the immobiliser is not functioning correctly.

Hopefully there wont be a next time but if there is, try "jiggling" the key in the start position to see what happens. There may be a fault in the keyswitch itself. The immobiliser is in the key and as such it just needs to be inserted in the lock.

Best of luck.

[Sashadog]

;ih;

[BruceK]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sashadog
I hate to state the obvious. Please don't hammer on me too much. It sounds like what happens when you don't have the clutch depressed all the way. Could it be a clutch-switch issue?

I hate to state the obvious, too, but did you read where Silly wrote:

" ...I verfiyed that the clutch SW is functioning on these no start occasions using a multi meter, it is working. I checked all of the fuses and relays to make sure that they are seated tightly and they are. I also checked all of the visible wiring harness connections to make sure that they are all plugged in and locked in place, and they are... "

[Sashadog]

Oops, Well good luck. Hope the braintrust hear can help.

Cheers

[snoopy]

Hi A few things

What's this clutch Switch thing? As I watched a person try and start a Cooper S with the car still in gear and all it did was gave the dealer one hell of a fright as it nearly hit the wall in front as it surged forward on the started motor. Is this SW a USA thing only?

I have had some dealing with a Honda that did similar things. What we found was that a certain set of keys use by the wife when wearing certain jewellery cause the keys not to correctly identify to the car hence the car would not start.

So is their any pattern to it, only happens to you? Only one set of keys? (did read you tried all sets) And the times that it did finally start for you did you sit and wait in the car or did you take the keys out of the ignition?

The best test I can think for you to do (or some else might be able to answer it) Is what does the MINI do when it does not received the correct code from the chip in the key fob. I.e. the engine immobiliser is still engage. When this happens does it produce the same results that you have i.e. all the lights but no starter motor action, or does the starter turn over just the car won't start. This is one of the first things that would be handy to cross of the list of possible reasons to why this is happening.

[Silly]

Thanks so far for the ideas.

To answer a couple of snoppy's questions.. There is no difference if I try to start the car or my wife tries to start it, which would tend to rule out the jewlrey thing...

As for a pattern, the first two times were a Tuesday morning, I had a 9am dentist appointment and was tryaing to sleep in and my wife was going to work earley, but that is as much of a pattern as there is. The rest of the occasions have been completely random, day, night, rain, shine, ect....

on some of the occasions Mini won't start simply turning the key to the off position and back to start several times will get her to fire up, other times it can be as long as a half an hour or so of trying the on and off thing a few times, checking all of the previously mentioned troubleshooting steps, trying the three different keys, sitting and saying nice things to Mini and eventually she will fire up.

I would ask as well if anyone can give some insight into how the immobilizer actually works. Does it require a period of time to reset if it does not sense the correct key?

Thanks again,

Silly

P.S.
Snoopy,
here in the USA all new vehicles are required to have a safety switch on the clutch so that you have to depress the clutch to start the car, (or truck, Motorbike, Ect...) if the gearbox is engaged. this avoids mishaps like the one you wrote about....

[snoopy]

How about location? Only on your driveway, only in your garage or anywhere?

[BruceK]

Quote:

Originally posted by snoopy
..What's this clutch Switch thing? As I watched a person try and start a Cooper S with the car still in gear and all it did was gave the dealer one hell of a fright as it nearly hit the wall in front as it surged forward on the started motor. Is this SW a USA thing only?...

Yes, it's a US/Canada regulation to prevent the car from being started in gear and jumping forward or backward. It was mandated about 15 years ago.

I think the switch is also used to make sure the cruise control disengages if the clutch pedal is pressed.

[noahe]

Quote:

Originally posted by BruceK


Yes, it's a US/Canada regulation to prevent the car from being started in gear and jumping forward or backward. It was mandated about 15 years ago.

I think the switch is also used to make sure the cruise control disengages if the clutch pedal is pressed.

Yes on both counts, and I find the switch is annoying. The mats wad-up and you have to mash the clutch to get it to start.

The MINI is also weird, in that after you've tried to start it, or stalled it, you can't just re-start it by turning the key clock-wise again, but rather you have to turn it back one detent, then forward one detent, and then forward again to start it.

[BruceK]

Quote:

Originally posted by noahe


Yes on both counts, and I find the switch is annoying. The mats wad-up and you have to mash the clutch to get it to start.

The MINI is also weird, in that after you've tried to start it, or stalled it, you can't just re-start it by turning the key clock-wise again, but rather you have to turn it back one detent, then forward one detent, and then forward again to start it.

Just like VWs in that respect. (and maybe BMWs?)

[Silly]

Back at ya snoopy...

Location does not make a difference.....anytime, anywhere as the saying goes..

Silly

[MiNiGuY]

Do you have anything magnetic on your keyring?
Do you store your keys near anything magnetic?
Do you keep more than one MINI key on the same keyring?

The above could cause the problems you mention. It's unlikely that this will end up being the problem but it's worth checking.

[Mugami]

Im pretty sure you checked this but.. disconnect the battery clean both the termals and the post. some time factories put the anticorosion grease in there which is not suppose to prevent electric energy to pass but to help it. Unforturnaly thats not always the case. The connection may seem tight but when engaging the starter it looses the connection and all power quits for a second. then when you return to the standard on position all power returns. this will not cause the computer to trip any codes. Ive had this simular problem on 2 other cars I had in the pass. May help may not. From your ealier post I would have guessed you checked that but im putting my 2 cents worth in any way

[sjbartnik]

I agree with checking the battery terminal connections. I've had this happen before with the exact same symptoms and found the battery positive terminal to be just slightly loose. It's tight enough to get power but when you go to really put a load on it, it's not good enough.

Also, with the key thing, thank goodness for this design! I love it. Volkswagen has had that ignition switch design forever, and it is for that reason that you will never hear the horrible shriek as you turn the key to start while the engine is already running.